A
Aren
New member
A1A2 -
Nice job!
What did you use to record these?
Oren
Nice job!
What did you use to record these?
Oren
A1A2
New member
Aren:
glad you liked it. It was a simple/typical setup. 57 on snare, D112 in kick, C1 overhead (which kinda picked up too many highs from the cymbals) with about 20 seconds of adjusting volume on my mackie, then sent to audiophile.
I wish I had more time to play with the micin' position and mixing on mackie tho because I think the kick sounds pretty weak.. god, I hate apartments!
AL
glad you liked it. It was a simple/typical setup. 57 on snare, D112 in kick, C1 overhead (which kinda picked up too many highs from the cymbals) with about 20 seconds of adjusting volume on my mackie, then sent to audiophile.
I wish I had more time to play with the micin' position and mixing on mackie tho because I think the kick sounds pretty weak.. god, I hate apartments!
AL
A1A2
New member
shit, Chris:
I am so sorry about that big thumb down on my previous post. I meant to insert it right after I mentioned about my neighbor, but it went to the top instead. I hope you don't take that as an insult. my bad
AL
I am so sorry about that big thumb down on my previous post. I meant to insert it right after I mentioned about my neighbor, but it went to the top instead. I hope you don't take that as an insult. my bad
AL
A
Aren
New member
A1A2 -
I actually think the kick is just right. Nice and punchy.
I also really lke the highs that the C1 picked, they're "ringy", but not harsh. I'm really gald that you showed me that you can make a decent recording onto to two tracks, becasue that's all I have for the drums recording I'm going to do this weekend. I guess my weakest link is that I don't have a kick mic, and will be using a 58' for that (2 MXL-1006 as overheads, SM-57 on snare). We'll have to make do...
Just get rid of your neighbour and record a whole song!
Oren
I actually think the kick is just right. Nice and punchy.
I also really lke the highs that the C1 picked, they're "ringy", but not harsh. I'm really gald that you showed me that you can make a decent recording onto to two tracks, becasue that's all I have for the drums recording I'm going to do this weekend. I guess my weakest link is that I don't have a kick mic, and will be using a 58' for that (2 MXL-1006 as overheads, SM-57 on snare). We'll have to make do...
Just get rid of your neighbour and record a whole song!
Oren
A1A2
New member
one thing I can tell you is, don't put overhead mics too far if you don't like your room sound. I hate my "apartment sound" so I put the C1 right above the drummer's shoulder, just high enough that he won't stick his drum-stick into my baby.
we also put a desk right infront of the kick drum with cardboards all around the legs of the desk. and the desk was only about 6-10" away from the kick. So, we basically made a hole right infront of the kick. We did that cuz we believed that would eliminate the reviberation of the kick sound from the wall which was only 15-20"away from the kick.
I am not sure if our theory was correct tho, we didn't have enough time to experiment dif settings.
hope this would help you a bit. good luck on your drum recording. Post some samples once you have them done.
AL
we also put a desk right infront of the kick drum with cardboards all around the legs of the desk. and the desk was only about 6-10" away from the kick. So, we basically made a hole right infront of the kick. We did that cuz we believed that would eliminate the reviberation of the kick sound from the wall which was only 15-20"away from the kick.
I am not sure if our theory was correct tho, we didn't have enough time to experiment dif settings.
hope this would help you a bit. good luck on your drum recording. Post some samples once you have them done.
AL
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
Thought he was a god and died of a lip blister,wow!And I thought the guys in my band are weird...
Tom
Tom
Chris Fallen
New member
Anyone else get a chance to listen to my second mp3?
Christopher
Christopher
G
gnarled
New member
Well, I listened to both. The second was is an improvement - the cymbals are less harsh. The mix is very loud as someone else pointed out (first one louder than the second too), which makes me think one of two things. Either you limited it a bunch during mixing, but you didn't mention this, or maybe your overheads are clipping your mic pres. That might explain the harshness in the cymbals. Zoom in on the waveforms at look at the peaks. If they look chopped off on top, that might be the culprit. I think the kick drum still sounds like cardboard, I'd give it a little boost around 80Hz or so.
Ben
Ben
Chris Fallen
New member
Thanks for your reply.
First off, aren't we trying to get our mixes as loud as possible? I thought that was something that everyone asks about (how can I get my mixes as loud as commercial cds). I guess there's a good loud and a bad loud? What's the bad loud, so I know what's wrong with mine?
Second, I didn't do any limiting or anything. No effects at all. Don't even know HOW to use them yet. The overheads probably clipped a few times during recording. Is there any way to remedy this without recording it all over again (transporting a full car load of equipment for an hour is just a pain)?
You said the cymbals are less harsh, but are they still too harsh? I guess I'll have to work a little more on the kick drum. What do you mean when you say that it sound cardboard?
Christopher
First off, aren't we trying to get our mixes as loud as possible? I thought that was something that everyone asks about (how can I get my mixes as loud as commercial cds). I guess there's a good loud and a bad loud? What's the bad loud, so I know what's wrong with mine?
Second, I didn't do any limiting or anything. No effects at all. Don't even know HOW to use them yet. The overheads probably clipped a few times during recording. Is there any way to remedy this without recording it all over again (transporting a full car load of equipment for an hour is just a pain)?
You said the cymbals are less harsh, but are they still too harsh? I guess I'll have to work a little more on the kick drum. What do you mean when you say that it sound cardboard?
