my ribbon problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter scrubs
  • Start date Start date
scrubs

scrubs

Not of sound mind
So, in testing out my newly acquired ribbon mics (alctron hrm-10 and hrm-15 from the group buy), I'm getting a wierd distortion on the hrm-10 when recording guitar. Someone suggested it might be electrical interference, but I'm not sure. It only occurs when playing, making me think the ribbon may be bad. I'm attaching clips of both mics in hopes that someone can diagnose the problem. Both clips are of the same performance, using a DMP3 pre into a delta 66. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

HRM-10: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=3451
HRM-15: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=3452
 
I donno...both mics doing exactly the same thing. Unlikely but...possible. Have you changed out the mic cords and/or tried different mic pre's to isolate the problem to a specific piece of equipment?
 
punkin said:
I donno...both mics doing exactly the same thing. Unlikely but...possible. Have you changed out the mic cords and/or tried different mic pre's to isolate the problem to a specific piece of equipment?
Click to expand...

Yep, tried different pres and cables, so I'm pretty sure it's the mic. I guess the next step is to take it apart.
 
I have asked for feedback from others involved in the buy. All I've got (so far) is praise. I find it strange that two different mics are giving the same result.
I can remember an old Toby tube amp that would give a similiar problem with my RCA ribbon. That problem was with that mic/amp combo only. I tried a different mic with that amp and had no problem. I tried a different amp with the RCA and had no problem. Some amps lack internal shielding and emit something that affects some ribbon mics. This was confirmed about a year later when I read of a similar problem someone had in the prodigy forum. Later I will see if I can find that topic/explaination and will post
 
chance said:
I have asked for feedback from others involved in the buy. All I've got (so far) is praise. I find it strange that two different mics are giving the same result.
I can remember an old Toby tube amp that would give a similiar problem with my RCA ribbon. That problem was with that mic/amp combo only. I tried a different mic with that amp and had no problem. I tried a different amp with the RCA and had no problem. Some amps lack internal shielding and emit something that affects some ribbon mics. This was confirmed about a year later when I read of a similar problem someone had in the prodigy forum. Later I will see if I can find that topic/explaination and will post
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'm not having the same problem with both mics. If you listen to the clips carefully, there is an extra "fuzzy/buzzy" on the HRM-10, particularly on the first few notes. That sound isn't there on the HRM-15 clip.
 
Nope you're not crazy. :) I hear a slight distortion on the HRM-10 that isn't in the other sound bite. It is slight bit it is there. If you cut the gain on the HRM-10 do you still hear the distortion? I don't have any suggestions and of course you can't send the mic back.

Last year I ordered three of the ribbon mics from Alctron that were the Royer 121 copies and one of them has a rattle inside of it. I haven't taken it apart because it works okay but it is annoying that the rattle is there. Good luck with your HRM-10.
 
ljmaxx said:
Nope you're not crazy. :) I hear a slight distortion on the HRM-10 that isn't in the other sound bite. It is slight bit it is there. If you cut the gain on the HRM-10 do you still hear the distortion? I don't have any suggestions and of course you can't send the mic back.

Last year I ordered three of the ribbon mics from Alctron that were the Royer 121 copies and one of them has a rattle inside of it. I haven't taken it apart because it works okay but it is annoying that the rattle is there. Good luck with your HRM-10.
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Thanks for the confirmation, Jim. Yeah, the noise is still there at lower gains. I'm just trying to figure out what's causing the noise, so I can get it fixed. The 'no warranty' part of the purchase is a bummer, but I knew that going in, so I certainly don't blame chance, or anyone else. I'll pop her open this weekend and look for anything unusual.
 
I got a tube mic at the NAMM show from Alctron that had a bad capsule. I was put in contact with their tech and they walked me thru voltage checks to the capsule. Voltages were OK so they sent me a new capsule. I will wait untill everyone has their mics, and see if anyone else has a problem and see what they suggest. They seem good about replacing defective mics. I had my replacement capsule whithin 2 weeks after I notified them.
 
