My songs are way too short.

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oldskooldave

oldskooldave

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What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

:confused:
 
Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.
 
What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

:confused:

Why don't you just work on writting more lines to your songs....? :)

Or...you can just do 1 minute guitar leads after each of the three lines...that will get you some "bulk". :D
 
Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.
in your opinion, its not the same for everyone, for instance my favourite musicans write songs up to 12 or 13 minutes long, and i can sit through them and never get bored,
but of course thats just me.

i also have the same problem, i can make them longer, but i feel like im being too repetetive and it feels bad :(
 
What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

:confused:
Sometimes when I'm stuck it can be helpful to start writing down where I'd like to go with the song and any ideas that I think I could use. The framework can keep me pointed in a direction.

Other times it can be a matter of writing down stuff even though I know it sucks knowing I will have to fix it or replace it. This is way more productive than staring at the page hoping for an epiphany.

Some really good stuff can come from reworking awful poetry.
 
Shorter is better. I'd rather hear a short song than a long song.

If you think your song is too short it probably is. If you think your song needs to be longer you are probably wrong.
 
What I normally end up doing is writing like...3 lines of a song, recording an awesome track to sing it over..and I can't take it any further. And the song just plays like an instrumental track after about 30 seconds.

I read in an article about blues songs that repetition is key, but this just doesnt sound right with that im trying to do.

any tips for 'bulking up' a short song, how to get to the hook of the song etc..?

:confused:

What's wrong with instrumentals?

If you need lyrics so much you're looking for filler, just write any freaking thing. How many songs do you love where either the words are stupid or make no sense?

Or, translate something into spanish. How do you say "I'm having trouble writing the lyrics to this song" en espanol?
 
anvilicious

OK. I admit it. Had to look that one up...

Anvilicious: A portmanteau of anvil and either delicious or malicious, depending on the usage, anvilicious describes a writer's and/or director's use of an artistic element, be it line of dialogue, visual motif, or plot point, to so obviously or unsubtly convey a particular message that they may as well etch it onto an anvil and drop it on your head. Frequently, the element becomes anvilicious through unnecessary repetition, but true masters can achieve anviliciousness with a single stroke
 
I'm the worst person to ask. A 35 minute piece for me is not that unusual !
No, Sunderland Dave, I hope this doesn't come across as harsh coz it ain't meant to be, but your training is incomplete and you need to learn how to write songs, complete songs.

YOU CAN DO IT !

YOU SHALL GO TO THE BALL.

They don't have to be marvelous world beaters to start with. Take it upon yourself to discipline yourself and force yourself to come up with something. Like Tc4b said, just come up with any old crap

"I'm luco-luco-zading/ I'm tough but not amazing
And when the ladies see me/ they no longer cry
I'm win-win-winter snoozing/ not polka tulka cruising
But in my dreams I'm itching to fry"

Either that or collaborate with a lyricist.
 
i don't think there's too long or to short... as long as it's good all the way trough .
 
I wouldn't worry about it. The #1 song problem is songs getting boring.

If it seems awkward to you, make up a bridge section.

Form is real important in music. Drummers play the form of a song. A good drummer can't play any other way. Drum loops do very little for the form of a song, they just go 'round and 'round... real drummers don't do that, they lead up to the orgasm of the song, which is usually about 90% of the way through the tune, and then there's the "cigarette after" section of the song. Most songs go that way.

Most songs are in 8 bar phrases, it's the 4x8 plywood sheet of popular music. There's lots of exceptions, but in popular music it's the norm. Maybe check out your favorite composers/bands and take a few of their songs apart - intro/verse/verse/solo etc to see what some of their songs go like. The way we learned to talk was by copying, in the end your own style will come through.
 
Do you stop writing because you lose inspiration? Why exactly do your songs stop after three lines? I mean, people here are right in saying that there's no "right length" for a song, but if you'd like to continue them and you simply can't, then it sounds more like a problem with inspiration.

