My poor les paul! :(

[ZoSo58LP]

..she fell off the stand last night, and my headstock cracked :'(

it's my brothers guitar, but he said he didn't really feel as sad when it happened as he thought, because in the year and a half he's had it, it didn't satisfy him as he thought it would...it's a Les Paul Studio...my brother wants to use it as our summer project, because he doesn't want to spend like $300+ to get the thing repaired since he doesn't care much, and he wants to do it himself, because at the cost of f'ing it up, he doesn't really care...but since it's set neck, i take it there's no way to buy a replacement neck? I'm lookin for Light's answer to all of this..i know you'll tell me to bring it to a trained luthier and everything but my brother's just probably going to buy a new strat and he wants to work on this one over the summer *sand her down, get a new finish, new hardware, add the binding lol* and all of that...but I need a direction to look in to find neck replacement? we were thinking of gluing or possibly screwing it wehre the crack is, but glue would just ensure years of it coming out of tune because the string tension would probably keep it out of place..hmm?

 

[ZoSo58LP]

another pic..

 

[Ed Dixon]

I believe you will need a new neck. I would not try any other options for an LP.

These are not easy to repair, so finding a good service center will be key.

I'd check with your home owners insurance to see if that covers anything for this accident.

Ed

 

[christiaan]

Man, that looks nasty!
I had something like that a couple of months ago although not as near as bad (bass fell, chuck of wood broke off the body, damaged the cavity).
Good that your brother isn't too attached to the instrument but this just sucks.

 

[Ed Dixon]

Decades ago I leaned a friends SG against a wall. It fell and popped the neck clean off. No wood broke, it just popped out of the glue seal as the body.

My dad managed to repair it, but it was not pretty at all. This one looks worse.

Ed

 

[revoltingyouth]

if it is just a player just reglue it, seriously i own a few guitars that have had broken headstock, one firebird 7 and a les paul. never had a problem with tuning. if you use titebond, trust me, it will not go out of tune. just get a bunch of glue in there and use a band clamp to around the guitar (from headstock to bridge direction) and tighten it up. the tension will pull the headstock back to the origonal location. wipe off all the glue squirt out. and let it dry for a day.
that looks to be a very clean break too. you may be able to get away with just a shot of lacquer over the top. and most people would never know.
it will never break in that place ever again if you do this. the glue joint is stronger than the wood was to begin with.
also since the head stock is still attached, you can just glue clamp and go. the peg head veneer will keep every thing aligned.

long story short, if you know a little wood working skills you can fix it alot easier than most people think. and alot stronger than most people think.

 

[grinder]

That can be reglued, shouldn't be a problem. Work yellow glue into the joint as be as you can, without splitting it any farther. If there are any splinters of wood, make sure they are lining back up. Don't use a band clamp, though. C-clamps are the way to go. Get at least two, three if you have the room and use cauls on either side of the headstock, so you don't mar the finish. A piece of wax paper between the headstock and caul, will keep the caul from being glued to your guitar. StewMac has touch up kits for finishes. Some dye and laquer will put you back in business.

 

[juststartingout]

Duct tape ... it will give it character!!

 

[Light]

That is a fairly simple repair, but not a do it your self repair. You are fortunate, because the break appears to be with the grain, so it will hold glue well. The guitar is certainly worth the money, and getting a good repair is particularly important if you are not happy with the guitar, as a well repaired crack does not noticeably damage the value of the guitar, whereas a poorly repaired crack will wipe out the value of the guitar. The difference in resale value is much bigger than the cost of the repair, I promise. Properly repaired, the glue joint can resist shock force better than the wood. Just don't let it get hot, or the glue will soften and then you are really screwed.

It will not, however, cost anything like $300. We could do it for $55 to $100, with no touch up. I would not advise you get the guitar touched up. Touch up is rarely cost effective, and would not be in this case. Even with out touchup, the repair can be nearly invisible. The guitar, after the repair, is worth around $1000. It is absolutely worth $100 to get it fixed right. And though C-clamps and cauls are involved, there is much more to it than that. Get it done by someone who has already learned to avoid the mistakes you will make.

One important issue, though. Get it in to a good repair shop soon, because wood will oxidize, causing it to not accept glue nearly as well. If that happens, the repair becomes much less secure, or much more expensive.

And you absolutely will NOT need a new neck. The guitar is more valuable with a repaired original neck (assuming it is repaired properly) than with a new neck, even if you could get an original Gibson neck.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[crazydoc]

That is a fairly simple repair, but not a do it your self repair....
... And though C-clamps and cauls are involved, there is much more to it than that. Get it done by someone who has already learned to avoid the mistakes you will make.

And what is so tough about it?

 

[revoltingyouth]

And what is so tough about it? [/QUOTE]

thats what im saying, if you have general wood working knowledge, there is really nothing hard about it.

oh yeah, and the band clamp trick works great, try it sometime if you dont trust me.

 

[Light]

Feel free to try it your self, and when you get it wrong I will be happy to take the $300 it will cost to fix your mistake. I see so many of these that people mess up, either by using the wrong glue, clamping it poorly, not taking into account the swelling of the wood from the glue (Tightbond is water based, after all), or just not taking care to get the alignment right. If you have a guitar which is worth about $1000 when fixed right, and about $500 when fixed wrong, why would you want to risk doing it wrong when the repair done right is less than $100.

You can do it yourself, and you might get it OK. If you have it done by someone good, you will never feel the break. You will see it, but not feel it.

