my bass tracks 100% suck..

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wes480

wes480

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normally most newbie recorders have a tough time getting a drum sound that they like...

i can easily get a good drum sound...

but i can *not* get a good bass sound. I have an aardvark q10..

i've tried miking the peavy cabinet...going direct out of the peavys preamp out, going direct into the aardvark with the hi-z input...

all of it sucks.

the hiz input is too clean and wimpy..

the preamp out is pretty nasty...

all of the miking turns out sounding really shitty and distorted...plus the room is bad for bass so there is tons of ratteling and such recorded.

I am looking for just a good rock and roll bass sound like REM or U2 or something.

I have heard before that Art Tube MP was good....but, then I heard from others that it was a really cheap unit and broke easily and stuff.

I'd like to stay under 200 dollars...what kind of options do I have?

The bass is a Fender American P-Bass so that isn't the problem...playing wise...our bassist is alright....certainly better than the sound I am translating for him. I've asked this question before...but, still no closer to answering it...and, I am looking online and can't find any good solutions. please help....or, any tips in general about EQ'ing bass tracks and stuff....this one is just killing me.
 
I would suggest Sansamp Bass driver DI From Tech 21. It's about $180 and gives a great bass sound for direct recording and in front of an amp. Doesn't have much variety to it....but it gives you a nice full solid bass sound..

I use it for almost all my bass tracks...
 
wow, that unit looks really neat...i am going to go check one out tomorrow...several dealers in GA..thanks a bunch for that suggestion man...thing looks like it could be really neat.

I like the price too...tells me it isn't "cheap"...if it were 80 bucks I'd be inclined to think it was cheesey
 
I wasn't getting a good bass tone either(direct recording w/ guitar Pod)..So i picked it up and it was excatly what i needed. You won't regret buying it..
 
The problem can vary from something simple to something more complicated.
You might need a active DI to punch it up
You might need some compression help
You might need new strings
You might need to EQ
You might need to adjust the pickups - to close and it sounds muddy...
You might need string height adjustment
Is he thumb playing? using a pick? using fingers? playing near bridge? near neck?
If you over process a bass it might result in a hollow sound or if you over compress you might lose the bottom end.

I'd start with going through a DI of any kind straight to the aardvark and working from there.

First try to Eq to your taste but keep the levels under control and dont aim for the hottest signal just yet. Hot yes ! not hottest !.

This is a basic EQ parameter for bass. Start from here and tweak
For more bottom end use the 50-150Hz
For more attack look around 700Hz- 2k
For more of a clear sound look around 2-3k
I would also roll off under 40Hz and I wouldnt waste time with over 4k as all it will do is add noise.
Here is a tip for the Per.Bass - cut between 250-500Hz and it will sound more punchy.


Compression
__________

Starting with ratio - first understand that if you sqaush it
the chances are you will get a thinner sound and not fatter.
From 3:1 till 7:1 is a typical ratio.

Now set the attack for 5ms and tweak from here. What you have to listen to is if the sound is becomming to dull or not. To dull? no life? then its set to fast.
Set the release time starting at 100ms-250ms. Listen and see if you can hear the compresser working to much. To much ? your release time is to fast.
Here is a trick - dampen a string using your palm and look at the gain reduction meter. See the level return to 0 in a time that you can see it with your eyes clearly BUT not to slow so that it takes to long!. That will help you set the release time better.

Set the threshold at first to the highest setting you have on the compressor. As your friend plays, lowr it untill you see an average of 2-3 dB reduction and 4-6 on peaks. If it still isnt even sounding then lower the threshold ....EASY...Easy....to much and it will get thin.
Now turn to the gain on the compressor and bring the level back up so the output of the max peak is identical to the uncompressed sound. Dont be afraid to use a bit more gain if you feel you need it. You dont HAVE to level it out exactly.

After you have compressed -recheck the sound and see if it needs some Eq AFTER compressing like adding more lower end.
But first check and see if your threshold isnt to low and compromising your lower end sound.

Its all about tweaking.

Dont forget to boil the bass strings if they are old and dull sounding.

start here and lets see what happends.
 
thank you so much shaliat - after i reread this several times and print it out I am seeing good things in my future :)
 
zekthedeadcow said:
also what type of bass are you useing? if you have a $100 guitar then don't expect much.
Click to expand...
He said it was a MIA P-bass. A bass with great potential.
 
All my bass is direct, right out of the bass into the board, card or breakoutbox....(Whatever your using..).. No D.I, No Pre's, No basspod's........Just a cord from the bass directly into the recording medium.

NO eq, and just a bit of compression... there is my bass sound in a nutshell.

www.voxvendor.com You can hear it in the samples... It's pretty decent for being so simplistic.

Joe
 
I'm with Vox there... I feel that with the right bass (and the right pair of hands), all you'd ever need is compression. Unless you're one of those guys with perfect technique, then you won't even need that. I got a great studio tone from my Peavey Cirrus when run straight into the pres of a Mackie console (no DI box, but it's active anyway), flat onboard EQ. I feared it would need a fair share of tweaking to sound good recorded (since it's nothing like a Fender) but not so.
 
Yeah..

