My first submission...

[Speedy VonTrapp]

Ok, everybody, here we go.

This is my first mix. Not first EVER, but it's my first REAL attempt where I tried to put some of what I've been learning to use here, using my new gear that I just got.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~apotterf1/

The song is called "One You Know." It's the only one on the page.

I'm looking for any kind of critique, as far as mixing goes. I suppose that I welcome critique on the song itself, but as it's not finished, I don't much care about that. I'm more interested in what you think could be improved, either through better tracking, or some better mixing methods.

Here's what I did, for your reference:

No 'studio', just in my bedroom, sitting on the bed.

Guitar - Yamaha Acoustic
How I tracked it:

1 Peavey Diamond V22, and 1 Shure SM58 X/Y set up, approx. 12 inches from the sound hole in the guitar. Peavey panned left, Shure panned right, both at about 75%

1 SP B1 over my left shoulder about 2 feet behind me, maybe a meter to my left, and about 5 feet high. This mic is straight down the middle. Fader level on this mic is way lower than the other 2 mics , and just as far below the main vocals.

No effects of any kind on the guitar tracks.

Lead Vocals:

How I tracked:

SP B1 at around eye level, (I'm 5'10",) standing about a foot and a half away.

Mix:
Straight down the center for placement. Slight reverb straight from the FX on the mixer, and a little different reverb added in Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.

Back up vox:

Same mic placement, only I used a delay from the mixer, and no effects from PA 9. I doubled the track, and panned one left about 9 o'clock, and the other at 3 o'clock.

----------

It's pretty basic, I know. And, I am aware of some of the sonic problems that happen during the song. It could stand to be re-tracked, for sure.

It's my first run, though, so I'm looking for anything that can help me get better.

Also, it's very quiet. You'll have to turn it up to hear it well.

 

[TripleM]

Hey Speedy...

Decent song. I liked the melody - it was pretty in spots. Some good harmony parts sprinkled in there.

A good piece of advice I came across for micing acoustic guits is to place the mic at about the 12th fret and point it about 45 degrees toward the sound hole. Put the mic maybe 4-6 inches from the fretboard.

I track vocals much closer. I'm guessing 5-6 inches away, and I put the mic at mouth level (instead of eye level).

Not sure that guit was entirely in tune. Sounded a bit dull for a Yamaha.

There were a couple of weird things going on with the guit tracks - one side would drop off for a while then jump back in. I'd keep both tracks going throughout the whole song.

The harmony spots you did were good. I thought there were other opporunities for them as well.

Was there a little pitchiness in the vox early in the song? I had a little trouble hearing them early on.

Anyway, I liked the song and I thought this was a good first effort.

 

[chrisharris]

You've got a really good voice. You get a little "pitchy" later in the tune, but my first recording was so "off" from tracking with headphones for the first time...man, it sucked, lol. "I'm on my WAY to..." @ 2:55 - that one's particularly noticeable to me. Also, it could come up during the first couple of lines of the tune...getting overshadowed by the guitar for the first 2 lines.

Verb seems appropriate on the vocal.

Now, the guitar is an issue. It sounds like you're only playing 2 strings on it, and those 2 strings are a tad out of tune, lol. I'd like to hear some ringing open chord work on this...

Parts of this kind of remind me of some of 7 Mary 3's mellower stuff. Ever heard "Lucky" by 7Mary3? You need to listen to that. DON'T copy the recording, lol...they used some big plate or something on the acoustic, but the acoustic SOUND on that tune is worth checking out to see if it's kind of what you were thinking?

Thanks for posting,
-Another Nobody

 

[Speedy VonTrapp]

You know, I noticed the same thing with the guitar, as far as them jumping in and out a bit. The automation for the faders in Cakewalk is what that was, I'm pretty sure. I made myself sick trying to turn it off, to no avail. It recorded the movements that I did when I was trying to get levels right, and I couldn't seem to undo it. Grrr.