Why risk it when you can get it done right. Or fix it yourself, and some repair shop will be $300 closer to paying their tax bill.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ZoSo58LP]

thanks light! my friend had a crack in his Les like mine, and he said it took him $300! and it took a month and a half at the shop. So that's the only reason I said $300, but since it's a lot cheaper than expected, I shall tell my brother thanks a bunch!

 

[grinder]

oh yeah, and the band clamp trick works great, try it sometime if you dont trust me.

A band clamp won't exert no where near the pressure c-clamps will. Also, the c-clamp method is applying pressure directly to the joint, where as the band clamp method is applying the pressure indirectly, because you are pulling on the neck. If it worked for you, great, but I think you got lucky. If the head stock breaks off across the grain, a good clamping method is to use a wooden screw clamp across each half of the headstock and c-clamp across the screw clamps, to pull the halves together. It's a much more difficult repair than the one in question.

Light, you are right about taking it to a pro. Unfortunatly, the repair shops in my area are hacks and being a professional woodworker, I taught myself to repair and build my own guitars. I sometimes forget that some people don't have a clue, when it comes to doing things, that come easy to me. That's not meant as a slam to anyone, it's just hard to tell the skills of someone you don't know anything about.

 

[Light]

thanks light! my friend had a crack in his Les like mine, and he said it took him $300! and it took a month and a half at the shop. So that's the only reason I said $300, but since it's a lot cheaper than expected, I shall tell my brother thanks a bunch!

They where probably doing touchup, or else the repair person felt the area needed structural reenforcement, which is the case if the runs across the grain. From the pictures, this does not appear to be the case. This being said, I have not actually held the guitar in my hand and looked at it. If you take it to a shop, and they say differently, listen to them. There is no substitute for an experenced eye, and a photograph is not the same thing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

If the head stock breaks off across the grain, a good clamping method is to use a wooden screw clamp across each half of the headstock and c-clamp across the screw clamps, to pull the halves together. It's a much more difficult repair than the one in question.

For a moment, I thought you where suggesting screwing the peghead back together. This, of course, would be wrong on many counts. First of all, it is just wrong. Second of all, the screws would weaken the wood. Third, screws don't hold well the way they would have to go in. Of course, neither does glue. But fortunately, you where not suggesting this. Good thing too, or I would have flamed you down to charcoal. And you are right, a band clamp is an inconsistent, and unreliable method of clamping.

End grain breaks are the reason broken headstock repairs sometimes cost $300. We don't get all that concerned about the alignment for these breaks, we just get them reasonably close. Neck, we use the idle drum from our belt sander to scoop out the wood surrounding the break, making sure to do this in one pass. We then fill that scoop with a piece of wood, matching the direction, and grain of the neck. The great benefit of this method is that you can actually see all parts of the joint as you are fitting the patched in piece of wood, and it also has a very long gluing surface, which is almost all long grain, which takes glue well. After shaping the first patch, we will usually do one or (on really bad breaks) two more. Once all of the patches are in place, with a careful sunbursting of the new lacquer around the break, and you absolutely can not see the repair, and it is stronger than neck was in the first place.

That's not meant as a slam to anyone, it's just hard to tell the skills of someone you don't know anything about.

Ask them some questions. Ask them how they do repairs. If they are less than forthcoming, or if anything they do seems wrong, be concerned. Don't immediately run away, though, as some repair techniques are a little scary in the hands of an amateur.

For instance, we use a specially ground chisel to apply shock to the glue joint to remove bridges. This, when done right, causes much less damage to top than removing it with heat, which is a more common process. It also takes less time, and is therefore less expensive. If you do it wrong, you can split the bridge, and cause pretty severe damage to the top. I would not allow an inexperienced repair person to do this to my guitar, but I would not hesitate to let anyone of our repair people do this. By the way, we learned this from Stu Mossman and the Martin factory repair folks back in the seventies. It works incredibly well, but don't even begin to believe I have told you enough to do it yourself.

If in doubt, feel free to ask me my opinion. I really am only here because I want to help. Ask yourself some questions. Is the shop clean and organized? It does not need to be spotless, but you will find that the more experienced a person is, the more concern they have for a clean bench (my father is an exception to this, though. You have never seen a mess as bad as his bench on a normal day). Are their tools well organized? This is again, very much a sign of experience. The better you get at this stuff, the more you get into a routine for where you want your tools. Keeping them organized helps you work efficiently, and that means fast. Most shops should have some finished instruments waiting to be picked up. If they are not in cases, take a look. How does the work look? Don't ask us to open up cases, though. We don't show anyone our customer’s guitars, for obvious security reasons.

The best questions you can ask though, is to find the best players in your area, and ask them who they use. They will usually know. There is no advertising in this business as good as word of mouth. For the most part, you can usually go with you gut instincts.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[grinder]

For a moment, I thought you where suggesting screwing the peghead back together. This, of course, would be wrong on many counts. First of all, it is just wrong. Second of all, the screws would weaken the wood. Third, screws don't hold well the way they would have to go in. Of course, neither does glue. But fortunately, you where not suggesting this. Good thing too, or I would have flamed you down to charcoal.

Of course not, I would expect to be flogged with an xlr cable for such foolishness. I did build a curved router sled and route for splines, though. What I meant about not knowing others skills, is that, I said that the headstock repair is a simple repair, forgetting that for others without much woodworking expiriance and proper tools, it could be a disaster.

 

[ZoSo58LP]

hey light, we brought it somewhere...wouldve cost 85 bucks for just glue, but we spent the extra to have...oh jeez i forget what they're called, but it was extra wood pieces for support in tehre...but it cost $125....and my bro had him put in new Grover tuners too, bc the ones on the studio sucked horribly, and with our luck they had one set of gold ones left so the Les should be fine wtihin a week or 2!