There's a post I put up on my blog yesterday (linked in my signature) about "songwriter's block" that you might find helpful. The gist of it is that there's no wrong way to write lyrics -- whatever you end up writing is just a conveyance of what you're trying to express. If people criticize you for not writing lyrics that "make sense," then the problem's on their end, not yours.
 
Scaramouche ! Scaramouche ! Will we do the fandango ?

If people criticize you for not writing lyrics that "make sense," then the problem's on their end, not yours.

That's a good point. I'd go as far as saying that making sense isn't even a given for a good lyric. There are lots of songs where the lyric makes abundant sense to the writer, but to no one else, like Bohemian Rhapsody. The Queen drummer, Roger Taylor says he's the only one Freddie Mercury ever told the meaning ! And he won't tell anybody !!
 
songs too short, eh?

Hmmm...

only a couple or several lines long, is not always bad, and in fact in some instances could be really GOOD.

example?

I was amazed when I wrote the lyrics out by listening to the song and constantly pausing it (days befor einternet, lol) on a coule of Elton John songs. His in particular... a lot of them, the biggest hits I might add...

do not have a particularly large number of phrases (lines). But, they get repeated several times, and delivered/phrased slightly different each time... and its all done so good you often dont REALIZE there are so FEW lines in it..

Look at some of them and see for yourself. Depending on how much impact thos few lines have, and how you use them, and re-use them slightly differently... *shrugs*

Laura Branigan had a hit with "Cos I'm your lady... and you are my man. Whenever you reach for me, I'll do all I can..."

and if you cross out the repeats of the several lines, theres not much original line writing done there...

so, without hearing the song, or whatever... what few lines you HAVE might be magic, who knows? OVER writing is as pandemic as underwriting.

Heck, i remember that band what were they? "The prsidents of the united states of america"??? They died out, but were huge that one year. "Gonna go to the country, and grow me some peaches. Gonna go to the county and grow me some peaches... gonna go to the country and eat me a whole buncha peaches"

if they would have pitched the "lyrics only" on HERE the year before the album was released, would any of us have thought it would be a hit? (I prolly wouldnt just reading the lyrics)

a lot of times, if those 3 lines are long, complicated lines... they could be broken up, into terser phrases, drawn out when sung... and three big lines could potentially yield a couple of stanzas...

3 GREAT powerfully, impacting lines could be potentially better in the end, that 3 great lines with 12 more lines "forced out" that might drown the thing. WHo knows without trying it? hearing the song?
 
if you want good lyrics develop your lyric writing skills.
Examine good lyrics and see what makes them effective.
If that doesnt appeal collaborate with someone who does write good lyrics.
Writing good lyrics is as much of a fine art as any stage of recording . Or singing. Or playing killer drums. etc.
There are many great books on the subject, but the best thing in my experience has been just doing it. Write way more than you need and pick the best of that , spend some time with it.
You'd be amazed at how simple adjustments to a lyric can make it interesting.
 
...

There are SO many different styles of lyrics (one being none at all, lol) and equally many, if not MORE so styles of WRITING lyrics...

(I cant seem to competently do ANY of them *big dramatic sigh*... but, I digress... LMAO)

For a LONG time duran duran's "hold back the rain" intrigued me. I LIKED the lyrics and the song, the melody and lyrics fit so well together. But it all seemed so nonsense jumbled. ONE phrase I eventually learned what it meant... they say at one point about "when I ride the outside rail, (hold back the raii-nnnnnnn...)

A decade later, a friend and I worked on motorcycle a lot, and rode them. he was the much better racer, on dirt or street. He was explaining "tradecraft" to me about street racing, which was what I liked, I hate racing in the dirt. he explained that it was a beginners instruction to always cut to the inside to pass, because you are making the circle shorter, and you can pass a vehicle on the outyside of the curve thats actually traveling a longer distance... and when running alone, you always cut to the insides of the turns, you can GO faster...

BUT, when road racing... you pass or attempt to pass on the insides on theopther guy, several times... THEN, in a reverse turn... you siddenly open up and pass on the OUTSIDE, which sets you up for the inside of the NEXT turn you are already going faster into... then you HIT that straightaway, adn continue to "ride that outside rail".

