ausrock
Well-known member
Mark!!! Behave yourself. 
Markd102
New member
Forgive me for being skeptical 
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Glawfindle
New member
Seriously guys, why would you even consider buying a C1 over a Rode NT1000 (at approx. the same price) when the Rode sounds vastly superior in every way (noise level, clarity, smooth top end, the way they record solo and sit in a mix etc. etc. ) on almost every sound source anyway? I have also found the Rode NT1-A more suitable than the C1 for all of my recording applcations so far - in fact, depending on your budget, the NT1-A (noticeably quieter and smoother top end than the original NT1) makes a good alternative to the NT1000 - and is far better value than the C1 in Australia - in fact, considering the price inequality between the Rodes and all of the other imported mics, it makes you wonder how few of these imported mics are actually sold in Australia?
Please, don't only take my word for it - sound is subjective so go and compare them for yourselves (if you haven't already) in the place where you normally record - then you will understand my point of view even clearer.
BTW, I have no affiliation with Rode and I have compared the above four mics extensively on various sources including m/f vox, acoustic and electric instruments etc.
Please, don't only take my word for it - sound is subjective so go and compare them for yourselves (if you haven't already) in the place where you normally record - then you will understand my point of view even clearer.
BTW, I have no affiliation with Rode and I have compared the above four mics extensively on various sources including m/f vox, acoustic and electric instruments etc.
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Adzzz
New member
Fair Point
Fair Point
Although I think the C1 actually is a great budget mic for a beginner or hobbyist, the Rode mics do sound supeior. The NT1 is not one of my favorites, but I'd certainly choose it over a C1. The Rode NT2, Rode NTK and Rode Classic all get extensive use on vocals and as ambient mics in our studio. The C1 has produced some good results on acoustic guitar, which was surprising considering it's a large diaphram condensor. However, when recorded though the Avalon 737 it sounds terribly harsh, and you can cetainly hear the quality gap between the Rodes and the C1 when puit through a high end mic pre-amp.
A.
Fair Point
Although I think the C1 actually is a great budget mic for a beginner or hobbyist, the Rode mics do sound supeior. The NT1 is not one of my favorites, but I'd certainly choose it over a C1. The Rode NT2, Rode NTK and Rode Classic all get extensive use on vocals and as ambient mics in our studio. The C1 has produced some good results on acoustic guitar, which was surprising considering it's a large diaphram condensor. However, when recorded though the Avalon 737 it sounds terribly harsh, and you can cetainly hear the quality gap between the Rodes and the C1 when puit through a high end mic pre-amp.
A.
Markd102
New member
Good points guys, but the debate here is not about which mic is better. It's all about pricing equality.
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Glawfindle
New member
Price equality - OK, if the 'street price' of a Rode NT1000 is $479(AUS), what do you think the 'street price' of a C1 or any other condenser mic with a fixed cardioid polar pattern should be in Australia?
Or, is it even possible for the imported mics to be on a similar pricing structure to the Rodes? I can't see how other imported mics can really compete (on price, let alone sound quality) with Rode - unless they make a lower profit margin for themselves - or start making them down here as well.
Or, is it even possible for the imported mics to be on a similar pricing structure to the Rodes? I can't see how other imported mics can really compete (on price, let alone sound quality) with Rode - unless they make a lower profit margin for themselves - or start making them down here as well.
ausrock
Well-known member
Mic selection is very subjective and I have no doubt about the quality of Rode's mics in general.
I do however have an issue with their business ethics and attitudes, something which I have no intention of "airing" here. Consequently, on principle, I will not be buying any Rode mic in the foreseeable future. I have used NT2s and recently an NTK along side a C1...............for the particular singer, the C1 was the better choice. Obviously a different vocalist may require a different mic.
The same can apply to micing acoustics. We have 3 Matons, (2 CW80's and a 525) as well as having both a 325 and a 225 here frequently, and each one has different needs where micing is concerned.
