My guitar sounds bad in my recordings.

[Greg_L]

Good idea but it's not necessary to do that

It is if he wants to sound better.

He already has nice guitars, a really really nice amp, and he's killing it with a dumb cab sim. I'm just assuming here, hoping really, that someone that would buy an Orange Rockerverb - a fabulous amp - would also have a stellar cab to go with it. Good guitars, that amp, and hopefully his good cab will brutally ass-rape a bunch of plastic sounding generic metal sims.

 

[Paschalis I.]

Hey...I like some Metal (mostly the older stuff)...and maybe this is where Metal tone is these days, with the playing all chopped up hard and turned into little sound bytes instead of actual playing...
...but if my guitar rig made that kind of tone, I would burn the amps and the guitars that made it...or in this case, the computer.

To each his own.

+1

Yeah it's sad truth that modern metal is using lots of quantization. Old rock bands like led zeppelin, deep purple , thin lizzy and pink floyd didn't need to stretch the audio in order for them to sound good.

I mix lots of modern metal and while I've got no problem with djent tones (the little sound bytes you mentioned with really low tuned guitars), but when someone is asking me to cut it during editing and is not able to do this by himself while playing live... Well it's kinda sad.

I see nothing wrong with low tuned guitars and chopped sounds, as long as the player actually does it, but when a guitarist is asking me to make him sound "djenty" using computer editing then.. No thanks! Learn how to sound "djenty" with your fingers

 

[pokinatchapunk]

Get rid of the cab clone, and mic a cab.

Greg, I clearly have stated previously that I am unable to do a mic/cab situation in my apartment. To crank my RV50 I have gotten in some hell for it at my complex. So let's clear this up: I agree that I would mic a cab if that option was viable and available to me, because I know that's the best way to go. My post really is more so about me working with what I have rather than completely use an alternative that isn't one I can do. Thus why I have great gear minus the cab.

 

[miroslav]

Maybe you can try a cabinet emulation box...like the H&K Red Box.

Listening to your Souncloud clip...I don't think your tone is really bad. There's enough good tone there for you to work with, and just dial it in some more.

Maybe if you're listening to it too isolated...IOW...get it to where you like the individual tone, but then record some other tracks, keep going...and then see how it all blends. Maybe at that point you will have a better idea of what you don't like about it, and then you can go back and dial it in some more...rather than just doing the "LPF/HPF + Double Track" thing as some default 1st step...but like I said, it doesn't sound *bad* as-is.

Can you better describe what you don't like about it...and how you do want it to sound?

 

[pokinatchapunk]

Maybe you can try a cabinet emulation box...like the H&K Red Box.

Listening to your Souncloud clip...I don't think your tone is really bad. There's enough good tone there for you to work with, and just dial it in some more.

Maybe if you're listening to it too isolated...IOW...get it to where you like the individual tone, but then record some other tracks, keep going...and then see how it all blends. Maybe at that point you will have a better idea of what you don't like about it, and then you can go back and dial it in some more...rather than just doing the "LPF/HPF + Double Track" thing as some default 1st step...but like I said, it doesn't sound *bad* as-is.

Can you better describe what you don't like about it...and how you do want it to sound?

So there seems to be some confusion about the Cab Clone. It is a load box already that also does 3 different speaker emulations. It's a physical product and not a cab sim in a DAW. So it's extremely similar to an H&K Redbox in that sense. It also has a line out if I wanted to use a digital can sim from LePou or someone else, but I've never found IR's to be that good. The Cab Clone seems to definitely outdo most of them in that aspect. And using the Cab Clone live has been surprisingly good and useful. It's just recording where I hit this brick wall.

 

[miroslav]

I thought the Cab Clone was some kind of software emulation only...where the H&K is hardware...but if the CC is kinda the same thing, then that's about it for you.

I'm still not sure what you don't like about the tone you are getting.

 

[pokinatchapunk]

I thought the Cab Clone was some kind of software emulation only...where the H&K is hardware...but if the CC is kinda the same thing, then that's about it for you.

I'm still not sure what you don't like about the tone you are getting.

I posted earlier that I feel like it's not powerful enough. That it lacks balls and clarity. I know that adding the bass helped. But for some reason things just don't sound right to me when I play it back. It sounds lacking to me.

