Supercreep
Lizard People
Freddie Mercury smoked cigarettes like a fiend.
Freddie Mercury smoked cigarettes like a fiend.
GuitardedMark
New member
Freddie Mercury was part god bro
He probably could have taken a train car to the face (he actually might have at some point lol) and still rip em!
GuitardedMark
New member
There are always exceptions to the rule. Tony Iommi cut off half all of his fingers at the first knuckle ON HIS FRET HAND and still revolutionized guitar playing.
The drummer of def leopard on has 1 arm. Thats a WTF if i've ever seen one.
legionserial
New member
Freddie Mercury was part god bro
Yeah, he's probably immune to AIDS too!
Wait....
legionserial
New member
I don't think Cornell is exactly the epitome of someone with a good range. There are plenty of people who can sing at that pitch without straining.
GuitardedMark
New member
GuitardedMark
New member
I agree. I'm not expert but I never remember hearing Cornell and being like "Wow! He's got great range!" I think its more the way that hes singing the higher pitches (pretty much screaming...) that is difficult. For the record I've always found his voice very annoying and abrasive
S
SEDstar
Active member
The DefLeppard "god of thunder"? Ehhhhhh...
I am (was, whatever) a drummer. We all know that when we listen to a band, we REALLY home in on the instrument we play, I think we can all agree on that.
I used to listen to DefLeppard a lot, I mean int he early days. High and Dry(reissue), Pyromania, etc... I really liked the drummer. Great sound. When I heard him after he lost an arm? Ehhh... not so much.
I mean, dont get me wrong. What he manages to do with one arm is amazing. He's using his left foot to replace his left hand hiting the snare with an electronic presure switch.
B-U-T you will also note that their style of music IMMEDIATELY changed after teh accident, and stayed like that forever after. It got slower, more commercial, the ballads... which called for a more laid back style of drumming. This was no coincidence in my book. Now, going commercial and "pop" did propel them from start to MEGAstar, so, arguably the drummer losing his arm, and their trying to keep him... may actually have benefitted them.
But, there are physical limitations. You'll never hear a 5 stroke roll, or a buzzroll. EVER.
One MAJOR thing he lost? Intimate high hat sound. SO MANY drummers just lock their hi hat down and use it like a cymbal... it frees up the left foot for the slick double bass, eh? That left foot can also be used to raise and lower the hi-hat WHILE playing on it, making an incredibly expresssive range of feel and sound. Thru the 80's and 90's, a LOT of slick, fast metal drummers didn't have that...
he's using his left foot to play snare... he can do the hi hat manipulation, but... now whats he going to hit the snare with?
I'm not bashing the handicapped, he's incredible for a one armed drummer... but he's not what he once was, dont fall fro the hype that he got "better" after losing an arm. His live solos are W_A_Y different than what he used to be...
NOW, for an analogy between singing and drumming? Living in your means and making the most of it?
I freely admit, I fell out of drumming when slick double bass and the "half the song is a solo" thing became "compulsory" for drummers in the 80s and 90s... I still hung out with musicians though. I'd be there for a practice when a slick fast "god drummer" was trying to learn to cover a 70's song... where you have to do the intimate hi hat trick... for that "small jazzy trap set sound", heh heh heh
They made the "god drummer" let the older guy (me...) show him the difference, LMAO... The damn kids had never seen anyone not lock down the hi hat, and use their left foot expressively on it. nice, tight complicated stutter-beat syncopation, gobs of variations... plus "god boy" somehow couldnt play slow and do the "metronome trick", ha!
It was very fulfilling, for that one practice session I attended, lol.
It was funny... kids staring at me like I was from another planet, they had never heard anyone use the hi hat "properly", lmFao...
How does this apply to singing? "god boy" drummer was a lot like the singer with the huge range, and the ability to hit every note. In that situation, i was more like the singer with a "limited range" that had a lot of different VOICES and techniques, albeit within that limited range.
God-boy can do things I just couldn't do... but, I was able to exploit a wide range of things that he couldn't do.... mainly because he was addicted to playing fast, and constantly doing slick quad rolls....
I must have struck a nerve in that kid... couple years later? BOY was he good at hi hat and slow songs, LMAO... plus, he could still do the fast stuff, lol.
NOW... which singer is more useful? There are LOTS of stuff that a singer with an octave or two less range can bring to the table, stuff you cant put a price tag on...
1) lyrics writing
2) songwriting (music and lyrics)
3) leadership!
4) recording/tracking usefulness
5) dedication
1- lyrics? a lot of great singers can only cover other peoples famous songs. I know I'd vote for the singer that could put lyrics onto the band's big list of "cool songs that dont have lyrics", expanding the playlist to include *gasp* originals...
