ez_willis
.
my room is already built. to do it right would mean tearing it down and starting over, and the quality of mixes that i'm getting isn't bad enough to justify the expense nor the trouble, but i wish it did.
my room is already built. to do it right would mean tearing it down and starting over, and the quality of mixes that i'm getting isn't bad enough to justify the expense nor the trouble, but i wish it did.
kcearl
I see deaf people
I haven't...my mixes have improved tenfold in 6 months..
I doubt any hobbyist has a spare $1500 to blow on room treatment and monitors in the beginning...its not even necessary to learn the basics..Ive only started treating my room now after a year, would've been pointless until recently....
there were plenty in there trying in treated rooms with (semi) expensive monitors...I never said they'd reach "professional" levels...but hey there's another one soon...maybe you and some others have a spare hour or two to show us how its done properly?
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
It's not like it's that much. Start with $800 if you have to.
What do you think the basics are? Monitors aren't just necessary to learn the basics: They're about the only think you even need to learn the basics outside of a free DAW and something to make sound.
To me, the basics are:
*gain structure (yeah, you can learn without monitors)
*How sounds relate to each other and interact when mixed together
*How sounds change when their relative loudness is raised or lowered in a mix
*How sounds change with EQ
*How sounds change with dynamics
*Learning how to make a mix that translates to all speakers.
An hour or two? Try 8 hours or more.
kcearl
I see deaf people
OK 8 hours, 6 hours, whatever it takes you.....you wont anyway
you dont need $1500...if you've got it great...but its just another case of people in this forum teaching n00bs to open walnuts with a sledgehammer
I bet if the OP sent his files to half those hanging around this BBS without $1500 worth of monitors and/or room treatment he'd be pretty impressed....
but of course if you live in a rented or shared apartment, with limited funds dont even bother starting, because you'll sound shit and never learn to mix...shoot yourself instead and your partner can use the insurance to build a studio
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
First of all, I'm usually the first to say DON'T spend money on a new preamp/DAW/plugin/mic/whatever. Way too many n00bs want to throw money at a problem that simply requires better skill with what they already have, and I'm more than happy to tell them that.
But there are barriers to entry in this field. There are barriers to entry in any field. You wouldn't learn to drive a race car without a race car. You wouldn't learn to play baseball without a bat and a practice squad to pitch and field. You wouldn't learn cinematography without lights and diffusers. And you wouldn't learn sound without speakers.
It's not being elitist and it is not crushing the dreams of the downtrodden, young, and poor. It is just how it is. The best way to make a loud song involves being loud. The best way to make accurate sound involves having accurate sound yourself.
Anything else is a delusional at worst and a tangle of compromise at best.
The good news is that relatively speaking, it's still really, really cheap to do this sort of thing these days. But first you have to drop the sense of entitlement and work for it.
kcearl
I see deaf people
true I did get 4 auralex bass traps for $25...now if I can just find a set of Adam A7's for $75 I'll be halfway there....
Now as for sense of entitlement, its certainly a phrase thrown about enough but I rarely see that many examples of it...more people dont even know what to ask or even how to ask it...but this is just imho
wouldnt want a 5 page flame war where Im that bad clown again..
Now as for sense of entitlement, its certainly a phrase thrown about enough but I rarely see that many examples of it...more people dont even know what to ask or even how to ask it...but this is just imho
wouldnt want a 5 page flame war where Im that bad clown again..
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
wouldnt want a 5 page flame war where Im that bad clown again..
I guess not. So...I've said my bit.
noisewreck
New member
Never trust a Guitar Center Employee. Hasn't your mom taught you that?
Honestly the K240Ss aren't bad, certainly better than some others. But they don't seem to have the same well defined bottom as the Sennheiser hd 650s for example, and thus make it somewhat difficult to judge the low end. They also may contribute to having the mids mixed in lower than what they should be.
You either need to learn those characteristics and work around them, or get yourself proper monitors, with proper room treatment.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Never trust a Guitar Center Employee. Hasn't your mom taught you that?
NOW THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Of course he would. It's easy to impress newbs who haven't developed the critical listening skills yet. That means nothing more than one can fool the easily fooled. What kind of twisted logic is it to say that a bunch of people that don't have the ears to mix their own stuff yet are even close to qualified to decide who creates good mixes and who doesn't?
Where is it written that everybody is entitled to create great mixes? Everybody is entitled to *try*, everybody has the right to *pursue* happiness, which takes effort and usually at least *some* money, but nobody is entitled to have happiness delivered to them on a silver platter.
If someone can't afford to record, then they can't afford to record, it's that simple. I can't afford a lot of things I'd really like to have or do. I have learned that I have two choices; I can either wait to save up until I can afford it, or I can just let it go. But I certainly don't expect to be able to get everything I want for nothing.
And I for one never said - I don't think that many of us ever have said - that it take $1500 of treatment to make a serviceably-sounding room. In best case circumstances, it can be done for zero money and and afternoon of home re-decoration. In worst case situations it can cost $1500 and a few weekends of elbow grease. In most cases, it can be some for closer to the former than that later.