 

[miroslav]

I think for the style, the clarity is pretty good.
I dunno man...without a cab/mic option, maybe try a touch of some saturation plug post-recording. That should chunk it up a bit, or you might try adding some more crunch at the amp...if I'm understanding correctly what you mean by more "powerful".

You don't really want *distortion*...you just need some crunch, where the low end has a touch of growl.
See...that's why the cab/mic thing gives you more alternatives, since you can position the mic at different spots on the cone....but I know, you can't use a cab, so that's off the table.

 

[pokinatchapunk]

I think for the style, the clarity is pretty good.
I dunno man...without a cab/mic option, maybe try a touch of some saturation plug post-recording. That should chunk it up a bit, or you might try adding some more crunch at the amp...if I'm understanding correctly what you mean by more "powerful".

You don't really want *distortion*...you just need some crunch, where the low end has a touch of growl.
See...that's why the cab/mic thing gives you more alternatives, since you can position the mic at different spots on the cone....but I know, you can't use a cab, so that's off the table.

Yeah trust me, it kills me to know that the mic/cab option would be the "simplest" solution that I can't have. But even when I've used 1x12s in my apartment, someone gets pissed. Lol. If I could find a cost effective way to mask a Orange 1x12 to where I could record it without pissing someone off, I would do that in a heartbeat.

I'll try some stuff out once I'm back home and see where I get with it, I'll post it on the soundcloud too once it's there.

 

[Greg_L]

Sorry, I missed where you said you couldn't use a real cab. That's a bummer because nothing compares to a real speaker moving air.

So in your case, I agree that the cab clone is probably your best option for right now.

I don't think your guitar tone clips sound particularly bad. That whole "lower the gain" thing is sort of a misconception. Yeah, lowering the gain can make the guitars more articulate if you're doing layer upon layer of guitar tracks and need the separation. If you're just doing a left and right track of punk rock powerchord rhythms then use the tone you want to hear. It all works out. I'm not a gain junkie myself, but your clips could use a little more grunt in my opinion. Try cranking the amp more into your load box to get the power section cooking a little harder. Maybe bump the gain a little but watch for fizz. And maybe add just the slightest hint of a quick decay reverb to the guitars to give them some fake "space". Not enough reverb to hear, but enough to make them seem lively. Give it a shot.

 

[miroslav]

...your clips could use a little more grunt in my opinion. Try cranking the amp more into your load box to get the power section cooking a little harder. Maybe bump the gain a little but watch for fizz.

Exactly.

That's what I was getting at...needs just a tad more chunk-n-growl, and that's really the only thing I would change.
It may be too clean for that Punk tone he is after.

 

[RAMI]

Yes, not being a true guitar player, I never said this for fear of trying to sound like an expert on something I know little about compared to some of you.

But I always found the "roll back the distortion when you record" rule was mis-understood. Whenever I hear or read someone say that as if it's some kind of meme, I have to roll my eyes and wonder what they're basing that on, other than the fact that they read it somewhere. I can see why you'd roll back the distortion when you're layering. It doesn't take a genius, or even a guitar player, to figure out why. You're adding fizz to fizz to fizz on top of fizz.

But if you're just doing a standard double track, just record your sound as distorted as you think you need it to be.

 

[minerman]

I am unable to do a mic/cab situation in my apartment.

An option for you would be to build your own ISO cab....I built one about a year ago, & it worked pretty good....Bought a Randall ISO cab, & there was no comparison at all, the home-made ISO cab I built was not only superior in the recorded tones, it also killed the noise in the room better...Only drawback was that it looked terrible, & was a bastard to move because it was so heavy...

As far as making due with what you have, maybe try what's already been suggested, get the power tubes working a little more in the amp, maybe a little more pre-amp gain, & possibly use a boost pedal to tighten it up a little...

 

[miroslav]

Yes, not being a true guitar player, I never said this for fear of trying to sound like an expert on something I know little about compared to some of you.

You know enough...I never heard any bad guitar tones from you.

But I always found the "roll back the distortion when you record" rule was misunderstood.

Yeah...I never roll it back as some absolute rule.
You're right, I think a lot of recording newbs think it's always needed...and they may take too much out at times.

I try one setting, and then when I hear the playback, I may dial it back some and that's only if I'm already getting a lot of distortion tone. Maybe I'll take 20-30% off and then record again and listen to the playback, until I find the sweet spot.
The part I listen for us the high-end distortion hash/fizz. I only roll things back to get some of that out, and sometimes it's also a combination of lowering the drive and also some treble and any presence if the amp has it....but I always try NOT to lose too much of the mid/low-0edn grunt-n-growl. That's usually the good stuff that give the tone the balls it needs.

