My guitar is hurting me!

[heatmiser]

This isn't too big of a deal, but it's been bugging me...probably difficult to diagnose online, but maybe someone has an idea here.

For the last few months, any time I have my electric guitar plugged in, I get a pretty substantial electric shock anytime I am touching both the strings on the guitar (ususally to mute it), and my Roland VS2400 recorder (like, to press "record"). What the hell?

I've used this same set up for a while, but it just started this winter.

I'm afraid I know next to nothing about electricity, except that it hurts! I've been working around it by trying not to touch the strings when I hit record, play or stop on the Roland, but it is kind of annoying. Any general ideas about how to troubleshoot something like this?

 

[Chili]

Isn't the Record button plastic?? Are you plugged into your amp?? Can you switch polarity on the amp with the on/off switch?? Some amps have polarity switch to switch between hot and neutral. If not, then maybe you need to check out the outlet your amp is plugged into, especially if you are now using a different outlet.

What happens when you hold the strings and you touch a mic?? Are you barefoot on a concrete floor?? Are you smoking crack?? (Not really related, but just wanted to get it out of the way.... )

 

[chuckduffy]

This isn't too big of a deal, but it's been bugging me...probably difficult to diagnose online, but maybe someone has an idea here.

For the last few months, any time I have my electric guitar plugged in, I get a pretty substantial electric shock anytime I am touching both the strings on the guitar (ususally to mute it), and my Roland VS2400 recorder (like, to press "record"). What the hell?

I've used this same set up for a while, but it just started this winter.

I'm afraid I know next to nothing about electricity, except that it hurts! I've been working around it by trying not to touch the strings when I hit record, play or stop on the Roland, but it is kind of annoying. Any general ideas about how to troubleshoot something like this?

Well - it seems as if one of the devices is properly grounded, and the other is not. The current is passing to ground and you are the conduit. So - first things first - are the amp and the roland plugged into the same outlet?

 

[miroslav]

Ooooooo....you better find the cause.
You don't want to end up across the room one day.

Something is not properly grounded....

Have you moved the entire rig to a different line/outlet for starters....?
Also...remove the Roland from the chain and see if it's gone.
Try to isolate it.

 

[heatmiser]

Isn't the Record button plastic?? Are you plugged into your amp?? Can you switch polarity on the amp with the on/off switch?? Some amps have polarity switch to switch between hot and neutral. If not, then maybe you need to check out the outlet your amp is plugged into, especially if you are now using a different outlet.

What happens when you hold the strings and you touch a mic?? Are you barefoot on a concrete floor?? Are you smoking crack?? (Not really related, but just wanted to get it out of the way.... )

Yes, the buttons are plastic, but it feels like the whole device is charged. Yes, I am plugged into the amp. My amp doesn't have polarity settings. It's a mid-'60s ampeg reverberocket.

I haven't touched a mic while holding the electric when it's plugged in and I'd prefer not too if at all possible. I am wearing alternatively shoes/slippers on a carpeted floor that is likely concrete beneath. I have never smoked crack, but it must be pretty freakin' amazing for people to throw their lives away over it like they do. I am often buzzed when this happens though. Perhaps a chemical imbalance?

 

[heatmiser]

Well - it seems as if one of the devices is properly grounded, and the other is not. The current is passing to ground and you are the conduit. So - first things first - are the amp and the roland plugged into the same outlet?

No, the amp and the roland are plugged into different outlets via separate power strips.

Ooooooo....you better find the cause.
You don't want to end up across the room one day.

Something is not properly grounded....

Have you moved the entire rig to a different line/outlet for starters....?
Also...remove the Roland from the chain and see if it's gone.
Try to isolate it.

I haven't moved things around outlet-wise as it's a very old house with limited outlets. I've used the same 2-3 outlets in this room for all of my "studio" stuff for years without incident.

It only occurs when I touch both the guitar strings and the roland at the same time, so I already know that with the roland out of the picture, nothing happens. I don't get shocked under any other set of circumstances that I've encountered thus far.

You're right - it needs to be isolated, but I can't think of how to approach this.

 

[miroslav]

Are they both just plugged into each of the outlet's receptacles?

Do you use any kind of power strip or those rack power conditioners...???

 

[Chili]

Does the amp have a three-prong plug (Hot, Neutral, Ground)?? Or is it a two-prong plug?? If so, can you flip it over so the prongs go into the opposite slots in the outlet??

Can you plug the amp into the same power strip as the Roland?

Did you change anything in your set up this winter when the problem started? Can you inspect the main power panel in your house? Maybe some old wiring needs attention.

You can buy an outlet tester for $3 at Home Depot. Test the outlets and the power strips.

Have you noticed any increased hum with the amp or roland?

 

[mixsit]

Yes, the buttons are plastic, but it feels like the whole device is charged. ...

Overall, not a good sign. An outlet tester as said, and a cheap volt meter if you can find one.
Are the house outlets grounded -third pin? I'd measure and look for any voltage between any of the cable or jack's sheilds on the amps, recoder, everything, one at a time, to the ground on the outlet.
If you can feel it that well- you could be close to being dangerous.

 

[mjbphotos]

The 'power' is coming from the amp. The recorder is providing the ground path. The problem has to be with the amp. If it's a 60s amp, most likely it has a 2-prong plug with no polarity - you can try plugging it in the other way, but you might get more amp hum. I'd advise getting the amp head to a decent repair shop and have them install a grounded power cable (they can ground the chassis itself).

 

[Bubba po]

What mjbphotos said.

 

[moresound]

If this has just started happening over the last few months then it's just a static electricity build up from walking on your rug and touching your gear.
I have noticed it myself being a very dry winter and all.

 

[Lt. Bob]

No, the amp and the roland are plugged into different outlets via separate power strips.