2) songwriting. this is a unique skill set. VERY useful if a band wants to go beyond the bar scene...
3) leadership. if you have the ablity to mediate problems before they develop into a "problem", that is HUGE. The voice of reason, the voice of compromise.
4) make a booth, and track on the computer and have mixing skills. LOT of bands just "jam" and discount tracking. It would allow the band to work on an album before going to a studio, reduce studio time... and allow a much more polished product above the "pay grade" of a band.
5) dedication. This sounds simople, but... would you rather have a great singer that quit "working on it" and practicing? That just blows in, "practices" 3 songs with the band... then blows out to party and bang chicks, telling the band which 3 songs to "work on" till they return? (*puke*)
or would you rather have a "really good" singer, that worked on it a lot, always practiced a lot, and had many other useful talents besides singing? as well as a wide range of "voices" and techniques?
I KNOW which singer I would vote for having front the band... rendering the "other" singer that simply had an extra octave of range, well... unemployed!
I used to be a fighter a ways back. I'm not a "big guy". At 200 pounds, I used to choke out 250 pound 6'4" big football farmboy types fairly regularly. How? Simple... "technique". I didnt grow up a big guy, pushing people around, used to having everyone afraid of me before they fought me.
I'm a booklearner, and very polite. I surprised MANY a big muscular guy by gettign behind them, riding them tired... then choking them out. Go on, pick me up, and toss me around... I LIKE it... they are wearing themselves out for me, ha ha.
NOW... when the big boned guy wanted to know how I did it? *shrugs* I explained it to them... and if they wanted, I coached them a little. THEN, i couldnt touch them, no replacement for genetics!!
BUT... i was polite, and I made myself VERY useful around the bigger fighters. Coaching the big young kids, so they would be able to perform. i was well appreciated, even though I wasnt the biggest guy. I used my brain to exploit what I HAD, and I was easily worth another 10 "big guys" with no technique or behind-the-scene talents...
I found places to practice for free, I spent a lot of time figuring out ways to train effectively that didnt cost us anything, I improvised equipment for free, I was useful training the big, new guys... so they understood the power of technique IN ADDITION TO their size and strength.
Be THAT singer... yes, a singer with the extra octave(s) will always be better, but IF and ONLY IF... he does as much dedication and extra skills as you have!
I apply this philosphy to everything I do... and i find ways around any limitation I have (many, actually) and expand what jobs/roles I can perform... I make myself as useful as any other 10 guys at whatever I put my mind to do... people figure this out, and I become indispensable. While I maintain politeness, and professional demeanor.
I am (was, whatever) a drummer. We all know that when we listen to a band, we REALLY home in on the instrument we play, I think we can all agree on that.
I used to listen to DefLeppard a lot, I mean int he early days. High and Dry(reissue), Pyromania, etc... I really liked the drummer. Great sound. When I heard him after he lost an arm? Ehhh... not so much.
I mean, dont get me wrong. What he manages to do with one arm is amazing. He's using his left foot to replace his left hand hiting the snare with an electronic presure switch.
B-U-T you will also note that their style of music IMMEDIATELY changed after teh accident, and stayed like that forever after. It got slower, more commercial, the ballads... which called for a more laid back style of drumming. This was no coincidence in my book. Now, going commercial and "pop" did propel them from start to MEGAstar, so, arguably the drummer losing his arm, and their trying to keep him... may actually have benefitted them.
But, there are physical limitations. You'll never hear a 5 stroke roll, or a buzzroll. EVER.
One MAJOR thing he lost? Intimate high hat sound. SO MANY drummers just lock their hi hat down and use it like a cymbal... it frees up the left foot for the slick double bass, eh? That left foot can also be used to raise and lower the hi-hat WHILE playing on it, making an incredibly expresssive range of feel and sound. Thru the 80's and 90's, a LOT of slick, fast metal drummers didn't have that...
he's using his left foot to play snare... he can do the hi hat manipulation, but... now whats he going to hit the snare with?
I'm not bashing the handicapped, he's incredible for a one armed drummer... but he's not what he once was, dont fall fro the hype that he got "better" after losing an arm. His live solos are W_A_Y different than what he used to be...
NOW, for an analogy between singing and drumming? Living in your means and making the most of it?
I freely admit, I fell out of drumming when slick double bass and the "half the song is a solo" thing became "compulsory" for drummers in the 80s and 90s... I still hung out with musicians though. I'd be there for a practice when a slick fast "god drummer" was trying to learn to cover a 70's song... where you have to do the intimate hi hat trick... for that "small jazzy trap set sound", heh heh heh
They made the "god drummer" let the older guy (me...) show him the difference, LMAO... The damn kids had never seen anyone not lock down the hi hat, and use their left foot expressively on it. nice, tight complicated stutter-beat syncopation, gobs of variations... plus "god boy" somehow couldnt play slow and do the "metronome trick", ha!
