My songs are way too short.

[grimtraveller]

^^^^^^^^ Brilliant post.

Hmmm...

only a couple or several lines long, is not always bad, and in fact in some instances could be really GOOD.


a lot of times, if those 3 lines are long, complicated lines... they could be broken up, into terser phrases, drawn out when sung... and three big lines could potentially yield a couple of stanzas...

3 GREAT powerfully, impacting lines could be potentially better in the end, that 3 great lines with 12 more lines "forced out" that might drown the thing. WHo knows without trying it? hearing the song?

While I think this yields some truly great and encouraging stuff {and I really mean that}, doing that for 10 songs on an album may seem a little too one dimensional.

 

[guitaristic]

What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

I think we've all been there at one point or another. It happens. One thing I do when I run into this problem is write backwards! Like maybe you have a good 1st verse--make that the 2nd verse and write a 1st verse leading up to that. Repetition can be useful, but isn't always necessary!

As for "Getting to the hook of the song," I don't know about that. Most songs are built around the hook! There's always exceptions though. Just make sure to make the hook catchy

 

[Manslick]

Just kidding

Just put any of SEDstar's posts to music. You'll be fine.

 

[SEDstar]

...

Well... it'll then be lengthy, I suppose *shrugs*

but remember quality, not quantity... which would advise against that course of action, LMAO

PS - and I thought no one noticed my propensity for long posts. I was rather hoping that might fly under the radar... LMAO

 

[toddyjoe]

Here are two ideas helped me (and continue to help me) develop my songwriting:

1. Look at how you communicate with other people. Do you tend to say little and speak more with body language or your hands? Maybe then your musical communication will be less about words and lyrics and more instrumental. Are you a man of few words or one who can talk for hours? If you are not the talkative type, you probably have no need for a huge word count or running time in your songs. Are you a man of simple words, or one that that is quite verbose and eloquent? Try to incorporate that same degree of complexity (Ramones versus Rush lyrics) into your lyrics until you are ready to venture beyond your lyrical comfort zone. Do you use a lot of descriptive comparisons, metaphors or similes when you tell a story or in conversation? Perhaps lyrics would come faster if you did word exercises or jotted down unique words or phrases ahead of time that you could develop into lines and lyrics. If you have a comedic or fun-loving personality in everyday conversation, maybe lyrics and songs will come faster if they are also fun or funny rather than uncharacteristically brooding or deep. Etc. You already have developed your way of communicating with others in the world, so apply some of those existing skills to develop your musical communication skills.

2. Copy your favorite artists. dintymoore hit the nail on the head. You know what kinds of music you drift to in terms of sound, style, lyrics, song length, etc. Go a step beyond just copying a song style or "sound." Break down your favorite songs and artists and look for patterns or common elements that you can work into your music. Sometimes this is obvious: if you are a fan of jam bands and extended-length instrumentals, you probably do not have to worry if your songs have long passages of instrumental sections or a long run time. Sometimes these patterns or commonalities are less subtle, like when your favorite artists write lyrics from the third-person vs. first-person perspective. Maybe the artists have little concern for rhyming. Perhaps they use repetitive ideas or concepts over several songs, or repeatedly use certain kinds of adjectives (colors, temperature, etc.), or even write songs focused on a particular time period or geographical location. Maybe they structure their songs (verses, choruses, breaks, solos, key changes, etc.) in similar ways, or maybe they orchestrate songs in a similar manner (for example, quieter and minimalistic at the beginning and gradually build volume/tempo/instrumentation/whatever). You like these artists and songs for a reason, so maybe you will like your songs more if you know you are incorporating similar concepts.

 

[Whatmysay]

Why do you stop writing? When you say you run out of ideas? Run out of ideas to do what exactly? How do you view the creative process?

After the inspiration do you decide on what the song is going to say? This might give you some indication as to where to go? Could what you write be a Chorus instead of Verses - I use to (still do) block because what I'd written first was the Ch; summation of my ideas - I remember writing 3 verses of a song once - that went on to be 3 Ch of 3 completely different songs?

Maybe you commit to words too soon and don't consider the core idea in the song?

Maybe the pressure of the arrangement you create quickly is blocking the lyrics - try sticking to just a composing instrument (piano/ac g) and voice rather then leaping for your DAW.

Maybe you are not a lyricist (yet)? Maybe your a 'do learner' and you need to find another composer/lyricist to work along side to see how thy do it? Then find another composer and find out how they do it?

The really question is about motivation - it is clear that people are genetically pre-disposed to some skills and ways of thinking, but it does not mean that those skills and ways of thinking can not be learnt if you are motivated?

So the big question is why do you write? Do you have to write lyrics to fulfil this or have you got the idea that you need to write lyrics as well as music? If it is the later then stick with it, keep posting here, follow all the good advice above, read books and learn - because it is a skill that can be developed.

If on the other hand you think about it and you realise that the words are not important - get on with have great time composing instrumentals and post them up on the Mp3 clinic for all of us.

HTH

Burt

 

[Bob Ross]

When in need of additional material, heed the immortal advice of Herman's Hermits:

"Second verse, same as the first!"