What would be interesting is to have an independent assessment and comparison of the capsules from an NT1 or NT2 and a C1, as they are all manufactured by 797 Audio, whereas most of the other budget mics come from either Feilo (sp) or Soundking. There are also strong rumours within the industry that some of the well respected Euro and US manufacturers also use these sources for some of their models.
I do however have an issue with their business ethics and attitudes, something which I have no intention of "airing" here. Consequently, on principle, I will not be buying any Rode mic in the foreseeable future. I have used NT2s and recently an NTK along side a C1...............for the particular singer, the C1 was the better choice. Obviously a different vocalist may require a different mic.
The same can apply to micing acoustics. We have 3 Matons, (2 CW80's and a 525) as well as having both a 325 and a 225 here frequently, and each one has different needs where micing is concerned.
What would be interesting is to have an independent assessment and comparison of the capsules from an NT1 or NT2 and a C1, as they are all manufactured by 797 Audio, whereas most of the other budget mics come from either Feilo (sp) or Soundking. There are also strong rumours within the industry that some of the well respected Euro and US manufacturers also use these sources for some of their models.
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Adzzz
New member
Well, like I posted earlier, you're simply not going to get pricing equality on the C1 down under until "companies" like Studio Projects start shipping direct to Oz. To buyt a C1 in Oz you're paying shipping/handling/import duiteis/customs tax, etc, etc from Asia to the USA.....THEN you're paying everything all over again from the USA to Oz. Simply unprofessional and thoughtless. These costs (in addition to dealer mark-up) are then passed on to the customer. BOO.
This situation proves that these people claiming to "care" about the Aussie end-user don't give a flying fark. If they did honestly care, this situation would never have eventuated in the first place. The least they could do would be firstly to apoligize and then start shipping direct immediately. But don't hold your breath...they won't do it, because it's all "too hard" for such a small market like Oz. Jeez, they can't even control their dealers' end price to the consumer.
...what else is new...
Adzzz
This situation proves that these people claiming to "care" about the Aussie end-user don't give a flying fark. If they did honestly care, this situation would never have eventuated in the first place. The least they could do would be firstly to apoligize and then start shipping direct immediately. But don't hold your breath...they won't do it, because it's all "too hard" for such a small market like Oz. Jeez, they can't even control their dealers' end price to the consumer.
...what else is new...
Adzzz
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Glawfindle
New member
Ausrock - I agree that sometimes certain mics may surprise and sound better than other mics on a particular source, on a particular day, in a particular environment etc. than you would have originally guessed. That is why experimentation and mic placement, recording environment etc. is so important.
Although, I'm not 100% certain on where all manufacturers get their parts from. I'm not particularly concerned with this - I'm more interested in sound quality and choosing the best mic for a particular source to achieve the sound that myself or the artist is looking for. eg. If a C1 sounded better on a particular vocalist than an NT3, then I would use the C1, regardless of where either of the mics parts came from.
Although, I'm not 100% certain on where all manufacturers get their parts from. I'm not particularly concerned with this - I'm more interested in sound quality and choosing the best mic for a particular source to achieve the sound that myself or the artist is looking for. eg. If a C1 sounded better on a particular vocalist than an NT3, then I would use the C1, regardless of where either of the mics parts came from.
Markd102
New member
Glawfindle
You are missing the point here my friend. We are not debating which mic is better or which mic is cheaper.
We are simply debating why there are enormouse differences in the normal street price of (in this case) the SP C1. We expect to pay a little more, but not as much as is being charged.
Peace
Mark
You are missing the point here my friend. We are not debating which mic is better or which mic is cheaper.
We are simply debating why there are enormouse differences in the normal street price of (in this case) the SP C1. We expect to pay a little more, but not as much as is being charged.
Peace
Mark
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Glawfindle
New member
Mark, yup...of course I think the much higher pricing of imported gear sux here as well. It is ridiculous that us end users can import items cheaper than buying them here from retailers. However, if we do this, we jeopardise our chances of any servicing that may be required as well.
What do you think is a reasonable street price for the C1 in Oz...or, if you would prefer to be non specific, is there a certain % that you think imported gear should be dropped by?
