D
DJL
Self Banned
Well, one sure could record a lot of stuff with a Marshall MXLV67G and a matched pair of Marshall MXL603S's that's for sure.
ausrock
Well-known member
Well it will be a C1 and the 603's for me..........just as soon as the 603's arrive from the US, hopefully in the next week or so.
Harvey said a long time back that there isn't really enough difference between the V67 and a C1 to warrant having both, so I don't think I'll bother......although the green and gold sure is pretty
.
Harvey said a long time back that there isn't really enough difference between the V67 and a C1 to warrant having both, so I don't think I'll bother......although the green and gold sure is pretty
.
ausrock
Well-known member
For the information of those who can't source this for themselves...........
US LIST HAS BEEN CONVERTED TO $ AUST.
Mic US List Aust RRP %Difference % Price Reduction
B1 160 249 55% 4%
B3 321 429 34% 8.5%
TB1 644 849 31% 5.5%
C1 483 519 7% 20%
C3 806 799 Negligible 19%
T3 1291 1349 4.5% 15.5%
All figures have been rounded off and may vary slightly day to day, dependant of the current rate of exchange.
Obviously, "street" or "buy" pricing will vary, and as such can't be used for consistent comparisons.
US LIST HAS BEEN CONVERTED TO $ AUST.
Mic US List Aust RRP %Difference % Price Reduction
B1 160 249 55% 4%
B3 321 429 34% 8.5%
TB1 644 849 31% 5.5%
C1 483 519 7% 20%
C3 806 799 Negligible 19%
T3 1291 1349 4.5% 15.5%
All figures have been rounded off and may vary slightly day to day, dependant of the current rate of exchange.
Obviously, "street" or "buy" pricing will vary, and as such can't be used for consistent comparisons.
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dr.colossus
New member
if my comprehension of your chart is right we aren't getting too bad a deal on the "c" series... however the pricing of the "b" series is strange indeed.... it's not like the "B" mics are bigger or hevier and cost more to ship... i cant see why the "c"'s are so close to the u.s. price while the "b"'s are so far off... maybe i'm missing something here
ausrock
Well-known member
Doc,
I spent ages trying to get those figures to line up correctly once I had submitted the post.....eventually I gave up .
But you are correct. The fairest pricing is on the C3, followed by the T3. I'll leave it to your imagination to figure the reasons for the B series pricing.
I spent ages trying to get those figures to line up correctly once I had submitted the post.....eventually I gave up
.But you are correct. The fairest pricing is on the C3, followed by the T3. I'll leave it to your imagination to figure the reasons for the B series pricing.
D
DJL
Self Banned
I wonder why the Studio Projects B series mic's are so dam high over there... I mean $100 more?
ausrock
Well-known member
DJL,
Me too.
For the record, and partly in response to a couple of posts that were in a way "critical" of SP pricing policies here.............
General Observations;
There are laws which make it "illegal" for an o/seas supplier/manufacturer to even attempt to control what an Aust. importer does in regard to pricing. A manufacturer can "suggest" to their Aust., importer/distributor that having parity throughout the various markets is in everones' best interests, but legally, that is all they can do. The only other real alternative is to consider changing distributors.
This option is probably not a viable solution, as to have dealers (stores) actively promoting and selling a product, they will want to have a fair (or more than fair) margin on their buy price, as this gives them the necessary latitude to discount to “street” price while still making a worthwhile profit. Remember that any efficiently managed store has to take into consideration how long an item will sit in stock before it sells……….the longer they have it on the shelf, the more it costs, (this concept may be hard to figure, but it is a fact in business), consequently cutting into the profit margin. The better an item’s profit margin, the more staff will be encouraged to sell that particular item, etc, etc.
Essentially, the same principles apply to the distributors. They need adequate margins on the original buy price from the manufacurer, to cover shipping, import duties, etc before determining the dealers cost and potential profits, etc. Also, someone, somewhere in the chain has to establish access to tech support for service and warranty work……..this can be an additional cost.
For this structure to be truly successful and fair for all parties, there needs to be clear distinctions between the role or functions of; the manufacturer, the importer/distributor and the dealer/retailer. Any of these parties dealing outside of their specific role, are going to undermine the “whole”.
A significant difference between the US and Aust., is that as I understand things, in the US, dealers frequently buy straight from the manufacturer……..there is NO middle man, and this is essentially where the problems with pricing parity start.
SP specific:
What Alan Hyatt has recently achieved with Aust., pricing is admirable, as his distributor could have declined to cooperate. The end result, while not levelling the pricing playing field, has prices generally better than they were a week ago.
