M
MCI2424
New member
Harvey Gerst said:
The KM184s are the second most hated mics of Neumann's making.
The KM184s are the second most hated mics of Neumann's making.
H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Yup, and with a list price of $1,100 each for the Neumann KM184's, I'll be quite happy with my 3 pair of MXL603's or my 604's.MCI2424 said:
M
MCI2424
New member
Harvey Gerst said:
Right On!.....
daav
Flailing up a storm.
I was A/B ing mine (sort if there were lots of variables between the recordings, like fans running in the areas and such) with the MSH01s on nylon string acoustic yesterday and i was struggling with the 603s until i did what Harvey suggests earlier, take them off axis. I was using a stereo bar X/Y and when i pointed it just about straight down it helped tame some of the harshness. I was having a hard time with the not-great-sounds of my poor performance (string noise) and it helped, but not enough to make up for my technique.
i found the MSH01s to sound better actually for the guitar, but on the fairly quiet source, the self noise was kind of loud when the gain was up. I want to go back with them though and try in a more isolated area (I have a "vocal booth" made with some absorbtion that is a bit quieter than my "live" room, which is the basement itself.
daav
i found the MSH01s to sound better actually for the guitar, but on the fairly quiet source, the self noise was kind of loud when the gain was up. I want to go back with them though and try in a more isolated area (I have a "vocal booth" made with some absorbtion that is a bit quieter than my "live" room, which is the basement itself.
daav
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Scrubs, this is really a problem for me with 603s. I've tried X-Y placement and single-mic placement pointing well off the body, from various directions, and I still get a very prominent boomy sound. What are your recommendations for the placement of 603s for steel-string acoustic? (I'm thinking I may have a room problem rather than a mic problem, as I've been trying to record in a small untreated alcove off my bedroom.)scrubs said:
T
travelin travis
New member
back the mic away from the guitar. the further away, the less boom.
scrubs
Not of sound mind
Zaphod B said:
I agree with Travis. You've got to move them around. Futher away will minimize proximity effect (but increase room sound). Avoid the soundhole.
My personal favorites are the classic "12th-14th fret" pointed at the fingerboard. Start at 1-2 feet away. Point away from the soundhole if you're getting too much boom. I've also used them as a pair in ORTF, where the space between the mics was centered right over the soundhole, again 1-2 ft out. I usually low-cut/shelf the low end on acoustic tracks, too.
Other options would be vertical XY (one is pointing toward the bass strings, the other toward the treble strings), spaced pair (one on the 12th fret, one by the bridge; one on the 12th fret, one by the guitarists right ear, pointing down at the bridge; or one above the 12th fret pointing down at the floor, one by the bridge; etc.).
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Thanks, Travis and Scrubs. I must be too close, since I've been placing them about a foot out, max. I'll back them off.
Seems like my best result so far has been a single mic aimed at the 12-14th fret area, but there is still some boominess. I guess I've been concerned about picking up too much room.
Seems like my best result so far has been a single mic aimed at the 12-14th fret area, but there is still some boominess. I guess I've been concerned about picking up too much room.
T
travelin travis
New member
Zaphod B said:
Do you have any gobos? Or extra mic stands and heavy blankets? That would be worth a try. Myself, I think the 603 has a tendency to be boomy on acoustic guitar. I seem to be more worried about not getting a boomy sound than getting a desired sound when I use the 603 on acoustic guitar. If you haven't already, you should try an omni mic.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
What's a gobo? 
T
travelin travis
New member
Zaphod B said:What's a gobo?
It's just a divider with some sound absorption material on it. Used to control bleed or kill room reflections. Plywood, 703 insulation, and fabric seems to be pretty popular for diy gobos. Anything to cut down the room reflections would be worth a try.
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Cool, good idea. Time for a Home Depot run. 
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
TravisinFlorida said:
Bingo.
I usually like 18" - 24" for stereo micing. It lets the guit breath.
H
hairylarry
New member
rigid fiberglass
Hi,
You won't find it at Home Depot. You have to go to a heating and air conditioning supplier. I bought the Knauf product (similar to Owens Corning 703) at HVAC.
For gobos get the 1 inch with aluminum backing. This is probably all they stock anyway. You've seen it installed around ductwork.
Then get some on sale burlap or other fabric that you can breath through. Wrap the fiberglass side and glue it to the shiny side with Quick Dry Tacky Glue. I got my burlap and Tacky glue at Walmarts but you can get them anywhere. $1 a yard at Walmarts meant $1/gobo. The rigid fiberglass will run close to $1/sq ft. So a 2' x 4' gobo runs under $10 to make.
For more bass conditioning make it two inches thick. Peel the foil off of one of the sheets so you don't have foil in the middle. Otherwise you only get the same acoustic properties as one inch gives.
http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
At ethanwiner.com there's a ton more info and a list of 10 or more manufacturers. Don't worry if you have to buy a full sheet. The same fiberglass can be used to treat your mixdown room.
