My thoughts on the RNP

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Dot

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I judge a product on multiple criteria: 1. How does the unit sound? 2. How does the unit look and feel from a design perspective? 3. What's the overall "vibe" of the unit and what's it like interacting with it and using it? 4. Where does the unit fall in the market as far as price point and price vs performance. 5. What is the company's relationship with the market.

On several levels I have a problem w/ the RNP. First of all, the launch was continously delayed and when it finally hit production, it was limited and often taking weeks or months for people to get. Secondly, FMR Audio never responded to any inquiries I made about the RNP. I deal with contacting companies on a daily basis and FMR Audio is numero uno on my list of most unresponsive companies. Thirdly, so I finally get my hands on an RNP - and if it's bitchin', of course I'll rave about it. But it's not bitchin'. It's a little, dinky plastic box. Everything is plastic. From an ergonomic and design perpective, it's one of the most unpleasant boxes I've ever dealt with. The gain increments of 6db are unacceptable. The experience of turning the gain knob in the hand borders on humiliating. The 1/4" outs - on a $500 box - are unacceptable.

How does it sound? It's advertised on the FMR Audio website as being "transparent and neutral". That is simply not true.

Look, I think for $500 in 2003, people in the market for a mic pre should be and are getting more. As it is, the RNP is a $500 unit - which is a good two weeks work for the average person. I don't think you get $500 worth of box.


What's cool about the RNP? The actual preamp is good and has sort of a vintage flavor that's different. Is it $500 good? For two channels - yes. Does it blow me away? No. Sorry. If someone says, "Hey, I've got $500 and I need a pre." I'll ask if they really need two channels, because $500 will get you into a Grace 101 - which is significantly more pre than the RNC, and the 101 really is transparent and neutral. There are also several new units coming on to the market in the coming months - including the Studio Projects VTB-2, the SPL GoldMike and - just released - the Summit Audio 2BA-221 tube pre.

$500 for 2 channels of really good pres is in such a no-man's land, and no one has yet built a pre at that price neighborhood that really nails it. The slot is still open as far as I'm concerned.

FMR Audio spends a lot of text apologizing on its site about the RNP. Look, for another few bucks -$25 at best - you could put the actual pres in a well-designed chassis and use metal connectors.

There's way too much on the market for a dinky design like this to go for $500. Take the price down to $179 and then I'll say, yes, the RNP is as good in the pre amp world as the RNC is in the compressor world.

I do not "highly recommend" the RNP. I do recommend it to the person who must have 2 channels of good pres and has a $500 budget and does not plan on adding more pres in the next year. And to that same person I'd also say wait a few months because there's some new boxes coming on the market. I'd recommend the RNP to someone who already has several pres and is looking for another color in the pallette.

Gear has to totally blow me away, period. Or I don't recommend it. Overall, the RNP as a total product in its price range does not blow me away.

_____________

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
Thanks for the insightful review Dot.
My suspicions are comfirmed.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience, but I think maybe you are hitting the crack pipe a little hard :)
Truth is, I've gone through several preamps and considered many, worked with many. Ok, its not totally clean and neutral. It DOES have a flavor. A very good flavor. It does have an open top end that even the Grace doesnt touch.
The box is sturdy enough, its designed for studio use, not to be thrown in a truck and hauled around.
Of all this stuff, only sound matters, and it sounds great and does great things to lots of stuff. I have API to compare it to, and its not as colored as the API. Does it sound as good? Certainly.
Have you ever called FMR? They call you back instantly if they dont answer in the 1st place.
I had a problem with one, wrote to him, didnt leave a phone number, he called the RETAILER, found my phone number, called me, and had another one in my hands on the other side of the country the very next day. I call that good ass service.
No, they dont answer email worth a shit.
At $475 even for 2 channels, its a far more intelligent buy than the Grace, since it sounds better and you get twice as many channels.
But, thats all opinion now, isnt it? To each his own I guess, but from what I gather, you wouldnt hesitate to put a C1 in the same class as a great U67, or an HHB in the same class as a Neve, so I have to take it all with a grain of salt. I think you should track some more with it and only consider the sound. It sounds really really nice.
Peace.
 
Not arguing with you, Dan....

...but it must have SOMETHING going for it if it's in Fletcher's catalog! ;)
 
Dot's comments are a response to my post over at Harmony Central, and he pretty much pasted his whole answer to my post here as a stand-alone diatribe. In another thread, Dan pretty much said the RNP was a noisy, cheap toy, no better than an Audio Buddy, and Larry Seyer and I both got on his case about that.

