my ongoing quest for a straightforward, no nonsense daw

[bouldersoundguy]

Believe it or not, I'm actually just trying to help. ButI'm not going to put on a schoolgirl outfit and sugar-coat things. (I do that on my own time)

Eeeewwww...

But anyway, I thought I'd drop in and mention that word length (bits) doesn't mean resolution, it means signal to noise ratio. One bit represents approximately 6.02dB regardless of the number of bits.

And also, if the other engineer can't deal with and do good work with 44.1kHz or 48kHz sampling frequency files he's not going to be any better with 96kHz or 192kHz files.

 

[miroslav]

...i've been recording for over fifty years.

I don't know how savvy you are with computers and digital technology...but I have seen a lot of old timers (and I'm no spring chicken either) cringe and grovel at the feet of most decent DAWs when first starting to work with them.
It's a different mindset, and some folks can wrap their heads around it easily/quickly, while others just always fight and struggle with the technology.
It has nothing to do with being an idiot or not....it's more about comfort zones.

I've used a few different DAWs over the years since back in the early '90s, and none of them were immediately obvious, especially when you start digging deeper for more features. There is always a learning curve, and you just need to put some time into it before the DAW becomes as simple as a decent analog console (which I bet you are quite comfortable with). Heck...most of the newbie computer/DAW only guys would have trouble around a robust analog console...so don't feel bad and get all frustrated.

Also...not all DAWs are the same, and some will feel awkward even when you know where all the buttons are...so you have to find the DAW that is most compatible with your style and the whole visual thing, as DAW appeal relies a lot on its GUI appeal.

My current DAW of choice is Samplitude...which is by no means simple/quick to learn, but at the same time, I didn't spend time reading every page of the manual...and they have a great user support forum where you can get answers quick.
That said....I've also been working with A/V and multimedia applications for over twenty years, so with each new app...it becomes much easier/quicker to get up and running.

Don't get frustrated.....

 

[david henman]

So you read the manual and found the drop-down menu and it still took you hours to turn on a metronome in REAPER? Yup, it must be the software's fault.

...i followed the instructions to the letter - they are dead simple. i was able to turn the metronome/click track on and off. i was not able to hear it on the track i was working on, which was a template i was trying to set up.

on another track, one which my engineer had set up, i was able to hear it.

i had spent two days trying to set up that template, running into many, many other problems.

it was the proverbial last straw...

 

[david henman]

I suggest you try Reaper again. Take a few hours, read the first half of the manual, import the tracks form one of your garageband projects and play wiht the Reaper features a little - the built-in FX, EQ, compression, panning. You can learn things like automation as you find the need for it (you will).
You want better features than you have with garageband, but want them without any effort. Your age and past experience has nothing to do with it, you have to WANT TO learn to use whatever tool works to do what you want. The results speak for themselves - a little work pays big dividends.

...give me a couple of weeks. i will be back here to prove you wrong.

i don't touch eq, by the way. ever.

 

[david henman]

Once again......Does Garageband record wav files?
You have 3 options:
1) Yes
2) No
3) I don't know.

...there's a fourth option: ask my recording engineer. he understands things like bit resolution, sampling frequencies etc.

that's his job.

but, yeah, i send him garageband wav files.

 

[david henman]

OK, so I looked at garageband and it does record 16 or 24 bit wav files.
So, my question is, why does this "professional recording engineer with his own recording studio" have to This makes no sense. There should no time consuming labour involved. Again, this makes no sense either.
I'm not blaming Dave H. for not knowing these things. But it looks like a case of being mis-lead by someone who's supposed to know what they're doing, but doesn't.
Believe it or not, I'm actually just trying to help. ButI'm not going to put on a schoolgirl outfit and sugar-coat things. (I do that on my own time)

...for guy who doesn't know me, or my recording engineer, you make a lot of assumptions. it doesn't look good on you, school girl outfit notwithstanding.

my recording engineer does amazing work. if you doubt that, google "house of not" and take a listen.

he's also a great guy. i'm just trying to impose on his patience and time as little as possible.

 

[david henman]

...incidentally, the existence of literally scores, if not hundreds, of forums like this one, populated by thousands of people all wrestling with a seemingly infinite assortment of issues surrounding computer recording, is a pretty substantial testament to the fact that computer recording is fraught with them.

 

[david henman]

...i've been doing exactly as you suggest for two entire years.
unfortunately, only now are manufacturers like propellerhead and presonus intruding the software i was searching for.
but garageband proved that it could be done!

Pick a software suite that meets all of your needs and then find a friend, colleague, local studio, or anyone at all who knows how to use it.

Write a short list of what you want to do and spend two hours being shown.