Christopher
G
gnarled
New member
Well, I wasn't saying that your mix was bad because its loud. I was just saying that it being so loud may be a clue as to the harshness of the recording. The reason being that drum recordings generally have transients that eat up a lot of your dynamic range and without compression, require the whole mix to be quiet in comparison. Your mix, being as loud as it is without any compression led me to believe that you could have been limiting on the way in via clipping the mic pre. And if thats what happened, there's really no way to fix it, but I think you can get a usable drum sound out of what you have. I recently did a demo where the overheads clipped the pres in my mixer (not a whole lot, but probably 4-5dB of limiting) but I rather like the sound -
jacknife - just kick, snare, 2 oh's and a room mic btw.
As far as the more philosophical debate on loudness goes, I won't get into it. But, in general as you compress a mix to make it louder, you lose dynamic range and dynamics are a fundamental part of music. Louder is not necessarily better, it has just become the norm.
jacknife - just kick, snare, 2 oh's and a room mic btw.
As far as the more philosophical debate on loudness goes, I won't get into it. But, in general as you compress a mix to make it louder, you lose dynamic range and dynamics are a fundamental part of music. Louder is not necessarily better, it has just become the norm.
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
You can't really "unclip" a signal that has had its head chopped off.As gnarled suggests,use your waveform editor to zoom in and take a close-up look at the waveform to see if this has really happened.
The fewer mics used during drum tracking,you may need to compress the signal a bit to be sure and hear all the parts of the kit.
Tom
The fewer mics used during drum tracking,you may need to compress the signal a bit to be sure and hear all the parts of the kit.
Tom
Chris Fallen
New member
Yeah, I'm working on getting a cheap software compressor right now so I can experiment around with the drums tracks and learn how to use one. Anyone know any that are decent for 20-40 bucks? I'm going to pick up a RNC in the near future, but I want one right now to screw around with.
Christopher
Christopher
Tom Hicks
Well-known member
The fasoft compressor is in that range and sounds good.I have it as well as Flavio's para EQ plug.Direct X type.It's no waves L2 but it is useable.
Tom
Tom
Chris Fallen
New member
Well then I'll pick that up tonight and compress some of the tracks tonight and post a new sample.
Christopher
Christopher
wes480
New member
yeah chris...
I think the "loudness" issue is just being said like, how the drums relate to each other...
when I listen to it...I feel like the initial swell of the cymbals (transients) don't have any room to breathe or develop...
the whole thing sounds kinda...muddy...(but not in a bass way) just like it is all streamed together. I would play with the panning and placement of the overheads a bit more next time..
I'd like to hear more hi hat in one channel..for instance...and...they are fairly even...I realize that that's how the overheads picked it up...bringing them in closer will give you more "drum image" as well as cutting down on that room noise.
If you want that room noise...I'd suggest trying to use a separate mic in a well thought out place to get it...and mix it in as necessary.
I think the sounds are pretty useable...so its a good start. Just get rid of a little room noise...and play with the stereo image. Personally..I like to hear the set through the speakers like I was standing in front of it...that subtle placement of where the drums are. I think you tried to do this...but, it's not that convincing yet.
Other thing is probably the beat...the beat in and of itself sounds kinda "harsh"...so that may be unconciously biasing the reviews. Play around with some slower beats too...so you can hear how your cymbals develop when given a little space.
kick has already been mentioned...so, I won't say much...other than maybe play with that mic placement. I set up a lot of tunnes and crazy contraptions before I realized that tuning the drum a little differently...taking off the front head..and sticking the mic a good 2 feet in front of it is what really gave me the "thump" I was looking for.
Last thing..on the compression - it can definately help out. But, I like to get my dry tracks sounding very close to how I want them to sound on the record...minus a little reverb or whatever. I find that most level issues can be remedied by tedius mic placement and such.
good start...drums are tough, keep at it.
I think the "loudness" issue is just being said like, how the drums relate to each other...
when I listen to it...I feel like the initial swell of the cymbals (transients) don't have any room to breathe or develop...
the whole thing sounds kinda...muddy...(but not in a bass way) just like it is all streamed together. I would play with the panning and placement of the overheads a bit more next time..
I'd like to hear more hi hat in one channel..for instance...and...they are fairly even...I realize that that's how the overheads picked it up...bringing them in closer will give you more "drum image" as well as cutting down on that room noise.
If you want that room noise...I'd suggest trying to use a separate mic in a well thought out place to get it...and mix it in as necessary.
I think the sounds are pretty useable...so its a good start. Just get rid of a little room noise...and play with the stereo image. Personally..I like to hear the set through the speakers like I was standing in front of it...that subtle placement of where the drums are. I think you tried to do this...but, it's not that convincing yet.
Other thing is probably the beat...the beat in and of itself sounds kinda "harsh"...so that may be unconciously biasing the reviews. Play around with some slower beats too...so you can hear how your cymbals develop when given a little space.
kick has already been mentioned...so, I won't say much...other than maybe play with that mic placement. I set up a lot of tunnes and crazy contraptions before I realized that tuning the drum a little differently...taking off the front head..and sticking the mic a good 2 feet in front of it is what really gave me the "thump" I was looking for.
Last thing..on the compression - it can definately help out. But, I like to get my dry tracks sounding very close to how I want them to sound on the record...minus a little reverb or whatever. I find that most level issues can be remedied by tedius mic placement and such.
good start...drums are tough, keep at it.