I guess I should paste my post here as well, so that you can see what he was responding to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lolli brought up a great point when he said, "Ya gotta buy one or try one and decide for yourself or decide which "pro" you believe".

It's a question that's been bothering me for a lotta years now (ever since I got suckered into buying a pair of Tannoy System Twos, based on a great magazine review). Since then, I've been gun shy about a lot of gear I see advertised that gets great reviews.

I've owned two Alesis products in my entire 50+ years as a musician/engineer: a 3630 (which immediately got put to use as a doorstop), and a pair of Monitor Ones (which were infinitely more usable than the Tannoys).

The closest pro audio dealer is about 200 miles away, and there aren't many people in this town that I trust when it comes to buying equipment that I've never heard. So, for me, it comes down to which "pro" do I believe?

Well, first of all, I believe me. I go to the AES and NAMM shows and I try to look at what's available, and talk to the people that designed the units to get a feel for what they're trying to do. Since I've known a lot of these people for about 50 years or so, I get a lot of inside information they might not want to share with the outside world. Sometimes, they'll send me stuff to test in my studio.

I rely on old friends, like Fletcher, Bob Olhsson, George Massenburg, Stephen Paul, and Al Schmitt for straight answers to questions I have about equipment they're familiar with.

I also reply on new friends, like Brent Casey, Alan Hyatt, Dan Kennedy, Mark McQuilken, Karl Winkler, Mike Rivers, and Taylor Johnson (to name just a few) to give me the straight scoop on their products, as one ex-manufacturer to another. In return, I try to help out with whatever engineering and marketing knowledge I might have that they can use.

I'm now also friends with people like Scott Dorsey, Ty Ford, Dave Martin, and a bunch of magazine reviewers, so I get inside stuff that never appears in the magazine articles.

All of us differ on what we like and dislike, but I've learned how to filter that out. Scott Dorsey doesn't happen to like the Coles 4038; Fletcher and I do, so when Scott blasts the 4038, I just filter that out, based on my own opinion of the mic.

So back to Lolli's original statement, which "pro" should you trust? I'd say first of all, you might want to give some creedance to someone who has used all the products they're talking about. Not just for a day or two, but someone who's lived with the products for a while.

Second, what's in it for them? If it seems like their reviews are all weighted towards one or two particular companies, that would start me wondering. Especially if they review by blasing the product's nearest competition.

"Just like" is another warning flag for me. That's when I wanna know exactly what their credentials are before I accept another word from them. What other equipment do they actually own that they're comparing this to? Are they relying on their memory from the last time they used the gear they're comparing it to?

Finally, are their tests credible? Do some of their results match my own results on equipment we're talking about? Do their results make sense? I've been testing audio equipment since the early '50s, and some claims raise the hairs on the back of my neck. Psuedo-science really makes me mad. When I first tested the RNC, I used the $5,000 Neutrik A-2 test rig to check it out. How are some of these other people testing equipment or mics? What signal chain are they listening thru when they make their judgements?

Lolli makes a great point; I wish I had a great answer for him, unfortunately, I don't.
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Anyway, that was my post, which Dot responded to above. The funny thing is that I generally agree with a lot of Dan's findings, although he tends to go too lavish in his praise, at least for my tastes. At least he balances that somewhat with his savage attacks on equipment that he doesn't like.

I try to present more balanced views, based on as much actual testing as I can do, but that's really a difference in style, rather than content. Dan looked at the RNP and judged it a "toy". That's his right, and only his opinion.

I listened to it and measured it and found the damn thing was flat out to 200 kiloHertz. It dropped down to -3dB at 300kHz, only because Mark put in an 18 dB per octave Butterworth filter with it's knee at 300 kHz. That explained the tremendous articulation it had, and why it sounded as open as it did.

Having Rupert Neve as one of your friends (and neighbors) certainly hasn't hurt Mark McQuilken in the least. I know Rupert thinks very highly of the RNP. Dot doesn't; Fletcher and I do. But, it's only my opinion.

So who's review should you trust? I can't answer that. Only you can make that call. If my other reviews coincide with your experience, that might be one good indicator. If Dot's previous reviews correspond to your own real world experiences, then trust him on this one as well.

In the end, we must all live with the choices we make. If you depend on others for help in choosing equipment, you should weigh their statements very carefully. And understand where they are coming from, in terms of experience, expertise, and biases.
 
Amen, Harvey.