Really in this day and age, even the most complicated of software is simplified by way of seemingly endless youtube tutorials.
Modern society is so desperate for youtube hits that you'll probably find a 'how to tie a shoe lace' tutorial.

If you're threw the towel in at the installing and opening stage, you need someone to get your started.

That's my best advice.

 

[RAMI]

...there's a fourth option: ask my recording engineer. he understands things like bit resolution, sampling frequencies etc.

that's his job.

but, yeah, i send him garageband wav files.

Actually, that would be Option 3. Nothing wrong with that, but that's what it is.

But I will add this, whether you're sick of hearing it or not. If you don't even know what a wave file is (even though I find that strange considering that's what you're sending him), then you're in no position to blame the equipment. If you're not willing to learn the most basic of terms and actions, and expect everything to just drop into place for you, you might as well give this up and buy a tape recorder....which will have it's own set of un-user-friendly problems, but that's another therapy session.

 

[RAMI]

...for guy who doesn't know me, or my recording engineer, you make a lot of assumptions. it doesn't look good on you, school girl outfit notwithstanding.

my recording engineer does amazing work. if you doubt that, google "house of not" and take a listen.

he's also a great guy. i'm just trying to impose on his patience and time as little as possible.

They're not assumptions. They're conclusions based on the information you're providing.

There is no time consuming labour involved in transferring wave files. It's drag and drop. That's a fact.

If your recording engineer is telling you he likes to work in higher resolutions that Garageband can provide, he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he's making things way too complicated for nothing, which doesn't help you at all. That's also a fact.

I'm sure he does great work. Doesn't mean he's always right and in this case, doesn't mean he knows everything.

 

[david henman]

16 bit vs 24 bit. A Project at Hi Res 24 Bit can still use 16 bit audio files.
I use REAPER and quite easy to use. Works like a real hardware recorded, to me. I haven't gone deep with REAPER, mostly arming tracks & recording, then using some EQ, etc, then doing a mix.
Have recorded multi-track live off the floor, one track at a time, or drummer with rhythm guitar via headphones to get a recording rolling. I'm using Alesis MultiMix 16 USB 2.0 as my audio interface.
I just did a project where I recorded 3 guitar tracks with REAPER using a basic mix so far on MP3 (vocals, bass, drums), and then forwarded my 24 bit tracks, burned 3 files to DVD to give him, and he mixed with Pro Tools.
David, I recognize your name. Just checked, 16 mutual friends on FB, too.
Johnny from Scarberia

...hey, johnny!
i may go back to propellerhead, not for reaper, but for their new "record" software.
incidentally, were you able to record drum tracks from scratch on reaper, or is that no the way you program drums?
i don't use pre-recorded loops.
i create my drum tracks one hit at a time, using a midi keyboard.

 

[mjbphotos]

David - you are getting Propellhead's Reason confused with Reaper, so maybe you haven't tried Reaper at all? REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits You can download and try it out for free.
Reaper allows you to program drums via MIDI, but you have to have a VSTi (virtual instrument with drum sounds) such as EZ Drummer. Reason has a built-in drum VSTi (and other instruments). Reason also costs $450, Reaper is $60, leaving you plenty of cash for EZ Drummer, or other plug-ins or hardware, mics and instruments.

 

[Steenamaroo]

...i've been doing exactly as you suggest for two entire years.
unfortunately, only now are manufacturers like propellerhead and presonus intruding the software i was searching for.
but garageband proved that it could be done!

Spending two weeks on the phone with customer support wasn't what I suggested.
In fact, it was the reason I made my suggestion.

Get a real life human being to sit beside you and get your software set up. That way you hit the ground running.

Ok, you might not know someone who can help, and that's fair enough, but I'm pretty sure if you lived nextdoor to me or RAMI or someone, you wouldn't have been back and forth with customer support for a few weeks.

 

[david henman]

Spending two weeks on the phone with customer support wasn't what I suggested.
In fact, it was the reason I made my suggestion.
Get a real life human being to sit beside you and get your software set up. That way you hit the ground running.
Ok, you might not know someone who can help, and that's fair enough, but I'm pretty sure if you lived nextdoor to me or RAMI or someone, you wouldn't have been back and forth with customer support for a few weeks.

...i'd love to find someone who has that kind of time.

i paid an IT guy $200 to get me started on this.

about all i got out of that was a lot of advice to spend a lot of money! although he did set up the external hard drive i bought at staples.

at least, i think he did...