I have news for you: in my home studio, I have not spent a dime on room treatment, but I have taken the time and effort to arrange my room in such a way whereas I can get proper-sounding mixes. And in the company studio, all the baffles and bass traps and diffusers for both the live room and control room combined cost maybe about $350 in material from Home Depot and maybe about 20 man hours of labor to make and install.
It's ludicrous for someone to say they can't afford a couple of hundred hundred bucks at Home Depot and a couple of weekends in the garage making a couple of gobos or temporary bass traps when they show pictures of their home setups that include a few grand worth of guitars or drums or both, another grand worth of cheap shit microphones and interface, a few hundred bucks worth of stomp boxes, a thousand dollars worth of computer, and a few hundred bucks of cables to put all that stuff together.
G.
kcearl
I see deaf people
geezuz glen, its like attrition...I really dont care enough to go through this with you...I really dont, for once Im recording in my poorly treated room and shit monitors and quite frankly... I may even mix it in the bathroom..and it will be awesome
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
The smartest thing you've said since you've decided to waste your own time by coming here.
G.
kcearl
I see deaf people
you couldnt leave it could you? you pompous arse
I fucking love it here...when Ive finished doing what Im doing Ill come back and answer your drivel in full as apparently that's what's required..fuck me <facepalm>
btw $1500 post #15, where did I say you said it?
themdla
New member
Being in the n00b school I can give you a few pointers....
1) when buying headphones test out 3 or more different models, head to head, with your favorite professionally mixed and mastered track (that you love the mix of or know very well) and see what each set of headphones does to the mix and eq of the track.
Is the bass clear? How’s the isolation? Are the sounds fatiguing or harsh to listen to? Is there depth and space? Can you hear effects? Can you hear details like pick scratches and edits? Etc...
I did the following @ guitar center for an hour in a quite room by my self and could hear extreme differences between each pair of headphones I checked. Pick the headphones that sound best to you! Everyone’s ears are different and you have to find headphones/monitors that provide YOU the most clarity.
2) After finding headphones you like start testing this same mix (that you love and know so well) on monitors, computer speakers, boom boxes... ask yourself
The same questions and a few others
How is the bass represented? Is the sound harsh? Can I hear the reverb and effects distinctly? Is there detail or mud? Etc...
This will give you a good picture of how different certain situations can be...
3) take this track (from the steps before) and import it into your recording session at home. You will have to lower the volume level of the imported track to meet your overall mix level as professionally mixed and mastered tracks are much louder than your tracks.
Now listen to this track through your existing monitoring setup. Start a /b ing back and forth between the imported track and your mixes.
What are the differences? How are individual instruments eq'd in comparison between the tracks? What about reverb levels and mix depth? Etc...
These are your first steps and will teach you a lot about critical listening as long as you try to define the differences you are hearing in objective terms.
aka: low, mid, high, right, left, wet, dry, harsh, muddy, thin, fat, etc...
After all this you can get some monitors but in my limited experience it can be hard to get accurate/translatable mixes from monitors in an untreated room unless you compensate for the problem frequencies. If you find a set of headphones you like and can "learn” then a/b ing those against monitors in an untreated room can give you a better picture of what's going on. In fact the more sources you can listen to your recordings on the better!
You’ll know when a mix is translating well because every instrument will be clearly audible without being overpowering on every system you test on
1) when buying headphones test out 3 or more different models, head to head, with your favorite professionally mixed and mastered track (that you love the mix of or know very well) and see what each set of headphones does to the mix and eq of the track.
Is the bass clear? How’s the isolation? Are the sounds fatiguing or harsh to listen to? Is there depth and space? Can you hear effects? Can you hear details like pick scratches and edits? Etc...
I did the following @ guitar center for an hour in a quite room by my self and could hear extreme differences between each pair of headphones I checked. Pick the headphones that sound best to you! Everyone’s ears are different and you have to find headphones/monitors that provide YOU the most clarity.
2) After finding headphones you like start testing this same mix (that you love and know so well) on monitors, computer speakers, boom boxes... ask yourself
The same questions and a few others
How is the bass represented? Is the sound harsh? Can I hear the reverb and effects distinctly? Is there detail or mud? Etc...
This will give you a good picture of how different certain situations can be...
3) take this track (from the steps before) and import it into your recording session at home. You will have to lower the volume level of the imported track to meet your overall mix level as professionally mixed and mastered tracks are much louder than your tracks.
Now listen to this track through your existing monitoring setup. Start a /b ing back and forth between the imported track and your mixes.
What are the differences? How are individual instruments eq'd in comparison between the tracks? What about reverb levels and mix depth? Etc...
These are your first steps and will teach you a lot about critical listening as long as you try to define the differences you are hearing in objective terms.
aka: low, mid, high, right, left, wet, dry, harsh, muddy, thin, fat, etc...
After all this you can get some monitors but in my limited experience it can be hard to get accurate/translatable mixes from monitors in an untreated room unless you compensate for the problem frequencies. If you find a set of headphones you like and can "learn” then a/b ing those against monitors in an untreated room can give you a better picture of what's going on. In fact the more sources you can listen to your recordings on the better!