Any further improvement would require potentially major restructuring which may not be supported by current sales figures. There are some local factors (potentially slanderous) which make this a Catch 22 situation, and which I cannot raise here without breaking my word to certain people.
So, can there be further improvements?……..Definitely!
Do I expect to see them?………Probably not!
Me too.
For the record, and partly in response to a couple of posts that were in a way "critical" of SP pricing policies here.............
General Observations;
There are laws which make it "illegal" for an o/seas supplier/manufacturer to even attempt to control what an Aust. importer does in regard to pricing. A manufacturer can "suggest" to their Aust., importer/distributor that having parity throughout the various markets is in everones' best interests, but legally, that is all they can do. The only other real alternative is to consider changing distributors.
This option is probably not a viable solution, as to have dealers (stores) actively promoting and selling a product, they will want to have a fair (or more than fair) margin on their buy price, as this gives them the necessary latitude to discount to “street” price while still making a worthwhile profit. Remember that any efficiently managed store has to take into consideration how long an item will sit in stock before it sells……….the longer they have it on the shelf, the more it costs, (this concept may be hard to figure, but it is a fact in business), consequently cutting into the profit margin. The better an item’s profit margin, the more staff will be encouraged to sell that particular item, etc, etc.
Essentially, the same principles apply to the distributors. They need adequate margins on the original buy price from the manufacurer, to cover shipping, import duties, etc before determining the dealers cost and potential profits, etc. Also, someone, somewhere in the chain has to establish access to tech support for service and warranty work……..this can be an additional cost.
For this structure to be truly successful and fair for all parties, there needs to be clear distinctions between the role or functions of; the manufacturer, the importer/distributor and the dealer/retailer. Any of these parties dealing outside of their specific role, are going to undermine the “whole”.
A significant difference between the US and Aust., is that as I understand things, in the US, dealers frequently buy straight from the manufacturer……..there is NO middle man, and this is essentially where the problems with pricing parity start.
SP specific:
What Alan Hyatt has recently achieved with Aust., pricing is admirable, as his distributor could have declined to cooperate. The end result, while not levelling the pricing playing field, has prices generally better than they were a week ago.
Any further improvement would require potentially major restructuring which may not be supported by current sales figures. There are some local factors (potentially slanderous) which make this a Catch 22 situation, and which I cannot raise here without breaking my word to certain people.
So, can there be further improvements?……..Definitely!
Do I expect to see them?………Probably not!
D
DJL
Self Banned
Maybe Mick is just a dirt bag... hey Alan, how come the B series cost $100 more?
ausrock
Well-known member
Mick is..........well he's Mick . And I think the answer to that particular price difference would have to come from him.
. And I think the answer to that particular price difference would have to come from him.
dr.colossus
New member
o.k. heres a theory... back in the day, the ecm8000 was $199aud and in the u.s. equal to about $70aud... o.k. heres how the deal was explained to me...
the old behri distributers had a look at the aussie market and saw the least expensive sd condensor was a leem at $149audrrp.. so knowing they had a superior product they would have thought it rediculous to go below this benchmark price...
here's the deal with ldc's in aus at the moment $199 for the samson co1 and the mxl990.. with the b1 being a superior product what would the motivation be to drop the price to below its competitors? it just wouldn't make sense...
i hope this all made sense, i've had three long days and three fast beers
the old behri distributers had a look at the aussie market and saw the least expensive sd condensor was a leem at $149audrrp.. so knowing they had a superior product they would have thought it rediculous to go below this benchmark price...
here's the deal with ldc's in aus at the moment $199 for the samson co1 and the mxl990.. with the b1 being a superior product what would the motivation be to drop the price to below its competitors? it just wouldn't make sense...
i hope this all made sense, i've had three long days and three fast beers
ausrock
Well-known member
LMAO @ 3 fast beers....................Half your luck.
Actually, the ECM8000's were originally $299. This was reduced to $199 when Behringer originally announced their world-wide price reductions, and from memory, at that time was still way in excess of double the US (or Euro) pricing. The then Behringer distributor, MusicLink's attitude apparently caused sufficient negative feedback to Behringer, that the parent company saw fit to replce MusicLink with their own Aust., distribution setup. That's when we saw the ECM's drop to below $100.
I had had some contact with MusicLink prior to them losing Behr#### and found the staff to be nothing short of rude and arrogant. They seem to have that reputation throughtout the retail end of the industry. I might add, they aren't the only distributor with that kind of reputation.