It was very fulfilling, for that one practice session I attended, lol.
It was funny... kids staring at me like I was from another planet, they had never heard anyone use the hi hat "properly", lmFao...
How does this apply to singing? "god boy" drummer was a lot like the singer with the huge range, and the ability to hit every note. In that situation, i was more like the singer with a "limited range" that had a lot of different VOICES and techniques, albeit within that limited range.
God-boy can do things I just couldn't do... but, I was able to exploit a wide range of things that he couldn't do.... mainly because he was addicted to playing fast, and constantly doing slick quad rolls....
I must have struck a nerve in that kid... couple years later? BOY was he good at hi hat and slow songs, LMAO... plus, he could still do the fast stuff, lol.
NOW... which singer is more useful? There are LOTS of stuff that a singer with an octave or two less range can bring to the table, stuff you cant put a price tag on...
1) lyrics writing
2) songwriting (music and lyrics)
3) leadership!
4) recording/tracking usefulness
5) dedication
1- lyrics? a lot of great singers can only cover other peoples famous songs. I know I'd vote for the singer that could put lyrics onto the band's big list of "cool songs that dont have lyrics", expanding the playlist to include *gasp* originals...
2) songwriting. this is a unique skill set. VERY useful if a band wants to go beyond the bar scene...
3) leadership. if you have the ablity to mediate problems before they develop into a "problem", that is HUGE. The voice of reason, the voice of compromise.
4) make a booth, and track on the computer and have mixing skills. LOT of bands just "jam" and discount tracking. It would allow the band to work on an album before going to a studio, reduce studio time... and allow a much more polished product above the "pay grade" of a band.
5) dedication. This sounds simople, but... would you rather have a great singer that quit "working on it" and practicing? That just blows in, "practices" 3 songs with the band... then blows out to party and bang chicks, telling the band which 3 songs to "work on" till they return? (*puke*)
or would you rather have a "really good" singer, that worked on it a lot, always practiced a lot, and had many other useful talents besides singing? as well as a wide range of "voices" and techniques?
I KNOW which singer I would vote for having front the band... rendering the "other" singer that simply had an extra octave of range, well... unemployed!
I used to be a fighter a ways back. I'm not a "big guy". At 200 pounds, I used to choke out 250 pound 6'4" big football farmboy types fairly regularly. How? Simple... "technique". I didnt grow up a big guy, pushing people around, used to having everyone afraid of me before they fought me.
I'm a booklearner, and very polite. I surprised MANY a big muscular guy by gettign behind them, riding them tired... then choking them out. Go on, pick me up, and toss me around... I LIKE it... they are wearing themselves out for me, ha ha.
NOW... when the big boned guy wanted to know how I did it? *shrugs* I explained it to them... and if they wanted, I coached them a little. THEN, i couldnt touch them, no replacement for genetics!!
BUT... i was polite, and I made myself VERY useful around the bigger fighters. Coaching the big young kids, so they would be able to perform. i was well appreciated, even though I wasnt the biggest guy. I used my brain to exploit what I HAD, and I was easily worth another 10 "big guys" with no technique or behind-the-scene talents...
I found places to practice for free, I spent a lot of time figuring out ways to train effectively that didnt cost us anything, I improvised equipment for free, I was useful training the big, new guys... so they understood the power of technique IN ADDITION TO their size and strength.
Be THAT singer... yes, a singer with the extra octave(s) will always be better, but IF and ONLY IF... he does as much dedication and extra skills as you have!
I apply this philosphy to everything I do... and i find ways around any limitation I have (many, actually) and expand what jobs/roles I can perform... I make myself as useful as any other 10 guys at whatever I put my mind to do... people figure this out, and I become indispensable. While I maintain politeness, and professional demeanor.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
As did John Lennon and thousands of gruff and angelic voiced singers down the years.
For me it's not so much that there are exceptions to the rule as much as there aren't really general rules and humans are highly adaptable and capable of changing direction at the drop of a hat. It's only very recently that the western world has become almost obsessively health conscious. Praying for healing in church gatherings, mainly of some physical ailment, has become almost boringly de rigueur since the mid 80s; Doctors' surgeries all over the gaff have become nearly bursting at the seams....in the UK health kicks have been pushed by the various governments who in turn push the docs into seeing everyone with the result that much of the time the docs simply don't listen......health ! Now you've got ex druggies and heavy smoker pop star/actor types telling us about their fruit drink diets and gym workouts and good parenting.