You’ll know when a mix is translating well because every instrument will be clearly audible without being overpowering on every system you test on
L
leaningpine
New member
You're in the same situation I was in a few months ago, I was mixing through Harmon Kardon computer speakers, my mixes were close but too bassy, then I tried headphones, too muddy, then I tried home stereo speakers, all over the place lol!
The guy at guitar center is just like any salesmen, of course he's gonna tell you their great to mix on!, he wants the sale. If you go in with knowledge about what you want ahead of time either the salesmen will direct you to someone else or he won't bullshit you because you know what you're talking about.
I looked up the wharfdales and would suggest the Rokit's. The frequency response is the same on both but the Rokit's are flatter so you'll get a more accurate mix. I have a set of Rokit's and I think they're great.
I also used to use Adobe Audition 3.0 and recently bought Propellerheads Record program. So far I love it, the mixer based on an SSL console has enough flexibility to make things sound great, the effects are powerful and the mastering section sounds a hell of alot better than what I've gotten out of T-racks or Ozone 4. Record doesn't support VST's but to be honest, I really don't use any wild effects, and if I do use them, I have the fun of figuring out what to use to get the effect I want instead of having it instantly as a VST. Record just made my mixes sound a hell of alot clearer than audition,
The guy at guitar center is just like any salesmen, of course he's gonna tell you their great to mix on!, he wants the sale. If you go in with knowledge about what you want ahead of time either the salesmen will direct you to someone else or he won't bullshit you because you know what you're talking about.
I looked up the wharfdales and would suggest the Rokit's. The frequency response is the same on both but the Rokit's are flatter so you'll get a more accurate mix. I have a set of Rokit's and I think they're great.
I also used to use Adobe Audition 3.0 and recently bought Propellerheads Record program. So far I love it, the mixer based on an SSL console has enough flexibility to make things sound great, the effects are powerful and the mastering section sounds a hell of alot better than what I've gotten out of T-racks or Ozone 4. Record doesn't support VST's but to be honest, I really don't use any wild effects, and if I do use them, I have the fun of figuring out what to use to get the effect I want instead of having it instantly as a VST. Record just made my mixes sound a hell of alot clearer than audition,
B
BLP
New member
Why does the cowboy and clown fight all thru these forums is there some kind of epic battle going on? lol
but really thanks for all the replies
maybe I should say that I'm not a complete noob.........at all.
And the way I asked my question prolly sounded weird.
I have built myself a recording booth already a long time ago and have treated it with acoustic foam so the vocal comes out great to start with
the only thing I'm guilty of is never buying studio monitors I just used some dell speakers with a subwoofer and kind of trained my ear to them over and over.
my question was what do I need to study to get more of a fuller sound.
I want to get louder without peaking, distorting, and all the other ugly things.
Sound is hard to describe in words.
Also, I knew the guitar center guy was just trying to make a quick sale , that's why their first purpose was to be inside the booth. lol
but really thanks for all the replies
maybe I should say that I'm not a complete noob.........at all.
And the way I asked my question prolly sounded weird.
I have built myself a recording booth already a long time ago and have treated it with acoustic foam so the vocal comes out great to start with
the only thing I'm guilty of is never buying studio monitors I just used some dell speakers with a subwoofer and kind of trained my ear to them over and over.
my question was what do I need to study to get more of a fuller sound.
I want to get louder without peaking, distorting, and all the other ugly things.
Sound is hard to describe in words.
Also, I knew the guitar center guy was just trying to make a quick sale , that's why their first purpose was to be inside the booth. lol
B
BLP
New member
SWEET guitar center in august will have buy one rokit get 2nd one half off in august
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Don't put it on me; you're the one that continues to recklessly opine on subjects you know nothing serious about. Who's the pompous ass in that equation? You keep making the Internet a worse place to get good info from and I'll keep commenting on it.
And why do YOU feel the need all of a sudden to respond in full? Whose the one who can't leave it alone?
Where did I accuse you of talking about me? I simply said that "I for one" never said it. I was simply continuing the conversation, not accusing you of a personal attack, you wingnut.
If you took half as much time to actually read and comprehend posts longer than seven words long as you did fucking around in the fake rep points thread, you'd see that I was AGREEING with you at least as much as I was disagreeing with you in that one does not necessarily have to spend a lot of money - if any - to get a mixing environment one does not have to fight against. Yet somehow you decide to turn that into another stupid excuse for an even stupider battle. That IS a waste of time.
G.
B
BLP
New member
Where should I go on here to strengthen my knowledge on EQ and frequencies. I'm searching now...
Like people use the words "add 10k to the top end" and "cut some of the bottom off"
I notice when I record, every channel has a EQ option, even the master.
I usually just move the 3 knobs and play by ear but I want to know technically what am i doing. And there's "bands", that I never move.
Like people use the words "add 10k to the top end" and "cut some of the bottom off"
I notice when I record, every channel has a EQ option, even the master.
I usually just move the 3 knobs and play by ear but I want to know technically what am i doing. And there's "bands", that I never move.