They keep cutting you off passing on the inside, and anticipate it... then WHAM! you get them to the outside, which is actually the inside (where you WANT to be) on the NEXT turn... then you "ride the out-side rail..."

which for THAT line at least, had to be where it came from., what it meant, if even metaphorically.

For all their "nonsense" lyrics, they must have been damn good... as I spent the better part of a DECADE mulling that cool line over in my head, LMAO



"Gecko" alwats maintains that you cant just DUMP the meaning onto the listener... you cant just say "she's getting mad". No, being artistic with it, if that is the whole POINT of the song... he would reccomend, uhm... something like...

"Clouds are coming, in her eyes, strokes of lightning, no surprise..."

(actually, i WANTED to use the old song "Sara", which sais it "sara ... sara.. storms are brewing in your eyes..."

BUT, I wantd to see if I could do it myself *shrugs* I CANT, but... LMAO

you get the idea... geck al;ways repeats the mantra that you lyricise the IMAGE, and not exactly what you want to say. makr the listener WORK a little bit (not TOO much, lol) to see what you really mean.

If your a real wordsmith, you might say something 3 times as a chorus... seems to have ONE meaning... then BAM! at the end, there was a PUN that suddenly surprises you and changes the whole meaning. You were FOOLED.

Which might be termed "riding the outside rail" lyrically, LMAO.

Writers in print have stock and trade weapons. Repetition is one. Foreshadowing is another. the double meaning, or pun... the surprise. The false climax.. the real climax... hyperbole (overstating something for a point) is "I walked a million miles", you didnt really, but it makes a point.

the metaphor I am fond of. "You have 2 ways to go about this... one, soars like an eagle.. the other? Crawls on the ground, like a snake in the grass!"

For most popular music styles, you must rhyme. You must have "meter". BUT... you here and there have to NOT rhyme when you expected it, and BREAK meter... or else, it sounds like bad poetry instead of song lyrics.

Unless your one of those "deep" folk songwriters, who seem to get away with just idly strumming soft chords on their little guitar on their little stool, softly whispering lyrics, almost talking them...

EXCEPT, if your writing a musical? Every line MUST rhyme, a perfect rhyme too... in very regular strict metering. *shrugs* its the genre.

In general, your main verbal "hook" which often names the song, and is the most repeated phrase... should "go with" the main melody, or musical hook. I think this is why many start with a melody and then devise the main verbal hook from it, to guarantee it "goes" together perfectly... the rest is then crafted slowly around that.

You LEARN rules and rules of thumb, to get used to doing it... then to be really good, you have to break some rule or rules, to be "daring" and "fresh".

do whatever you want really... whatever starts to "work" for you, and people start to respond to, even a little... you GO with that...

The audience is really in charge, not you. In a way, anyways.


ONE technique, is to write a patriotic song, just after a war starts. THATS a sure fire crowd pleaser, they all RUSH to jump on THAT one. The first few are rewarded, and thought clever... but really, you can set your watch by it. I'm 41... I KNEW the songs were coming when I saw the war on the news, LMAO. I called it...

ANOTHER technique, is to say something outlandish, toitally opposite of whats normal thought. Some like the daring idea, the balls! Some HATE it, they compain endlesly! BUT, everyone is talking about YOUR song, eh? "controversy" is the best free advertising you can get!

The field of putting words on paper is WIDE open... play and handle all the various weapons, see which ones fit your pen hand best! Humor, sarcasm, blunt for4ce trauma repetition, sideways puns and double entendres... see hat you like, and what of those work for you...

ME? I just concentrate on composing classical music. I try to do ONE very specific thing, as well as I can aspire to learn to.

GREAT deep lyrics, with a predictable 3 chord soft struming works fo many, so-so lyrics but really WELL sung by a great singer can make a song great too...

How about THIS... maybe your "perfect" 3 lines are the hook and melody, just perfect... the other guy you collaborate can run with it and flesh it out... the singer is there to trim it up here and there, for how they deliver it... a group effort, a good one where the final result is somethign more than just the simple sum of the parts...
 
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