And build bass traps.
http://ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html
Now as far as the 603 goes I like one over the shoulder pointing down at the body of the guitar probably 16-20 inches away. When I compared it to my AT Pro37 in the same position the Pro37 had more detail in the highs. They did, however, sound very similar.
I did a shootout.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=224642
MXL 770, MXL 603, Superlux CM-H8C, and AT4054. You can link on over to listen to the clips and read what I have to say.
One of the commenters liked the 770 best. The 770 is like a cheaper side address 603.
So ... hey!
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
Hi,
You won't find it at Home Depot. You have to go to a heating and air conditioning supplier. I bought the Knauf product (similar to Owens Corning 703) at HVAC.
For gobos get the 1 inch with aluminum backing. This is probably all they stock anyway. You've seen it installed around ductwork.
Then get some on sale burlap or other fabric that you can breath through. Wrap the fiberglass side and glue it to the shiny side with Quick Dry Tacky Glue. I got my burlap and Tacky glue at Walmarts but you can get them anywhere. $1 a yard at Walmarts meant $1/gobo. The rigid fiberglass will run close to $1/sq ft. So a 2' x 4' gobo runs under $10 to make.
For more bass conditioning make it two inches thick. Peel the foil off of one of the sheets so you don't have foil in the middle. Otherwise you only get the same acoustic properties as one inch gives.
http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
At ethanwiner.com there's a ton more info and a list of 10 or more manufacturers. Don't worry if you have to buy a full sheet. The same fiberglass can be used to treat your mixdown room.
And build bass traps.
http://ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html
Now as far as the 603 goes I like one over the shoulder pointing down at the body of the guitar probably 16-20 inches away. When I compared it to my AT Pro37 in the same position the Pro37 had more detail in the highs. They did, however, sound very similar.
I did a shootout.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=224642
MXL 770, MXL 603, Superlux CM-H8C, and AT4054. You can link on over to listen to the clips and read what I have to say.
One of the commenters liked the 770 best. The 770 is like a cheaper side address 603.
So ... hey!
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
junplugged
Taking the slow road
after hearing that the 603 can change caps i tried unscrewing my 991 but only the base moved the top and tube are really tight, i guess they don't want it to come off?
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Thanks, hairylarry. 
K
K-dub
Well-known member
Gobos are a good idea, but in most home recording situations, there will be SOME room bleeding into miked situations.
Room bleed, btw ... isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's the nature of the room, the sound of it, where the distinction is made.
I like my 603's, and even though I was kindly sent instructions for the Mod (which I still have), I was too lazy to do it -- preferring, I guess, to twist the eq knob instead.
I think Harvey really had it when he said, "Placement is king" (or to that effect) -- as the 603 is going to sound like, um, the 603 --- and a really good sound CAN be had out of it. I like the AT4050 too ... it's a bit warmer. I've also gotten good results out of my NT2-a.
My normal technique is to use one -- miked similar to Scrubs suggested earlier (about 18" out and pointed off axis from the top of the guitar back towards where the neck and body of the guitar meet). I'll use stereo only if the guitar is the only instrument in the mix, and I want it LARGE.
Once the mic is set, instead of fiddling w/ the mic, fiddle with the performer. Have them turn a little this way and that -- and get a generally good balance of the low end. THEN have the performer then try to hold steady in that area.
For one can set a mic up perfectly, and if the performer changes THEIR position, the mic's original position becomes irrelevant.
Part of the decision process is how much room one desires in the final result. Achieving the right balance during tracking for the individual production is part of the trick of it.
Best,
Kev-
Room bleed, btw ... isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's the nature of the room, the sound of it, where the distinction is made.
I like my 603's, and even though I was kindly sent instructions for the Mod (which I still have), I was too lazy to do it -- preferring, I guess, to twist the eq knob instead.
I think Harvey really had it when he said, "Placement is king" (or to that effect) -- as the 603 is going to sound like, um, the 603 --- and a really good sound CAN be had out of it. I like the AT4050 too ... it's a bit warmer. I've also gotten good results out of my NT2-a.
My normal technique is to use one -- miked similar to Scrubs suggested earlier (about 18" out and pointed off axis from the top of the guitar back towards where the neck and body of the guitar meet). I'll use stereo only if the guitar is the only instrument in the mix, and I want it LARGE.
Once the mic is set, instead of fiddling w/ the mic, fiddle with the performer. Have them turn a little this way and that -- and get a generally good balance of the low end. THEN have the performer then try to hold steady in that area.
For one can set a mic up perfectly, and if the performer changes THEIR position, the mic's original position becomes irrelevant.
Part of the decision process is how much room one desires in the final result. Achieving the right balance during tracking for the individual production is part of the trick of it.
Best,
Kev-