Monty Yo~ho~ho !
Well, if one casts ones' mind back to say, between the end of 1930 and yesterday, I'm certain we could all name hundreds of singers that we've dug and believe me, many of those magnificent singers with those superb voices weren't putting good healthy stuff into their bodies, whether it was via the throat or otherwise....
There are a thousand ways each with a thousand variations to get from one end of a country to another. If they all have validity, I can't see that one is therefore the way to go above and beyond all the others.
By the way, I'm not advocating abusing oneself, au contraire.
It's just that there are different ways to improve range and healthy living may contribute. But it's not a given. Just ask Alan and Wayne Osmond.
B
bcfromfl
New member
I'm a classically-trained bass-baritone (C2-F4), and have been singing nearly 40 years. My voice is still nowhere near where I'd like it to be, partially because I lacked direction and instruction during those critical earlier years. One thing I can add to this discussion is this: comparisons are not only unproductive, they are useless.
This singer has this range, and that singer smokes and still has a wonderful voice, etc., etc. The most insidious comparisons are what we do to ourselves, especially when we watch the sales material from a couple of websites promoting "extending your range," or "learning your mix." Yes, some of this technique is helpful, but for someone like me, I can't create the vocalizations that a tenor voice can, or even a lyric baritone. NONE of the male teachers who record these "instructional" videos are baritones, and are therefore unemcumbered by the physical limitations that deeper voices are. And despite my years of experience, I simply am not able to be as physically-aware of the positions of my vocal cords as these teachers claim you should be. ("Open position, closed position...") I focus my technical efforts on placement and control, and anything more than that would detract from my ability to connect with lyrics "in the moment."
Someone else in this thread mentioned the different shapes of individual vocal embouchures: the shape of the mouth, head, sinus cavity, throat, etc. This is where it's at! You sound like YOU, and no one else. Would we want to listen to artists who all sound alike? Of course not. Opera singers are a very special breed, because they are born with a certain set of physical characteristics. If you don't have certain commonalities with other opera singers of your particular fach, you will never be...no matter how much training. Opera singers don't all-of-a-sudden decide they want to sing opera and enter a conservatory. They FIRST display aptitude and ability, then are led to specialized instruction. Similarly, we should not use the voices of Geddy Lee, Steve Perry, or Freddie Mercury to measure our own place in the vocal world, nor our lack of progress to reach their level of achievement.
This is not to say that you can't increase your range, but one has to have realistic expectations. For a male voice, a tenor or lyric baritone has a much greater potential for a BELIEVABLE head voice than a dramatic or bass-baritone. That's just how it is. With a tremendous amount of work, I've added perhaps a whole step to my upper range in several years. But those upper notes can not be sung softly -- they require air and power -- so they are not always appropriate.
One other thing: don't feel that coaches are only for beginners. Even pros still use coaches, not only for technique issues, but also expression and interpretation. Find yourself a coach that matches your style and goals.
-Bruce
This singer has this range, and that singer smokes and still has a wonderful voice, etc., etc. The most insidious comparisons are what we do to ourselves, especially when we watch the sales material from a couple of websites promoting "extending your range," or "learning your mix." Yes, some of this technique is helpful, but for someone like me, I can't create the vocalizations that a tenor voice can, or even a lyric baritone. NONE of the male teachers who record these "instructional" videos are baritones, and are therefore unemcumbered by the physical limitations that deeper voices are. And despite my years of experience, I simply am not able to be as physically-aware of the positions of my vocal cords as these teachers claim you should be. ("Open position, closed position...") I focus my technical efforts on placement and control, and anything more than that would detract from my ability to connect with lyrics "in the moment."
Someone else in this thread mentioned the different shapes of individual vocal embouchures: the shape of the mouth, head, sinus cavity, throat, etc. This is where it's at! You sound like YOU, and no one else. Would we want to listen to artists who all sound alike? Of course not. Opera singers are a very special breed, because they are born with a certain set of physical characteristics. If you don't have certain commonalities with other opera singers of your particular fach, you will never be...no matter how much training. Opera singers don't all-of-a-sudden decide they want to sing opera and enter a conservatory. They FIRST display aptitude and ability, then are led to specialized instruction. Similarly, we should not use the voices of Geddy Lee, Steve Perry, or Freddie Mercury to measure our own place in the vocal world, nor our lack of progress to reach their level of achievement.
