my Protools mixes sound small after bounce

L

lbcstudios

New member
hey guys, i have seriuos problem... my mixes sound amazing to me when i play them in protools with all the session files... when im done mixing, i bounce it down, and the bounced file sounds so much smaller and waeker... like its all crammed, i pan one guitar 80 R and one 80 L and one center, i use room mics, i do everything i can... this is how i have the settings when i bounce stuff down... 44.1 khz ..i make it stereo file, and i have it set on tweakhead conversion, and i make it a wav..... is thier something i am doing wrong? or does PT just have that small of a sound when bounced down???/ please help,all my mixing / recording work seems useless .
 
Are you going from 24 bit to 16 bit? There are problems when doing this, as you lose some data in the conversion. There have been big debates on other forums about how to get passed this, but I think the best bet is to go from 24 bit to Tape. You won't lose the dynamic content that way.Otherwise, you may want to look into some different dithering possibilities for the computer.


fucanay
 
Are you using a master fader set to 0dbfs with the dither plug on the last insert (if reducing from 24 to 16)?

If not you could be clipping the mix bus. Even if you're not in the red you could still have overs. The metering/summing in PT leaves a lot to be desired so it's best to leave yourself some extra headroom. I try to peak no higher than -1dbfs.
 
lbcstudios said:
hey guys, i have seriuos problem... my mixes sound amazing to me when i play them in protools with all the session files... when im done mixing, i bounce it down, and the bounced file sounds so much smaller and waeker... like its all crammed, i pan one guitar 80 R and one 80 L and one center, i use room mics, i do everything i can... this is how i have the settings when i bounce stuff down... 44.1 khz ..i make it stereo file, and i have it set on tweakhead conversion, and i make it a wav..... is thier something i am doing wrong? or does PT just have that small of a sound when bounced down???/ please help,all my mixing / recording work seems useless .
Click to expand...

Are you comparing apples to apples?

In addition to bit depth, how are you monitoring the bounced file?

Try pulling in the bounced file back into the same session that you used to record it on a stereo track. A/B the results through the same converter and path that you used to mix.

If you're comparing the session against a consumer level CD player all bets are off ...
 
no im not dithering anything, i bounce the files down to one stero file, and open it up in sound forge... and i use the same monitors to play it back in SF. maybe if i bounce it down at 96khz??
 
First, no need to use the tweakhead conversion. That setting is pretty much outmoded and unnecessary. Go with high quality or normal quality.

I'm not sure what the sound issue is. Same monitors, same volume level, same everything?

Do you send the mixes through the same hardware (e.g., if you are using a 001, do you have Soundforge playing through the 001 same as the Digi stuff?) You probably don't want to be listening to the mix through your Digi hardware in Pro Tools and your Soundblaster in Soundforge.
 
lbcstudios said:
all my mixing / recording work seems useless .
Click to expand...

I have the same problem/complaint!!! I use Pro Tools LE with an 002 interface and I must admit, after the mix is bounced to disc, it sounds very small, and dull. Maybe if we bounce to an external source instead of using Pro Tools?
 
AumStudioBrian said:
I have the same problem/complaint!!! I use Pro Tools LE with an 002 interface and I must admit, after the mix is bounced to disc, it sounds very small, and dull. Maybe if we bounce to an external source instead of using Pro Tools?
Click to expand...

I read an article in Mix that mentioned bouncing down from a bus rather than an interface may improve the situation. I tried it, but it really didn't seem to make a difference to me. I've also heard of folks recording into another stereo track from PT instead of bouncing down.

Again, try importing the bounced track into Pro Tools in the same session that was used to record it and A/B it. If you are going to compare something it has to be an even playing field. Listening to a mix in PT and then the bounce in another program is not the same thing.
 
thanks for all the help guys, ill give those ideas ^ a shot... i think i recorded all the tracks onto one stereo track sent em thru a bus, and it held a little more original power. thanks, and please post anymore ideas. I will tell u if i have any luck.
 
i use pro tools and dont have problems when i bounce... make sure u set it to wav... stereo interleave, 16 bit... 44.1 khz i think it is and make sure its set to conver after bounce, thats how i do it and done have a problem... if u try to convert to WMA format it gets the type of bad qaulity ur talking about
 
ntnguitarist3 said:
i use pro tools and dont have problems when i bounce... make sure u set it to wav... stereo interleave, 16 bit... 44.1 khz i think it is and make sure its set to conver after bounce, thats how i do it and done have a problem... if u try to convert to WMA format it gets the type of bad qaulity ur talking about
Click to expand...

A WMA is a compressed file, much like an MP3.
 
Well, one common problem is that things sound totally awesome in Pro Tools, then you bounce them, and then you play them next to your CD collection, and it sounds tiny and thin. That doesn't mean Pro Tools sucks, or your mix sucks. It means that mastering engineers have figured out how to crush commercial CDs to the point of oblivion, such that your music will never be as loud, and will always sound thin and weak next to them.
 
I don't use pro tools, but I remember talking to this guy about it, and he kept saying, "Pro tools has a lot of problems with its stereo bus, when we dumped our track into the stereo bus it sounded like crap, blah blah blah..." And I just thought he was stupid at the time, but maybe he was having the same experience you guys are having. Maybe there is something to it. I know the lower end Digi stuff isn't highly regarded for its convertors, but that doesn't sound like the problem that you're having. I'll be interested to see if anyone comes up with something.
 
Check out this article (in particular technique 1):

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_november02/protechniques/american_idol/index.cfm

And this for a better understanding of summing in PT:

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_october03/techtalk/

My 2 cents,

Leave the master fader at 0, and do not use it to control the overall level at all, it is superfluous if you are using good gain staging other than seeing a readout of the overall level and checking for clipping.
 
thanks dude, i read the article, it may help... i usually do have it clipping a little on the main fader... so ill turn all the individual tracks down 3 dbs or so... so when i limit it in soundforge it wont already have that squashed sound that the clipping makes... ill try it tonight or tromm. night and post my progress.
 
make sure u use a dither plug in... i read thoise damn articles and after what they said you would be in idiote not too, so do it...
 
lbcstudios said:
... i usually do have it clipping a little on the main fader...
Click to expand...

This will make a huge difference in clarity (don't know if it will make it sound "bigger" to you). I get tracks like these all the time for mastering, and I send them back and tell the people to lower all their faders. Remember that if you have fader automation, to first put an automation dot almost at the end of your session, then select the WHOLE session in your edit window, and finally lower the levels using the "trimmer" tool. :cool: Good luck.
 
charger no and others here is the deal in a daw you have to compress going into the computer have to have to have to. You have to push at least -3 db on the meters without going over aka a limiter softwear compression doesnt cut it going in its good for leveling but not for getting the volume into the box, second here is what no one has mentioned on the 001 you have inserts on the master fader instead of using a softwear compressor try using a hardwear version even a cheap one will work a lot better then a softwear compressor i know what im talking about try using a manly compressor over a waves plug in the plug in will start to pop and clip and make audible noises a manly you can slam the hell out of it and still be fine, but were not on a manly price range here soo ive had good results using a presonus smart compressor on the master fader try it and see for yourself.
 
masteringhouse said:
Check out this article (in particular technique 1):

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_november02/protechniques/american_idol/index.cfm

And this for a better understanding of summing in PT:

http://www.digidesign.com/digizine/archive/digizine_october03/techtalk/

My 2 cents,

Leave the master fader at 0, and do not use it to control the overall level at all, it is superfluous if you are using good gain staging other than seeing a readout of the overall level and checking for clipping.
Click to expand...


Thanks for those great articles!!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top