The guitar was out of tune, I'm pretty sure. I like to keep in in Eb because it's a bit easier to sing to that way, but I misplaced my tuner, and thought that I'd go ahead anyway for now. I wish I hadn't. hehe

I WAS pitchy in spots. I was having some trouble, because parts of the song, I wrote as I went. I had the guitar done, but the bridge, (where you pointed out at 2:55 "I'm on my WAY...,") was just made up as I went, and that was the best take that I got. None of the takes even have the same verbage, much less exactly the same melody line. It's a problem that I've been having with the song. I just could get anything to stick when I was trying to write it. So, I figured that I'd just try to wing it.

It's not something that I want to do very often at all. Like never again, if I can help it. But, that could probably account for some of the pitchyness in that area of the song.

Thanks for the crits, guys. I'm going to try different mic positions like you suggested. Do you think it would be worth trying an effect on the guitar to help it sit better in the mix? I don't really think that every track has to have an effect on it, but I wonder what you think about THAT track? What about the levels? Do you think the vocal levels compared to the back ups, or the guitar were in the proper place?

I'm not a very good guitar player, at all, really, and most of what was wrong with the guitar parts is probably directly related to that. I am working to get better, but I'm so side-tracked now with recording, that the guitar is likely to get a little dusty.

I do want to go over it again, and re-track it all, and hone some tracking and mixing skills. I'll probably do this song a few more times, and maybe even post it here each time to get feedback on it. I think that if I do that, I'll have a single point of reference, as all the aspects of the song will be the same, and I can learn what mic placement and mixing techniques do specifically. THEN, I'll move on to the next tune.

 

[chrisharris]

a little light reverb wouldn't hurt that guitar, but the thing that would help it the most, in my opinion, is just playing 5 of the six strings on it. Despite the fact that everybody in the world seems to play one, the guitar is not an easy instrument to physically play when you're learning...on a pno or a drum, if you make contact, you're going to get sound...not necessarily so on a guitar, eh?

It sounds like you're playing barre chords? If so, I'd suggest using a capo so that you can play some open chords without changing keys.

Rock On

 

[a_super_critic]

regardless of the mic placement that guitar is out of tunes or needs new strings... and on this type of tune i would consider strumming less vigorously. find a 12-string. might work better.

try recording to a click track or get a metronome. the timing is all over the place.

vocal quality has potential. easy on the high notes... practice your solfege. once you get your scales down those notes won't give you such problems.

see folks... i can play nice

 

[a_super_critic]

regardless of the mic placement that guitar is out of tune or needs new strings... and on this type of tune i would consider strumming less vigorously. find a 12-string. might work better.

try recording to a click track or get a metronome. the timing is all over the place.

vocal quality has potential. easy on the high notes... practice your solfege. once you get your scales down those notes won't give you such problems.

see folks... i can play nice

 

[Speedy VonTrapp]

You're probably right, I think I do need new strings. I can't remember when I changed them last, but that's probably the first sign that I need new ones, eh? heh.

I was power-chording, perhaps I will try to change over to open chords. What you're thinking, Chris, is right on. It's just easier for me to do it that way. I can play them open, just not as well. (As if this was was good. lol)

 

[Shailat]

see folks... i can play nice

Great....now lets hear your stuff.

 

[Speedy VonTrapp]

see folks... i can play nice

And on my thread, too!

I must admit, for the first time in a long time, I had to look up a word. It seems that regardless of whatever people might think of a super critic, he's no dummy. And, he was right, too. I DO need to practice my solfege. I used to do it all the time, (withouth knowing what it was called,) and I benefited from it greately. Point well taken, a super critic. That was a super critique.

 

[a_super_critic]

Great....now lets hear your stuff.

i already said that if i posted some of my stuff that you would immediately know who i am. so that's not gonna happen.

 

[okobd]

Why

see folks... i can play nice

Doesn't playing nice fly in the face of the whole reason you exist as this screen name? Or is that just me. Anon proxy ain't for playin nice. You block caller ID when you make crank phone calls right?