Michael Jones said:
Thanks for the insightful review Dot.
My suspicions are comfirmed.
Click to expand...

That easily? C'mon, man, even Fletcher likes it... :)
 
As Dan is using my RNP that I loaned him for his Listening Sessions because Mark McQuilken wouldn't loan him one, I thought I should give my impressions of the unit as we are talking about the same exact one.

I agree with two things in his comments. The RNP does feel like a toy when it's in your hands as compared to a Grace 101 or other quality mic preamp. Also, the gain steps should not be as large as they are. To me, I'd want the gain stages smaller to minimize self-noise. I disagree with the rest of Dan's comments. I highly recommend the RNP.

Listen to this:

It's a project tracked entirely through an RNP.

The RNP sounds cool. To me, that's all that matters. Harvey was kind enough to consent back in August to let me run his review of the RNP on Mojo Pie. In owning an RNP, I've found Harvey's comments to be pretty much right on and his review very reliable.

BTW, I also highly recommend the Grace 101. It's a fantastic unit on a lot of things and a nice contrast to the color of the RNP. As for under $1,000 mic preamps, I also highly recommend the Sytek MPX4Aii and the Great River MP-1NV.

--Steve, publisher of Mojo Pie
www.piemusic.com
 
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ozraves said:
As Dan is using my RNP that I loaned him for his Listening Sessions because Mark McQuilken wouldn't loan him one, I thought I should give my impressions of the unit as we are talking about the same exact one.

I agree with two things in his comments. The RNP does feel like a toy when it's in your hands as compared to a Grace 101 or other quality mic preamp. Also, the gain steps should not be as large as they are. To me, I'd want the gain stages smaller to minimize self-noise. I disagree with the rest of Dan's comments. I highly recommend the RNP.

The RNP sounds cool. To me, that's all that matters. Harvey was kind enough to consent back in August to let me run his review of the RNP on Mojo Pie. In owning an RNP, I've found Harvey's comments to be pretty much right on and his review very reliable.

--Steve, publisher of Mojo Pie
www.piemusic.com
Click to expand...
Steve, I'm glad you're satisfied with your RNP. As far as Dan's comments, it was never my intention to get into a pissing match with Dan, since I respect his opinions greatly.

I felt his first post on the RNP went too far, and I tried to post a response that would help balance his remarks, by presenting another point of view. Dan has every right to publish his opinion of the RNP, and I only hope that people will weigh both reviews in making an informed decision.

And I hope this will not strain my relationship with Dan, since I really do respect his opinions.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
And I hope this will not strain my relationship with Dan, since I really do respect his opinions.
Click to expand...

Oh, Dan can take it. He believes passionately about his opinions but he doesn't mind anyone disagreeing. :)
 
tubedude said:
Amen, Harvey.




That easily? C'mon, man, even Fletcher likes it... :)
Click to expand...
I guess I should judge with my ears, and not my eyes, but, it just looks cheap. I also agree with Dot on one point, if you're going to do a 2 channel pre-amp for $500, make it look like a professional piece of gear, and not a toy. I mean, "Guzinta's", "Guzouta's". Please! That's not humorus, that's ..... borderline insulting!

These are just my points of view. They're not based on ANY actual use of the product. It's doubtful you'll find one in my rack any time soon though.
 
Hmmm.......

I guess that I have to say, that I don't have much respect for Dan's opinions. (Just my opinion)

I've heard him spew alot of pseudo-science, and also ridiculous one-sided praise.

1. Dan: Have you EVER tried calling FMR. I've never not gotten either Mark or Beth when I've called. (3 times)

2. Their stuff is made in the US. Not that I wouldn't buy things from China, but look around you. I like that I can buy US made when our economy is skidding.

3. I've not heard the RNP, so I don't have an opinion on it. But Dan was gushing over the VTB-1, saying some of the wackiest things I've ever heard. (I'm sure the VTB-1 is ok.)

4. While the listening sessions are somewhat helpful, I'm leary of the way conclusions are drawn. There is way to much gear for the testers to really understand each item. For example: the tests in no way come close to revealing the versitility of the MP-1NV. I heard some big inconsistencies between gain-matching between samples as well.