What do you think is a reasonable street price for the C1 in Oz...or, if you would prefer to be non specific, is there a certain % that you think imported gear should be dropped by?
ausrock
Well-known member
Adzzz,
How and why the situation developed is unfortunate, but of little consequence. What is of some importance, is our attempts to get prices onto something of a level playing field and I KNOW that Alan Hyatt is trying to help with this, but I also understand why he isn't able to change things overnight.
Unfortunately, none of the other manufacturers have ever bothered to make themselves so freely available and I personally have no intention of starting a bloody crusade against them all. However, should the opportunity arise to question their pricing structures out here, then I would take it.
Glaw,
Rode have been shafting us with their pricing for a long time and it is only with the more recent appearance of these other Asian sourced mics that we have seen a change from Rode. Believe me, I know enough major retailers who from past experiences will now only deal with Rode if they HAVE to, they don't do it by choice.
How and why the situation developed is unfortunate, but of little consequence. What is of some importance, is our attempts to get prices onto something of a level playing field and I KNOW that Alan Hyatt is trying to help with this, but I also understand why he isn't able to change things overnight.
Unfortunately, none of the other manufacturers have ever bothered to make themselves so freely available and I personally have no intention of starting a bloody crusade against them all. However, should the opportunity arise to question their pricing structures out here, then I would take it.
Glaw,
Rode have been shafting us with their pricing for a long time and it is only with the more recent appearance of these other Asian sourced mics that we have seen a change from Rode. Believe me, I know enough major retailers who from past experiences will now only deal with Rode if they HAVE to, they don't do it by choice.
ausrock
Well-known member
Markd102
New member
I think $380 AUD is fair.
Street price in USA is $199. Now that in AUD is $324.
If they can't be got here for $56 each, then I'll give up and go live under a rock.
Street price in USA is $199. Now that in AUD is $324.
If they can't be got here for $56 each, then I'll give up and go live under a rock.
G
Glawfindle
New member
Thats interesting Aus. How have Rode been shafting us? Wasn't the original NT1 superior in sound but less expensive than some other well known mics from manufacturers that have been around for years? Weren't Rode near the forefront of making gear much more affordable for the home recordist?
Yes, I've noticed Rodes prices have dropped further over the last year or so and part of the reason may have been in response to imported mics entering our shores. But, most people are in business to make some level of profit - if you were selling a product, would you sell it at the lowest possible price or would you make more on it if you could? Depends how you run your business I guess.
And, I know many retailers who would prefer to deal with Rode over other mic companies - part of the reason probably being they have customers coming into their store asking for Rode. The cost of other similar mics just seems to be so much higher.
reddit!
Yes, I've noticed Rodes prices have dropped further over the last year or so and part of the reason may have been in response to imported mics entering our shores. But, most people are in business to make some level of profit - if you were selling a product, would you sell it at the lowest possible price or would you make more on it if you could? Depends how you run your business I guess.
And, I know many retailers who would prefer to deal with Rode over other mic companies - part of the reason probably being they have customers coming into their store asking for Rode. The cost of other similar mics just seems to be so much higher.
reddit!
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Adzzz
New member
380 AUD Fair?
Why is that fair, if the yanks are paying the equivalent of AUD 324?
This is a classic example of the culture that exists in Oz that we expect to pay more than the yanks do, even if it's unfair. This culture has bred over many years of being shafted by foreign manufacturers.
Let's look at this logically. If the mic is manufactured on our doorstep in Asia, shipping to OZ should cost at the very WORST, the same price that it costs to ship the mic to the USA....right?!? Please tell me if you think that's a false assumption.
So, if the shipping costs should be at worst, the same as the USA....then why aren't we paying the same price as the USA?!? The simple FACT is, that we should by all means be paying a street price in OZ of around AUD $330. The reason we're paying a lot, LOT MORE (sometimes literally hunderds $$$ more), is because of:
* incompetant business decisions and shipping "solutions" by Studio Projects
* Studio Projects inability to control their delears to set fair and reasonable prices
* distributor's/dealer's greed, SP's lack of action in actually doing the right thing.