-Joe

 

[B.SABBATH]

your voice has a good sound to it.. the pitch wavered a bit. I pretty much agree with everything Trip said.. the guitar dropping off on one side was probably unintentional.. a bit out of tune.. or intonation.. good melody.. nice first crack.

 

[WATYF]

OK... I think the tune is OK. Nice melodies. Not bad.

I think your voice is good, and your vox tracks will most likely get better as you spend more time recording and getting used to putting out a strong vocal performance in your bedroom (I know it can be hard... that's my "studio" too. ).


Now... as for for the recording... I think it pretty much sounds like you hit "record" and just put a mic in front of you and starting playing. The only indication, during the whole song, that there was any kind of "mix" going on was when the gits panned center (kind of at an odd place in the verse) at 1:37. (and, of course, the light harmonies in the background). The vocals are very quiet in the mix... they blend with the harmonies pretty well, though, but they need to be brought up. Both elements (the git and the vocal) sound like they were recorded in a bedroom. I'm not sure why you're using such distant mic positions, but you will probably get much better results by using some more close-mic'ed setups (both vocally and with your git).

Guitar - Yamaha Acoustic
How I tracked it:

1 SP B1 over my left shoulder about 2 feet behind me, maybe a meter to my left, and about 5 feet high. This mic is straight down the middle. Fader level on this mic is way lower than the other 2 mics , and just as far below the main vocals.

uh.... don't do this. The B1 is your best mic and you should be using it to capture a more prominent sound (not using it to get a distant roomy sound that doesn’t have much presence in the mix).

Try this... take your peavey and place it at the 12th fret about 5 inches away from the git tilted slightly towards the sound hole. Take the SM58 and place it in front of the bridge about 5 inches away from the git pointed slightly to the left (towards the sound hole). This will give you a similar X/Y setup but at a much closer range. Then, take your B1 (most important mic ) and (I'm assuming you're sitting while playing git) put it on a stand aboot 4.5 feet high out directly in front of you. The mic should be facing down, as if the mic is looking at the sound hole... so you're not capturing the sound straight from the sound hole (assuming you won’t be titling the git upwards when you play it), instead you're capturing what it sounds like when standing in front of the git looking right down at it. Take your X/Y mics and hard pan them (85%-ish) left and right, and place the B1 in the center. Play around with the levels until you get desirable results. (Also, try other panning arrangements (B1 on the left, Sm58 on the right, etc. ) The most important thing, though, is that you get a nice tight sound. Right now you have a very "I'm recording this in my bedroom" sound that you wanna get rid of. So getting the X/Y mics tighter up on the git and getting the "room" mic (B1) closer up on the git will get rid of some of that unwanted "roominess".

Lead Vocals:

How I tracked:

SP B1 at around eye level, (I'm 5'10",) standing about a foot and a half away.

Yeah... uh... don't do this either. You have a good voice and the world needs it to be right up in their face. You should have a pop-filter (right up next to the mic), and then just get right up on that mic. Make sure you're controlling your sibilance and your plosives and just get right on that thing. Now.. by "right on that thing" I don't mean swollow it... but I do mean that your mouth should be within mere inches of the diaphram (based on how loud you’re singing). Play around with the proximity effect you get from getting a little closer and a little farther (mouth right next to the pop-filter/mouth four/five inches away from the pop-filter, etc.) Then you can track like that and compress the vocal to get it even more "in your face"... add a little (emphasis on "little") reverb to give it some "space" and you should be able to get a decent vocal sound.

Btw... make sure your signal is hot but not clipping on both the vocal and git levels when tracking like that. It may take a while to get good levels when you're that close, and it does take a bit more control to keep from clipping... but it's worth it.

Basically, the point it... your room stinks... and it shows in your results... and until you get a nicely treated room, with Auralex on the walls, that’s the perfect size for recording vox and gits (yeah.. I'm still waiting on that one ) then you're gonna have to try to capture some better results by not letting your lousy room bleed into the tracks so much.