I dunno. Myself, anything coming from Dot, I screen through a BS detecter the size of Texas. (Dot already knows how I feel. )

-J;)

-Jett
 
Regardless of how the thing looks, sounds, or works, I gotta' hand it to Dan for having the guts to express what will likely be an unpopular opinion.
 
chessrock said:
Regardless of how the thing looks, sounds, or works, I gotta' hand it to Dan for having the guts to express what will likely be an unpopular opinion.
Click to expand...
Dan's remarks here are a bit toned down from some of his other statements in another RNP thread at Harmony Central which created all the flak to start with, such as:

The RNP is damn near a toy, IMO – a little, tiny plastic box w/ plastic jacks and plastic everything. The input increments of 6db are ridiculous. It has poor gain and it's noisy. I wouldn't recommend it as a first or even second pre. Maybe a third pre - just to have something extra around. And you watch: the RNP will be a $250-or-less pre before the end of the year.

On the FMR Audio website, the RNP is described as "Really neutral sonics ". That is total bullshit. This is one of the most colored pres we've tested. clear, transparent sounding mic pre-amp, i.e. if you want to hear the artist's voice, drum, cymbal, bass, etc., not the pre- amp. That is not true. The RNP definitely has a "different" sound and "transparent and clear" are the last words I would use to describe it.

Or wait for the VTB-2. It's going to kill the RNP. I (and several other engineers here) prefer the VTB-1 to the RNP. We prefer the Tampa to the RNP.

Given my choice of Sytek vs. RNP + MP20 - I'd say none of them.

If you get an RNP, Sytek or MP20, all you have is $700 gone and some half-assed pres that make little to no difference over even the Audio Buddy or any other cheap pre.

And things kinda went downhill from there. :(
 
I do not "highly recommend" the RNP.
Click to expand...

But you do highly recommend the VTB-1 and the old Radius stuff, right? That gives me a pretty good indication of how much weight I should give your opinions. But, of course, that's just my opinion.

And, quite frankly, to say that a Sytek is no improvement over an Audiobuddy is insane. Time for an ear cleaning, I'd say.
 
yeah...that review goes too far. i don't really have an opinion on the RNP becuase i've never had one, but there are some ludicrous things. anyways...

the milesaway.mp3 is interesting. The vocals sound really good to me...it sounds like a somewhat amateur tracking job though...I'd like to hear what someone like Harvey could do on a song tracked with only RNP ::wink wink:: ::nudge nudge:: - hehe, j/k. i wouldn't expect you to waste your time like that.
 
Dot said:
Take the price down to $179 and then I'll say, yes, the RNP is as good in the pre amp world as the RNC is in the compressor world.
Click to expand...

The RNC has such a great price/performance ratio because it had an innovative design. It was clear from what FMRAudio said quite a while before it was finished that the RNP would not contain any significant leaps forward in Preamp-technology. It would therefore be expected that the $500 RNP pretty much gives you what you pay for. You get a $500 preamp, no more, no less.

The plastic box are ways to make sure almost all ofthe $500 goes into the sound, and not into other stuff.
 
Just to get a few things straight: It's never been determined that FMR wouldn't send out a loaner for The Listening Sessions - they [ Mark ] just never got back to me at all. I contacted them as a Contributing Editor from Digital Pro Sound only - looking to review the unit. I sent a couple of emails and called three times, during which I spoke with a woman who answered the phone.

I do highly recommend the VTB-1 at $179. I no longer recommend the Radius series and have not done so since August. I've been a long-time TL Audio user and often recommend their products.

As far as TLS, the levels have been worked out and I have new files I'm reposting when I get a sec. We've been using some of these early sessions to get the kinks out and everyone knows that.

Harvey, I've got no problem with you, and obviously I knew my thoughts on the RNP were going to be met with some resistance and also that you and others would supply other opinions.

I didn't make an "RNP sucks" review. I just think for $500 the design could have been considered more. Much more.

_____________

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
Anyone who wants to desperately sell their RNP's to me can get $300.
And anyone who wants to buy my "vintage" VTB-1 can have it for $400.
This is a limited time offer so act now!

Seriously, how big of a deal is it to have 6 db gain increments or not?
I'm surprised the RNC wasn't made with XLR outs, doesn't that limit its
use in professional applications where you want to avoid potential noise
from using unbalanced cables?
Surprised to see the negative comments on the Sytek BTW.

Chris

P.S. Along with the VTB-2, I expect the Toft Audio products to be the
next big thing-just a prediction.
 
chessparov said:
I'm surprised the RNC wasn't made with XLR outs, doesn't that limit its use in professional applications where you want to avoid potential noise from using unbalanced cables?
Click to expand...
The RNP DOES have balanced outputs, so you can use balanced cables. The ouputs are on TRS jacks, not XLRs, but they're still fully balanced outputs.
 
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