Actually, the ECM8000's were originally $299. This was reduced to $199 when Behringer originally announced their world-wide price reductions, and from memory, at that time was still way in excess of double the US (or Euro) pricing. The then Behringer distributor, MusicLink's attitude apparently caused sufficient negative feedback to Behringer, that the parent company saw fit to replce MusicLink with their own Aust., distribution setup. That's when we saw the ECM's drop to below $100.
I had had some contact with MusicLink prior to them losing Behr#### and found the staff to be nothing short of rude and arrogant. They seem to have that reputation throughtout the retail end of the industry. I might add, they aren't the only distributor with that kind of reputation.
dr.colossus
New member
crap, i forgot they were $299! would any of you guys from the u.s. pay $150u.s.d for an ecm8000?
M
marcuswilson
New member
I think you guys are getting a reasonable deal on those microphones.
In the US a retail shop:
- buys directly from the manufacturer and sell to the customer
- delivery is a day or 2 so low stock is required
- they need no service dept
- they need no sales people to travel the country enthusing retailers
- warrantee is normally handled by the manufacturer
- also they pay on account (20 to 50 days credit).
The Oz or other importer, on the other hand, has to:
- buy from the manufacturer and sell to a retailer who wants a 50% markup
- delivery is once every few months and has to be a large quantity to make freight cheap (container load)
- need intelligent service person
- has to pay sales staff to go to all the retailers
- has to cover warrantee out of their own stock until they can get replacements from the manufacturer
- pays for the whole shipment BEFORE it leaves the factory, this means their money (maybe $100,000.00) is tied up for 6 to 10 weeks in transit before they can sell 1 item. The whole shipment may take 3 to 6 months to sell and they need to come up with the money again 3 months before the current ones are sold.
- needs a warehouse to store the stuff, a good stock control system etc......
There is no way this importer can compete with the US retailer. It's not a level playing field.
In the US a retail shop:
- buys directly from the manufacturer and sell to the customer
- delivery is a day or 2 so low stock is required
- they need no service dept
- they need no sales people to travel the country enthusing retailers
- warrantee is normally handled by the manufacturer
- also they pay on account (20 to 50 days credit).
The Oz or other importer, on the other hand, has to:
- buy from the manufacturer and sell to a retailer who wants a 50% markup
- delivery is once every few months and has to be a large quantity to make freight cheap (container load)
- need intelligent service person
- has to pay sales staff to go to all the retailers
- has to cover warrantee out of their own stock until they can get replacements from the manufacturer
- pays for the whole shipment BEFORE it leaves the factory, this means their money (maybe $100,000.00) is tied up for 6 to 10 weeks in transit before they can sell 1 item. The whole shipment may take 3 to 6 months to sell and they need to come up with the money again 3 months before the current ones are sold.
- needs a warehouse to store the stuff, a good stock control system etc......
There is no way this importer can compete with the US retailer. It's not a level playing field.
ausrock
Well-known member
Marcus,
Welcome to HR.
QUOTE:.........."There is no way this importer can compete with the US retailer. It's not a level playing field."
More to the point, there is no way an Aust., retailer can "compete" with a US retailer, for the reasons you listed and which I hinted at above. And frankly, it isn't the distributors or retailers that we should be worrying about..........you can bet your arse, that at the end of the day, most of them don't worry too much about the end user.......they are in business to make money.............we should be "worrying" about the price to the guy in the street.
Just as an example, a mic (NOT SP) currently imported into Aust., ..........the retailer buys for approx., $450 (including shipping costs), it has a RRP of $799, but the retailer is likely to sell it for $639 (street price). If the distributor pays more than $250 (incl. shipping) per mic, I'd be very much surprised. This mic has a US list of $399US and a street of $299US ( I only checked Micguys.com).
Out of curiousity, are you just an "end user" or are you involved in the import or retail part of the industry?
If it wasn't for the internet and Forums like HR.com, the majority of end users would be blissfully unaware of o/seas pricing, apart from what may appear in magazines.
Welcome to HR.
QUOTE:.........."There is no way this importer can compete with the US retailer. It's not a level playing field."
More to the point, there is no way an Aust., retailer can "compete" with a US retailer, for the reasons you listed and which I hinted at above. And frankly, it isn't the distributors or retailers that we should be worrying about..........you can bet your arse, that at the end of the day, most of them don't worry too much about the end user.......they are in business to make money.............we should be "worrying" about the price to the guy in the street.
Just as an example, a mic (NOT SP) currently imported into Aust., ..........the retailer buys for approx., $450 (including shipping costs), it has a RRP of $799, but the retailer is likely to sell it for $639 (street price). If the distributor pays more than $250 (incl. shipping) per mic, I'd be very much surprised. This mic has a US list of $399US and a street of $299US ( I only checked Micguys.com).