This is not to say that you can't increase your range, but one has to have realistic expectations. For a male voice, a tenor or lyric baritone has a much greater potential for a BELIEVABLE head voice than a dramatic or bass-baritone. That's just how it is. With a tremendous amount of work, I've added perhaps a whole step to my upper range in several years. But those upper notes can not be sung softly -- they require air and power -- so they are not always appropriate.
One other thing: don't feel that coaches are only for beginners. Even pros still use coaches, not only for technique issues, but also expression and interpretation. Find yourself a coach that matches your style and goals.
-Bruce
DogmaticVox
Meh...
HAHAHA. Almost made me spit out my drink.
T
TheRecProducer
New member
Yeah seriously, what a moron. I'd like to hear Barry White sing some old school Mariah Carey tunes. Barry is a "true artist", it should be no problem for him.
keithersgsx2003
New member
I smoke a pack a day.....and hit High notes just fine......
You actually have to have EXTREME TALENT to be able to sing/ hit those high notes, without it sounding like someone is killing a rabbit.
I dont care what anyone says......you can pay 1000 bucks for vocal lessons, and if your not born with that talent, your gonna be a polished turd.....period.
If your born with a Talent to Sing.....THEN take vocal lessons its going to sound amazing.
D
dintymoore
Guest
That proves it, you have EXTREME TALENT!
Just think how high you could sing if you smoked 2 packs a day!
Awesome! I think I'll go buy a case. What kind do you recommend?
keithersgsx2003
New member
That proves it, you have EXTREME TALENT!
Just think how high you could sing if you smoked 2 packs a day!
Awesome! I think I'll go buy a case. What kind do you recommend?
HAHAHAH!!!!
Wasn't trying to be cocky.......word choice couldv'e been a little better as well.....
good luck though man,,,,,,this stuff isn't at your local hardware store!!!!
B
benherron.rrr
New member
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
That's coz you're 25.
No you don't. Sometimes determination and application will more than suffice.
Nay, Amos ! Not true. Lessons can uncover things for one to work on. How can anyone know if someone is actually born with a talent ? Just because someone takes easilly to something at the age of 2 doesn't actually mean they were born with that ability. So at what point do you draw the line ? Someone could be a shitty singer until they're 55. Then 'suddenly' be hitting the stratosphere. Were they 'born' with that talent ? Did it just take a while to unearth ?
You could just as easilly argue that if you're born with a talent, you won't need lessons.
I'm not really in an argumentative mood !
B
benherron.rrr
New member
That's coz you're 25.
No you don't. Sometimes determination and application will more than suffice.
I'm not really in an argumentative mood !
I think thats spot on, Although I do belive some people have that tone of voice that cant really be translated well into singing, but hey! one mans rubbish is another mans treasure. I dont get the word "talent" How would you describe a talented vocalist? Range? I can think of loads of singers who have a small range who are tallented. Pitch? How robotic and boring would a voice sound if it wernt for the tiny imperfections? I have been lucky enough to pick up my musical abbilities very easily does that make me talented? I have come from a far from musical background, and work hard everyday to teach my self more and more about the instruments I play, Does that make me determined?
Grimtraveller, just saw your from london, Ive been down there from York for the last couple of days to see muse.
keithersgsx2003
New member
That's coz you're 25.
No you don't. Sometimes determination and application will more than suffice.
Nay, Amos ! Not true. Lessons can uncover things for one to work on. How can anyone know if someone is actually born with a talent ? Just because someone takes easilly to something at the age of 2 doesn't actually mean they were born with that ability. So at what point do you draw the line ? Someone could be a shitty singer until they're 55. Then 'suddenly' be hitting the stratosphere. Were they 'born' with that talent ? Did it just take a while to unearth ?
You could just as easilly argue that if you're born with a talent, you won't need lessons.
I'm not really in an argumentative mood !
Good points for sure!!!!
I am very stubborn with this topic, so naturally I disagree with "some" of your points....lol By Extreme talent i mean a vocalist such as Jared Leto....... I do realize that if i dont quit smoking......eventually I'm going to sound like a bingo lady..........or have to use one of those electronic voice box's.......
If there are any kiddos reading this.........smoking is retarded, expensive and nasty..........DONT START!!!!!
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Whereabouts did you see them ?
I don't know......I saw an interview with Tom Jones a few years ago and he said something I've never forgotten. He was saying that the older he got, the deeper his voice became and hitting the high notes was harder. But maintaining the voice was the key. Lots of singers smoke. But they have to work to keep the voice in shape. Same goes for non smokers !
I remember in 1977 we had to write an essay on smoking and it's perils {set by cute Sister Helen of Oldham}. I wrote a hell of an impressive essay and finished it by saying "If you smoke, you will die. But if you don't smoke, you will die anyway !!".
Sister Helen was not impressed.