Please explain to me how hard it is for Studio Projects to change the address on a box of mics from a US dealer's name to an Australian one?
To all those people who seem intent on defending these tactics, please re-read this post with a clear mind and I'm sure you'll finally be able to awake, and smell the roses....
They simpy don't give a rats...
Adzzz
Why is that fair, if the yanks are paying the equivalent of AUD 324?
This is a classic example of the culture that exists in Oz that we expect to pay more than the yanks do, even if it's unfair. This culture has bred over many years of being shafted by foreign manufacturers.
Let's look at this logically. If the mic is manufactured on our doorstep in Asia, shipping to OZ should cost at the very WORST, the same price that it costs to ship the mic to the USA....right?!? Please tell me if you think that's a false assumption.
So, if the shipping costs should be at worst, the same as the USA....then why aren't we paying the same price as the USA?!? The simple FACT is, that we should by all means be paying a street price in OZ of around AUD $330. The reason we're paying a lot, LOT MORE (sometimes literally hunderds $$$ more), is because of:
* incompetant business decisions and shipping "solutions" by Studio Projects
* Studio Projects inability to control their delears to set fair and reasonable prices
* distributor's/dealer's greed, SP's lack of action in actually doing the right thing.
Please explain to me how hard it is for Studio Projects to change the address on a box of mics from a US dealer's name to an Australian one?
To all those people who seem intent on defending these tactics, please re-read this post with a clear mind and I'm sure you'll finally be able to awake, and smell the roses....
They simpy don't give a rats...
Adzzz
ausrock
Well-known member
Glaw,
Like I said earlier, I have no intention of sticking my neck out too far on this, but you went some way to answering your questions in the second paragraph.
And yes, Rode were at the forefront of the "cheaper" mic revolution, although from memory, 6 or 8 years ago, their pricing was somewhat out of the reach of the average home recordist.
And yes, there are dealers who wish to deal with Rode. Even more so recently, as they're getting better margins, etc., from Rode.
Just imagine what Rode prices could be if all the newer imports came down in price. Maybe in time this is something we may see.
Like I said earlier, I have no intention of sticking my neck out too far on this, but you went some way to answering your questions in the second paragraph.
And yes, Rode were at the forefront of the "cheaper" mic revolution, although from memory, 6 or 8 years ago, their pricing was somewhat out of the reach of the average home recordist.
And yes, there are dealers who wish to deal with Rode. Even more so recently, as they're getting better margins, etc., from Rode.
Just imagine what Rode prices could be if all the newer imports came down in price. Maybe in time this is something we may see.
G
Glawfindle
New member
Aus if I was a retailer and I was offered bigger margins from Rode than other manufacturers then I would sell their mics too. If these larger margins are in fact correct, maybe it is the retailers and not Rode who are making what some would call greedy profit levels(?)
I've never needed to use it myself but I have heard from several people that if you have a problem with a Rode mic their service is impeccable. V. quick turnaround - like a day or two. Performance and service at a reasonable price - these are the things that are important to me when I buy recording equipment.
If they keep flying the imported mics around the world before they land in Australia - I'm unsure how these imported mics would reduce in price(?) Alan, why do SP mics need to be sent from China to the USA, then to Australia?
Adzzz, good call - ideally we should be paying the same price as the USA for SP mics...if they didn't have to be shipped to the USA first and of course taking the currency difference into account. I guess this also means cutting out the Oz distributor.
G'nite
Glawfindle
I've never needed to use it myself but I have heard from several people that if you have a problem with a Rode mic their service is impeccable. V. quick turnaround - like a day or two. Performance and service at a reasonable price - these are the things that are important to me when I buy recording equipment.
If they keep flying the imported mics around the world before they land in Australia - I'm unsure how these imported mics would reduce in price(?) Alan, why do SP mics need to be sent from China to the USA, then to Australia?