I put one of the 10's on a blues jr amp last night. Not much volume on the amp and I did get some distortion from the mic. Turned the volume down even more and the buzz wnet away. I plan on using the mic's again tonight. I'll post the results.
 
Just in case it is not known to everyone, Ribbon mics typically have a lower output than other mics
 
Is it possible the imepedance of the ribbon is causing this, I know one mic has problems and the other doesn't, and they are probably the same imepedance so I don't know where I am going with this, has anyone seen my lost puppy?
 
Any chance it's just too high an SPL and the ribbon is deflecting so far that it drags against something in the mic? Any chance the foam protection around the ribbon is compressed in such a way that it is rubbing the ribbon?
 
Good point with the high SPL...try recording with low audio level source and then with high level audio source...better or different? It should be able to handle plenty o sound but it could be slight alignment issue with the ribbon.

On those same lines, since you've got it narrowed down to the mic, I would take the cover off...put it infront of one of your monitors, crank it up and play your fav tune (pop filter in front of course), and see if you can observe any side to side movement in the ribbon.

Most of those mics have a fine wire mesh covering the element, get a pen light/flashlight and look real close to see if one of those little metalic hairs from the mesh has fallen inside. You might even have to pull one of the covers off. They're just held on with a rubber glue. It should peal right off. Just be careful. Make sure everything inside is nice and secure. I've found loose screws before which can cause a bit of a rattle.
 
I have been recording with a beyerdynamic M130, and it takes enough gain that there's always a lot of noise on the track. This is true even though I run it into a preamp and then into a mixer, which gives me an extra gain stage. Since I'm using it with an AT condensor in M/S, I can reduce the noise without making the overall recording sound bad, but I still have the problem with straight-up recording.

The only solution is a high-gain pre; I plan to buy a Grace 101 ribbon preamp, which has higher gain than most pres, to get around this problem.
 
punkin said:
Good point with the high SPL...try recording with low audio level source and then with high level audio source...better or different? It should be able to handle plenty o sound but it could be slight alignment issue with the ribbon.

On those same lines, since you've got it narrowed down to the mic, I would take the cover off...put it infront of one of your monitors, crank it up and play your fav tune (pop filter in front of course), and see if you can observe any side to side movement in the ribbon.

Most of those mics have a fine wire mesh covering the element, get a pen light/flashlight and look real close to see if one of those little metalic hairs from the mesh has fallen inside. You might even have to pull one of the covers off. They're just held on with a rubber glue. It should peal right off. Just be careful. Make sure everything inside is nice and secure. I've found loose screws before which can cause a bit of a rattle.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll try that. I'd say the amp is no more than 100dB, and the mic is rated at 148dB max SPL.
 
scrubs said:
Cool, I'll try that. I'd say the amp is no more than 100dB, and the mic is rated at 148dB max SPL.
Click to expand...

While I think that is a good idea on the electric but it doesn't explain the distortion on the acoustic guitar which seems to me punkin is correct.
 
Well, I tossed my HRM-10 on my Microcube, and it sounded fine, if a little dark. I tried singing into the area in front of it (i.e. my mouth and the mic were at a 90-degree angle to avoid wind pops), and it was still really sensitive to excessive wind. Could be the speaker's just moving too much air...maybe try a Stedman pop filter?
 
I've never tried a ribbon for overheads and am looking forward to trying the 10's for that.
 
FWIW, both of the ribbons I purchased through the group buy didn't have foam filter material inside. Just a light metal mesh/screen over the ribbon capsules.

I played with them a bit last night and am very pleased. The double ribbon unit is quite sensitive with a higher output than I expected. The proximity effect is very pronounced. Might take a little getting used to.

All in all, an excellent bargain, better than half the cost if I were to get them over the open market.

Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack.
 
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