Try that stuff out... it may help...



or hell... it may not... Who knows... It helped me a heck of a lot though, so I can only speak from my personal experience.


WATYF

 

[Speedy VonTrapp]

Everyone, thanks for the great suggestions! I really can't wait to try them all out and learn what each technique does, and what sounds best to me.

I'm still having a bit of a hard time with being so close to the microphone, though. Not because I'm shy, or anything like that, but that B1 is the first LD condensor, (or any condensor for that matter,) that I've ever used, and everything just sounded really really loud when I started out closer to it.

Definitely one of my biggest problems is that I don't have help from anybody at all. (Except that I'm teaching my 4 year old to push a couple of buttons for me. He actually sat still through a couple of entire guitar takes without making any noise at all. He's a trooper! He didn't make it the whole session, but he did good for his first time. hehe) And I don't have a decent table set up or anything for my gear, so it's all on my bed. And, in order to have mics in FRONT of me, my gear is BEHIND me. So....I can't see anything that I'm doing. I have to test, turn around and adjust, test, turn around and adjust....etc, etc...

I have one more question about this recording, and more specifically, how I can get better at tracking and mixing:

My plan is to re-record this song, probably 2-4 more times, and get a few more mixes, using different mic placements, etc, before I move on to another song. Does that sound like a good move? It seems to make sense to me, that in a controlled experiment type environment, if I keep the song the same, I'll be able to learn what adjustments did what a little better, and I seem to think that I'll progess better that way than if I said, "Ok, that needed work, but I'll use some new techniques on a new song."

On the other hand, perhaps it would be good to give my ears a little break from that particular song, and try another one, possibly one with electric guitars, a bit heavier, or whatever, something with different dynamics altogether.

I seem to be leaning toward the first option of getting THIS song down the way that I want first, and learn technique that way. Does anybody have any good insight as to what they think might be the better path to follow, based on what they have seen, or done themselves?

Thanks again for the great suggestions! I know I'm going to owe you all big time when things start coming together for me, because of all the help that you've provided.

-Speedy

 

[a_super_critic]

Re: Why

...Anon proxy ain't for playin nice. You block caller ID when you make crank phone calls right?

-Joe

your logic is skewed my friend. ease up on the ol' valid conditional chain arguments and you might live a happier life.

 

[bdbdbucksKID]

Re: Re: Why

your logic is skewed my friend. ease up on the ol' valid conditional chain arguments and you might live a happier life.

Being that you are clearly miserable, Super Critic, you probably shouldn't give such advice.
Yes, in the real world no one has to be nice to you...or like your music. That has nothing to do with logic either...it is logical to assess however, that from the outside looking in you are by nature fearful of what others may think of you...hence the reason for not revealing your true identity.
Get a spine and either amble your way outta here or post your music. You may be a critic, but that doesn't make you an expert in anything else. You may be a musician, but there are many, many other musicians. It seems that your judgment of their work (I can assume) is based, on the contrast to the control standard of your own music. If that is untrue, then why put on such an ego and insult others work with such unrelenting will? How is that in anyway logical? That may be fine and acceptable to others in this forum, but until I hear this control standard....you will just be another coward, breathing someone else's air.

 

[okobd]

Re: Re: Why

your logic is skewed my friend. ease up on the ol' valid conditional chain arguments and you might live a happier life.

Why? this is kinda fun. Besides, it seems to me that you just admitted validity to what I said. That's even more fun.

 

[WATYF]

My plan is to re-record this song, probably 2-4 more times, and get a few more mixes, using different mic placements, etc, before I move on to another song. Does that sound like a good move?

Yes. Do that. Don't move on to step 2 until you've at least grasped step 1. Or else you'll just keep moving on to new steps without ever really learning any of them.


WATYF

 

[okobd]

Speedy

Speedy,
I'm sorry for getting involved w/ the troll on your thread instead of commenting on your song.
This song has a real seattle sound, I don't know how else to put it.
I like how the b/g vocs add to the sound.
good job
-oko