Way too many distortion tones that people get have way to much of the high-end hash/fizz...especially when they use software sims for amps and crunch.
I spent some time a few years back trying to find a way to have a very clean high-end, while at the same time, low-end crunch and growl. I was messing around with splitting the signal, and using a couple of amps ...but I couldn't find anything that really worked. It would take some sort of frequency crossover rig, and THEN take the low and high outputs and feed them to two amps or something....anyway, it was turning into a lab experiment instead of a guitar rig... ...so I gave up on that and got back to basics dialing it as best as possible at the amp. Some amps just do the crunch tones better than others.

 

[miroslav]

An option for you would be to build your own ISO cab...

Yeah...I was thinking about that too, but I figured he musta' thought about it.

I dunno...I think you could take a cab and stick it in a clothes closet that's fairly full, close the door...and unless you've got a 100 watt amp dimed or something, at a bad time of day or night, you should be able to play through it and not piss off anyone. If there's neighbors below you, just put some blankets on the floor too and the amp on top of them.
There must be a couple of hours when no one is around to bother.

I mean...it's worth a try and it costs nothing.

 

[pokinatchapunk]

Yeah...I was thinking about that too, but I figured he musta' thought about it.

I dunno...I think you could take a cab and stick it in a clothes closet that's fairly full, close the door...and unless you've got a 100 watt amp dimed or something, at a bad time of day or night, you should be able to play through it and not piss off anyone. If there's neighbors below you, just put some blankets on the floor too and the amp on top of them.
There must be a couple of hours when no one is around to bother.

I mean...it's worth a try and it costs nothing.

I think maybe once I get my Orange 1x12 back I'll try the closet idea! I think I may be able to work around that with a hall closet that I could slightly elevate. So that's always worth a shot.

And honestly I've been looking at ISO cabs and the only one I came across that fit what I liked was the Rivera Silent Sister. I would want to put a V30 in there besides a G12T-75 in there though.

I appreciate all the feedback. I'm completely new to the online forum deal, but am not extremely new to recording and whatnot. I have just always seemed to struggle with guitar tones more than anything else. I think if the 1x12 in a closet doesn't work then I'm going to have to save for an ISO cab. I would just rather put money towards more mics/pres/etc rather than something that I can try and resolve some other way.

I think once I get the 1x12 back (my buddy is borrowing it since I've been using the Cab Clone for shows) I'll give it a shot.

Any recommendations for the closet idea and making it work to my advantage?

I still appreciate everyone's input and ideas. It's nice to actually get feedback!

 

[pokinatchapunk]

Also what I forgot to add was that since my Rockerverb is a 50 watt, it still gets crazy loud when trying to really push those tubes. Not as bad as a 100 watt, but you get the idea. Even using a 1x12 is kinda overkill at times.

 

[pokinatchapunk]

I also have an actual band project that I use on Soundcloud, but only for stuff I feel okay with releasing too if you have any feedback on those tracks.

Fragments | Free Listening on SoundCloud

 

[minerman]

When I first built my ISO cab, it was just a big MDF box I had enough room for a 1x12 inside of it....I had a V30 & Greenback 1x12 (I've still got 'em) that I'd swap out for different tones...I finally ended up building an inner box (basically a box-in-a-box, with 2-3" Roxul panels in between the boxes, & I had Roxul panels inside the inner box too), with a baffle & wingnuts, where I could swap out a speaker in a matter of minutes....I think it worked pretty damn good, but I will say using big amps you're always gonna have noise, it's usually the low-end rumble, but the box I made killed enough noise where I could record with a 100w amp on "1" late at night, & not make too much noise...

On the commercial ISO cabs, only one I've ever used is the Randall, & I honestly wouldn't buy it again knowing what I know now...The high end is ok, but the low/low-mids are always woofy/weird sounding, & I could never get it to sound natural, even with post-eq in the daw....I still use it late at night, but only for scratch tracks, never for a final take/track...YMMV...

 

[JimmyS1969]

LINK

Just something I saw a while back that I actually saw in person at a Korn show in Denver. It does happen live quite often. Not something anyone would use as first choice to record tho.

Live and recording are not even close to the same animal. If you have no other choice? Well then iso away.