 

[glynb]

What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

Maybe short songs are your thing. Say what you have to say succinctly, then play the next song.

Seek out the work of Wildman Fisher.

Sometimes one verse and a chorus and it's done.

 

[BigMuffinMan]

Here's an idea that really helped me:

1. Record every riff/song idea that you write as much as possible, doesnt matter how, write it out in standard notation if you have to.

2. Don't worry about "finishing" something you write right away, if you can't think of anywhere to take the song yet just leave it and move on.

3. Eventually you will have a stockpile of riffs/ideas/unfinished songs. Once in a while go back and listen to all the ideas you have stockpiled. As you will listen you may find you have "oh yeah, that riff!" moments and probably have forgotten alot of them.

I find that after forgetting or not listening to/playing a riff for a while that I previously wrote but couldnt take anywhere, and then going back to it gives a kind of 'fresh start' on it and I usually end up comming up with a new idea of what to do with that riff.

Alternately, you can just slap together a bunch of riffs from your stockpile to make a song thats longer and still "no filler".

 

[cashcohen]

Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.

I pretty much agree. Don't force a song to be long. If it's short, it's short. Long can be good, if that's the nature of the song.

It's a Zen thing.

 

[Jim Lad]

if you want good lyrics develop your lyric writing skills.

That's it in a nutshell, I'm afraid.
I started blogging a couple of years ago for that very reason.
Find what works for you though and stick with it.
You could, for instance, try writing/typing with your non dominant hand.
Write the last line first....?

 

[grimtraveller]

Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.

I pretty much agree. Don't force a song to be long. If it's short, it's short. Long can be good, if that's the nature of the song.

It's a Zen thing.

Yeah, but hang on a minute. Short songs are not the issue here. I've never, to this day ever met anyone that can say they dislike short songs. The issue here is that Dave can't get beyond three lines. That's not 'short' ! Three lines makes 'short' look like a Yes/Genesis/Pink Floyd style 24 minute progressive rock epic !

 

[cashcohen]

Yeah, but hang on a minute. Short songs are not the issue here. I've never, to this day ever met anyone that can say they dislike short songs. The issue here is that Dave can't get beyond three lines. That's not 'short' ! Three lines makes 'short' look like a Yes/Genesis/Pink Floyd style 24 minute progressive rock epic !

Grim, you raise a good point. I think we need some clarification from Dave. SO I have a couple queries.

Are you exaggerating when you say "3 lines," or are you truly finding it difficult to write a even fourth line?

Do your 3 lines form a complete verse/stanza/unit? If so, try playing around with them and come up with some variations that are similar but tweaked enough to merit repetition. Voila, you now have 6 lines! Or 9!

It's difficult to diagnose the problem without knowing all of the symptoms.

 

[Greg_L]

Surely by now homeboy added some lines to his song.

 

[benherron.rrr]

I hate to say it but,
I think your problem is worring about it too much. as corny as it sounds, let the song write you, dont let yourself write the song. I would say most of the best songs in the world came from a momentary idea. Its like if somone came up to you and told you to write he best song in the world, you couldn't do it. You would sit down for hours and hours focusing on getting the best song. but when you sit down playing your instruments just for fun. you could very well come across the secret indredient to form the best song in the world.
when I write lryics I usually have the song as it will be playing. I will open my mouth and without thourght the words come down, I write them as they flow and perfect them later. but over thinking somthing iroicly means the quality lacks. so forget about it for the moment start a new track or take a break. and come back to it later.

 

[grimtraveller]

It works both ways though. Zillions of the songs we love were "written", that is, someone or some people sat down consciously to write a song - and did. And people have always written both ways. And sometimes, you will overthink it and what you end up with isn't what you started with. But whether it's deliberately thought out or a lightning bolt of inspiration, Dave still has his issue to sort out.
There'll always be the odd song now and again with only three lines or whatever and they'll be great songs. But he wants to extend his lyrics to say a bit more and like Jim lad reiterated, that's a matter of craft. A dirty word to some, perhaps, but the reality nonetheless. It will take practice and possible rejection, but he will get there. He may already be there or heading there now.......

 

[LI_Slim]

What I am about to say is not a criticism since I have never heard any of your songs.


One possible explanation is ADD. Everyone has it these days. Get some meds. [This is a joke answer]


More likely, you need to grow and mature as an artist and musician. If you read more (I mean literature, like poems and novels) it might help you express more complex thoughts. If you learn a little music theory and listen to jazz and stuff like that, you might come up with more sophisticated musical ideas than simply repeating a riff or a simple chord progression over and over again.

 

[Atom Bomb]

Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.

+1


Short songs leave me wanting more.


Awesome aspect of a good song.

Let bon jovi take care of 10 minute ballads.

 

[grimtraveller]

+1


Short songs leave me wanting more.


Awesome aspect of a good song.

I feel that way when I hear "Dreams" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra and "Echoes" by Pink Floyd. They're both around the 23 minute mark !

 

[moresound]

What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

2nd verse same as the 1st