Adzzz, good call - ideally we should be paying the same price as the USA for SP mics...if they didn't have to be shipped to the USA first and of course taking the currency difference into account. I guess this also means cutting out the Oz distributor.
G'nite
Glawfindle
ausrock
Well-known member
At present, off the top of my head (for what it's worth), I can think of 3 main brands of "budget" being imported.........Studio Projects, ADK and more recently, MXL. Of these, SP are the only company who have made no secret about their products origins to the point of putting the Chinese manufacturing companies name on the mics.
I have first hand experience of being bullshitted to by sales staff in Sydney as to the origins of ADK, on more than one occasion.
Add to these three brands the numerous small companies (MANN, SP Pro, etc) who are bringing in "off the shelf mics", including some carrying the Feilo brand name, and then are trying to pass them off in lower level outlets and on Ebay as being the next best thing to a Neumann without disclosing their origins. Apparently, there is nothing in the Trade Practices Act which can control this.
SP are the only company who at present are both being communicative and showing signs of wanting this situation to change. I for one am more than prepared to give them the chance.
As for the pricing issue and who has been or is shafting who, have a read of this extract from a letter from Peter Freedman, CEO of Rode, concerning pricing differences between here and the US..............................
QUOTE:.........“ Firstly, you must remember we pay duty on all imported components used in Rode mics. Given our mics use components ENTIRELY SOURCED FROM OVERSEAS, we pay quite a bit of duty. Add to that you have the 10% GST which is included in the Australian list price.
As far as the US prices go: we ship containers to our warehouse in the US. The freight costs per mic are a few cents, so that does not impact—you can fit a lot of mics in a 20ft box! But, we don’t have to pay the Australian import duty on parts we use for exports! We also pay no GST! Furthermore, the prices we published in the US were an introductory special—the list for the NTK will soon be US$995! “
Peter Freedman, CEO of Rode Microphones.
That was his way of justifying lower pricing in the US compared to Aust.
I have first hand experience of being bullshitted to by sales staff in Sydney as to the origins of ADK, on more than one occasion.
Add to these three brands the numerous small companies (MANN, SP Pro, etc) who are bringing in "off the shelf mics", including some carrying the Feilo brand name, and then are trying to pass them off in lower level outlets and on Ebay as being the next best thing to a Neumann without disclosing their origins. Apparently, there is nothing in the Trade Practices Act which can control this.
SP are the only company who at present are both being communicative and showing signs of wanting this situation to change. I for one am more than prepared to give them the chance.
As for the pricing issue and who has been or is shafting who, have a read of this extract from a letter from Peter Freedman, CEO of Rode, concerning pricing differences between here and the US..............................
QUOTE:.........“ Firstly, you must remember we pay duty on all imported components used in Rode mics. Given our mics use components ENTIRELY SOURCED FROM OVERSEAS, we pay quite a bit of duty. Add to that you have the 10% GST which is included in the Australian list price.
As far as the US prices go: we ship containers to our warehouse in the US. The freight costs per mic are a few cents, so that does not impact—you can fit a lot of mics in a 20ft box! But, we don’t have to pay the Australian import duty on parts we use for exports! We also pay no GST! Furthermore, the prices we published in the US were an introductory special—the list for the NTK will soon be US$995! “
Peter Freedman, CEO of Rode Microphones.
That was his way of justifying lower pricing in the US compared to Aust.
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Glawfindle
New member
Ausrock why do you seem to be so hung up on the origin of some of the parts of some microphones? If a company tells us or doesn't tell us about their suppliers....so what (if stringent testing is in place). And...I don't think components (ie. resistors and capacitors) are even made in Australia anyway. Do you really expect Rode to manufacture these (if they are thoroughly testing them and ensuring they meet their QC levels) as well or concentrate on making microphones?
Are Rode mics much cheaper in the US than Australia? If so, do you think it has anything to do with more and cheaper competing brands over there?
Are Rode mics much cheaper in the US than Australia? If so, do you think it has anything to do with more and cheaper competing brands over there?