Out of curiousity, are you just an "end user" or are you involved in the import or retail part of the industry?
If it wasn't for the internet and Forums like HR.com, the majority of end users would be blissfully unaware of o/seas pricing, apart from what may appear in magazines.
M
marcuswilson
New member
Thanks ausrock,
I run a PA hire and installation company. I sell a lot of equipment and consider myself a 'value added reseller'.
I also purchase a lot of gear for my hire company and studio. There are always deals going for the person with the 'cash in hand'.
New Zealand has a culture where people are far more likely to seek out the importer or trade dealer, so the retailer finds it much harder. Also the retail price cannot be specified, so anyone can sell it for whatever price they want.
I tend to seek customers that want my skill and advice so that price is not the top of the list in deciding whom to purchase from. This also helps in being able to specify higher quality products which have better backup and perform better, making the whole project more satisfying.
What is your involvement in the industry?
regards,
I run a PA hire and installation company. I sell a lot of equipment and consider myself a 'value added reseller'.
I also purchase a lot of gear for my hire company and studio. There are always deals going for the person with the 'cash in hand'.
New Zealand has a culture where people are far more likely to seek out the importer or trade dealer, so the retailer finds it much harder. Also the retail price cannot be specified, so anyone can sell it for whatever price they want.
I tend to seek customers that want my skill and advice so that price is not the top of the list in deciding whom to purchase from. This also helps in being able to specify higher quality products which have better backup and perform better, making the whole project more satisfying.
What is your involvement in the industry?
regards,
A
alfalfa
New member
The Australian price of behringer microphones and products is competitive when compared with prices overseas. As mentioned previously this only occured after behringer dumped their previous distributor and setup their own distribution network. I agree with Dr Colossus' comment that most Australian distributors set prices on a 'what the market will bear' basis rather than a 'cost plus' basis. If we can get behringer products at comparable to overseas prices why cant we expect to get other pro audio products at comparable prices. Otherwise people will continue to mailorder from overseas hurting local retailers. I would like to support my local retailer by buying from them but I cant if the distributor sets totally uncompetitive prices.
I applaud studio projects for making efforts to make them australian prices more comparable to the US, though the B series and vtb-1 prices are still very high.
I applaud studio projects for making efforts to make them australian prices more comparable to the US, though the B series and vtb-1 prices are still very high.
ausrock
Well-known member
Marcus,
No involvement that is of consequence here..............'twas just your first post indicated an "insider" knowledge and I wondered if you were from Oceania, the NZ distributors for SP, but obviously you're not.
No involvement that is of consequence here..............'twas just your first post indicated an "insider" knowledge and I wondered if you were from Oceania, the NZ distributors for SP, but obviously you're not.
M
marcuswilson
New member
ausrock,
I have dealings with Oceania and most of the other importers, but I run my own company in Wellington, not Auckland! I have been in the industry for over 20 years and have seen many changes come along. We used to have such high duties making imports so expensive, we built our own gear. Now there are no duties and the prices here are cheaper than Australia.
It's great to see the manufacturer and dealers making attempts to get the prices down as on this BBS. There are many well established manufacturer's that will not even discuss pricing with the importer, just impose it.
I would guess that the Australian importer takes smaller quantities than the guitar centre in the US with much more effort required on the part of the manufacturer. The New Zealand importer probably sells less than one major US retail store. You can see why the US manufacturers don't try very hard with us.
I have dealings with Oceania and most of the other importers, but I run my own company in Wellington, not Auckland! I have been in the industry for over 20 years and have seen many changes come along. We used to have such high duties making imports so expensive, we built our own gear. Now there are no duties and the prices here are cheaper than Australia.
It's great to see the manufacturer and dealers making attempts to get the prices down as on this BBS. There are many well established manufacturer's that will not even discuss pricing with the importer, just impose it.
I would guess that the Australian importer takes smaller quantities than the guitar centre in the US with much more effort required on the part of the manufacturer. The New Zealand importer probably sells less than one major US retail store. You can see why the US manufacturers don't try very hard with us.
ausrock
Well-known member
Marcus,
I see what you are saying.
I am seriously considering contacting Oceania myself, to check out the viability of importing from them.
I see what you are saying.
I am seriously considering contacting Oceania myself, to check out the viability of importing from them.
D
DJL
Self Banned
Markets can grow, and people do remember who was cool /or not... and that info gets passed on to others as well.marcuswilson said:
So Mick of FEA, does the cat have your tongue? Why are your Studio Projects B series mic's priced so high? Speak up.
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