I have a $1200 1978 Fender Jazz Bass (USA), and a $189 Samick Bass...

I get pretty much the same result with both, except the fender is nicer to play...


This simple method works with cheapy and awesome basses...

Joe
 
Getting a good bass sound is one of the toughest things to achieve, because so much of it resides in subtle things.

If you listen to the bass in solo, and it sounds great, but you're just having trouble hearing it distinctively in the mix, then chances are you need to EQ the bass and the rest of the mix so as to better hear it.

What you need to do in this case is to do some serious bass-cutting on the guitars. Start out at 200 hz and gently roll off, if you have to. Or you could do a sharper cuttoff at around 100 hz if necessary.

* From there, you will also want to start cutting everything between 80 hz and 200 hz on the drums. Basically, all that boomy stuff between the kick and snare that doesn't really do anything.

* Cut everything below 30 hz on the drums AND the bass. This will cut out all that subsonic stuff that only adds to the mud factor.

If there are any accoustic guitars in your mix, then there's no way around it. You HAVE to cut, cut, and cut even more bass out. Just chop away untill all you have left are the jingly-jangleys. :)

Some more tips:

* CHANGE YOUR STRINGS. And the truth shall set you free.

* Try playing differently. I know it sounds funny, but trust me on this one. I was getting pissed when I realized my buddy got better bass tracks than me when we recorded with the EXACT same setup. "What are you doing different?" I asked. So he watched me play, and pointed out that I was fingering directly above (on top of/over) the pickup, while he finger-picks just below the pickup in a different position.

So I tried it his way, and I'll be damned if I didn't all of a sudden get much clearer, punchier bass tracks. It felt funny to me, since I was used to playing in a different position, but it did make all the difference.

* It could be that your bass player just sucks. Some of them do, you know? And it's not the end of the world. Just encourage him to play rythm guitar or tamborine or something.
 
One suggestion- Try splitting the bass signal and record both the preamp and the DI signal. Mixing them together may give you enough tone control to get what you want.
 
chess - yeah...do you know of any place/book that could give tips on how to play bass?

see the bass player is my brother....and rhythm wise and left hand wise...he is great....

I'm not sure about right hand...I mean, I know he is better than the crappy sound we were getting...but....I don't know what to tell him...in terms of playing better...

becuase I am not a bass player. the best place to pluck the strings is more towards the neck you are saying?

some tips on that would be cool.

tex - right on....

somehow the aardvark when you go direct in...just sounds too....treble green day punk rock or something...but, thats with the hi-z turned on.

maybe it would sound better if i just ran into a regular preamp on the thing.
 
I've gotten good results using the bass settings in the Johnson J-station.
 
wes480 said:
the best place to pluck the strings is more towards the neck you are saying?
Click to expand...

Lower and more away from the neck, but that's just on my bass. It probably differs for each one, but the best thing to do is experiment. Your recorded tracks will sound vastly different depending on where the "right hand" action is taking place in relation to the pickup. I get the worst sound if I play directly above the pickup - too much high-end "plunk." If I move down (away from the neck) below the pickup, I get this nice, punchy, thick sound with minimal "thunk." :) It also sits better in the mix and is more defined. The drawback is that it is more difficult to "pick" this way, and is harder on my fingers, because there is less give. It will vary from bass to bass, and pickup to pickup, as well.

I think I just read a review somewhere where the reviewer mentioned he didn't like the Ardvark's input as a D.I. I would definitely look at the Sansamp, an ART Tube MP, a bass POD, or even a dmp3 preamp. An art will give you a nice, smooth tubey sound, while a dmp3 would be much cleaner and natural, and it would double as a really good microphone preamp (as opposed to the ART, which will usually sound like mushy dog poo).
 
Mike Mills uses a P-bass with Ampeg amps. Adam Clayton uses a P or J with Ashdown (his current rig anyway). If that's the sort of sound you want, you DO need to add a little life to your bass with either an amp with at tubeish sound (not peavey) or a DI with good tube sim sound (read: toob).

I've gotten great results with a 67 Bassman into an Ampeg cab. I USED to have a Peavey (TNT-150) and I hated it. But given your budget, the Sans Amp would really work well to get the REM/U2 sound. I have one and I use it all the time now.
 
Awesome...yeah, Mills and Clayton are two of my fav bassists...love their tone and..just playing style.

Actually, I am going back listening to some of Macles songs and realizing that he's as good a bassist as he is anything else...sounds like he really knows how to work that right hand. heh...

thanks for all the tips guys

pikcing up the sansamp in a couple of hours.
 
Just curious . . . does your brother's P-bass have the active pickups (with the 9-volt battery slot in back)?
 
i play a conklin 5-string through the Sans Amp Bass DI into a mackie 1604vlz

when mixing, i've found it necessary to scoop out a lot of the frequencies between 100 - 500hz, or 200 - 500hz depending on where the snare is. my bass just seems to have a natural resonance in the 200hz area.

also, since the cut/boost frequencies on the sansamp are static, you can cut some of the mids out by boosting the bass and treble. i would recommend doing this in live applications, but not in studio applications. in the studio it's better to use your EQ after you record the cleanest signal possible.
 
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