 

[david henman]

David - you are getting Propellhead's Reason confused with Reaper, so maybe you haven't tried Reaper at all? REAPER | Audio Production Without Limits You can download and try it out for free.
Reaper allows you to program drums via MIDI, but you have to have a VSTi (virtual instrument with drum sounds) such as EZ Drummer. Reason has a built-in drum VSTi (and other instruments). Reason also costs $450, Reaper is $60, leaving you plenty of cash for EZ Drummer, or other plug-ins or hardware, mics and instruments.

...you're right. it was reaper that i bought, because $60 seemed reasonable. i still have the 398-page manual sitting here next to me. i found it next to impossible to get started, so i asked for, and got, a refund. nice folks.

that was two years ago, so i'll take another look at the manual now, to see if it makes sense.

however, for the moment, i'm not throwing any more money at this until some questions get answered.

 

[Track Rat]

What city are you in David?

 

[gecko zzed]

I'm thinking that this thread is coming to the end of its usefulness. The OP, though outlining his frustration at computer-based recording programs in his quest for something more straightforward, didn't actually ask a question.

There were two points that seemed to cause the OP some grief:

1 the guy who does his mixing has a problem with Garageband; and
2 the OP would like to record more simultaneous tracks than Garageband can accommodate.

In relation to the first, if the OP isn't doing this already, he can simply send the recorded WAV files to the drop-box, rather than the whole GB project. It then gives the engineer the simplest of tasks, i.e. inserting WAVs (any WAVS) into a Cubase project.

In relation to the second: The number of tracks you can record simultaneously may be limited by GB, but will also be limited by the interface. I don't think we heard what interface the OP is using.

I appreciate the OP's frustration with computer recording. I recall it took me nearly two months to get audio recording to work in Logic in the mid-nineties. As the OP is doing no processing other than recording, the complexity of DAWs is, for him, an unnecessary hindrance.

That being the case, though, just about any DAW will do the job without the user needing to get into the complexities. For example, in Reaper, just load it up, create however many tracks you want, set each track's input channel, hit record. Hit stop. Drag the folder with the recorded files into the dropbox. Done.

Getting more than eight tracks at once? A bit more complicated, because specific hardware is needed (and maybe software too).

 

[grimtraveller]

There is no escape except to go completely mad !

David, you have my sympathies !
Manuals can be salvation or crucifiction and some of them do appear to be written in some ancient tongue that one needs a Phd in linguistics to decipher. I also have observed that some people grasp things fairly easilly while others seem to have endless hassles with the same things. But then, all of life is like that. The night before he died, my Dad told me that though he knew maths inside out, he was a lousy teacher because he got frustrated when students couldn't grasp what he could grasp in a flash. He could not see that what he found so simple, others might not.
We're all different.
I had interminable problems with Cubase when I first got SE. I was only using it at the time {this was 2004} to house my virtual instruments. It was ages before I managed to connect my MIDI keyboard to it and get it working. I spent more than 2 weeks trying to get through to the tech support in Germany and when I did get through, they'd have me holding for more than an hour. And who can spend an hour holding on an international call ? Then when I did speak to someone, though his English was great, he spoke in that techy lingo that I simply couldn't fathom. In the end, I managed to get my keyboard connected but it was by sheer fluke and to this day I don't know how I did it ! I literally used to fiddle about with the computer each evening and one day I pressed the key on the MIDI keyboard and sound came out of the computer speaker ! Merry Christmas !
When I'd e~mail tech support of any company, I'd ask them to explain the answer in simple language that a 9 year old that knew nothing about computers would understand. The only one that half managed it was Dave at GMedia. I remember being struck by how difficult the technical guys found it to explain something in simple English without the insider reference jargon.
Maybe they write the manuals !
And paying someone to show you the steps isn't necesarilly that profitable. Over here, it's big business but having done one myself, I have a bad taste in my mouth about them. The guy I got was nice enough but I learned nothing. He couldn't do the one simple thing I really wanted and on the things he could do, he went so fast it was hard to pick up. In the end, I had to write off the £50 as the price of an education........
I can understand why at 65 you don't want to "become an engineer"; for those of us that do want to record and mix our stuff, we have little choice but to traverse the learning curve. There are some on this site that have downloaded the freebie test versions of the various software packages in an attempt to find which one fits where they are at. That might be one way to go if you can spare the time.
A rhetorical question ~ if you find that no programme is as straightforward as you need it to be, what will you do ?

 

[ollie99]

I will suggest reaper again, and I will tell you to watch all the sonic orb studio tutorials on youtube, really helpful and the guy explains every little button, after that I knew pretty much everything I needed to know to get going, they arent that long either, no more than 2 hours in total

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm thinking that this thread is coming to the end of its usefulness. The OP, though outlining his frustration at computer-based recording programs in his quest for something more straightforward, didn't actually ask a question.

That's a fact ! But sometimes a rant is a good basis for some further ranting.