.

the first step in this situation is always to plug them both into the same outlet. There can be a ground loop if they're not and often simply doing that will stop the shocks.

 

[Victory Pete]

This isn't too big of a deal, but it's been bugging me...probably difficult to diagnose online, but maybe someone has an idea here.

For the last few months, any time I have my electric guitar plugged in, I get a pretty substantial electric shock anytime I am touching both the strings on the guitar (ususally to mute it), and my Roland VS2400 recorder (like, to press "record"). What the hell?

I've used this same set up for a while, but it just started this winter.

I'm afraid I know next to nothing about electricity, except that it hurts! I've been working around it by trying not to touch the strings when I hit record, play or stop on the Roland, but it is kind of annoying. Any general ideas about how to troubleshoot something like this?

Can you post pictures? This can be a complicated issue. The Ampeg may be the cause of this. Is it a 2 prong plug? If so, does it have one blade wider than the other. I was working on an old Fender and got a shock, I had to reverse the plug, it had the same size blades so you could insert it either way. according to the schematic this was how it was made, really dangerous.

These GFCI adapters are a good idea also http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...Id=10053&cm_sp=BazVoice-_-RLP-_-100668733-_-x
It should trip if you become part of the circuit.

This was mentioned and is a good idea http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...ping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-202867890&ci_gpa=pla
But it only works with 3 prong outlets

VP

 

[Lt. Bob]

let me jump in and say that people, and there's gonna be a lot of them, that will chime in and say how deadly this can be are seriously exxagerating the situation.
Google the number of people who have actually died from this and it's like 2 or 3 people out of literally billions of instances of people playing thru amps and surely million and millions of times where they played while getting shocked.
The potential for harm exists but it's very, very small.

Sure ..... you want to fix it but mostly because it's really distracting to get shocked while you're playing/recording.

 

[Victory Pete]

let me jump in and say that people, and there's gonna be a lot of them, that will chime in and say how deadly this can be are seriously exxagerating the situation.
Google the number of people who have actually died from this and it's like 2 or 3 people out of literally billions of instances of people playing thru amps and surely million and millions of times where they played while getting shocked.
The potential for harm exists but it's very, very small.

Sure ..... you want to fix it but mostly because it's really distracting to get shocked while you're playing/recording.

As a Licensed Electrician in 3 states I can say this is absolutely false. There is a "T Cycle" in your heart where even the slightest current can stop your heart. http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol15-1936/articles/bstj15-3-455.pdf
It has made me realize that whenever in the past I have got a shock that it was like "Russian Roulette". You heart has to be in just the right phase and if given the right amount of current in milliamps, it will go into cardiac arrest. Assume nothing!
VP

 

[Lt. Bob]

As a Licensed Electrician in 3 states I can say this is absolutely false. There is a "T Cycle" in your heart where even the slightest current can stop your heart. http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol15-1936/articles/bstj15-3-455.pdf
It has made me realize that whenever in the past I have got a shock that it was like "Russian Roulette". You heart has to be in just the right phase and if given the right amount of current in milliamps, it will go into cardiac arrest. Assume nothing!
VP

the facts are as I stated and they're not false ...... I didn't say it couldn't happen ...... I said it's very , very rare and that is a fact ...... period.
Do a google for people who have died ...... you'll only find a couple in the last 40 years.
That isn't false ..... it's a fact.
And I didn't say the risk did not exist ....... I just said it's very small. And it is.

The statistics are what they are ......... of course ..... your reading comprehension is very poor so I understand you probably thought I said it couldn't happen.
But, of course, you misread it since I didn't say that at all.

Chances are much, much higher, based on the recorded statistics, that I will get in a fatal car wreck today ...... better not drive.
Actually, based on the statistics it's probably more likely I'll get struck by lightening ..... which DOES happen ..... and if it did happen I'd likely die ........ it doesn't give me pause though because it's pretty damned unlikely.
So is dying from a poorly grounded amp ....... It could happen ....... it's very unlikely.

 

[fat_fleet]

I have cheated death so many times

 

[Victory Pete]

the facts are as I stated and they're not false ...... I didn't say it couldn't happen ...... I said it's very , very rare and that is a fact ...... period.
Do a google for people who have died ...... you'll only find a couple in the last 40 years.
That isn't false ..... it's a fact.
And I didn't say the risk did not exist ....... I just said it's very small. And it is.

The statistics are what they are ......... of course ..... your reading comprehension is very poor so I understand you probably thought I said it couldn't happen.
but, of course, you misread it since I didn't say that at all.

You are relying on Google? I think you are "seriously exxagerating the situation", in a very irresponsible way. Do you encourage Golfers to go out and golf in a "Lightning Storm"?

VP

 

[Lt. Bob]

I have cheated death so many times

no shit ...... if I'm on a gig and I get shocked when I touch the mic I simply try not to touch it more than I have to ....... occasionally I'll forget ..... get a little too close and get bit.
Doesn't freak me out nor does it even really get my attention much.
It'll never happen that I die from it.

Now ....... one time I did come close but it wasn't a grounding problem ..... I was using a SVT amp ( the amp that one of the guys that DID die from a shock was using at the time) and the power switch can get knocked in such a way that 110v is going to the chassis which means it's going to your bass.
I stepped forward .... my lips touched the mic and *BAM!!* ..... I saw blue fire and was knocked to the floor. It was like someone hit me in the face with a bat.


So I got up .... and you know how you touch the git strings to the mic stand to see if you get a crackle?
I touched the bass guitar E string to the stand and *pow!* , it was immediately burned through and snapped!



There were burn marks on the chrome mic stand.

HAHAHAHA!

THAT hurt like a bitch.

But it wasn't really what you'd call a grounding problem ..... it was 110 volts to the bass ...... and my lips.