Must get this kick sound....

[asi9]

Okay, I'm ready to sell everything I own to get whatever the hell I need to get this kick sound. Instead of trying to describe it, I just made several soundclips (.mp3) by several bands that have similar qualities of what I'm looking for:

http://www.psychostick.com/sounds/kornkick1.mp3" -[Clip 1]- This is the best example I can find. Very centered, tight and full sound.<BR>

-[Clip 2]- Another good example, but you only get to hear one hit before the rest of the tracks 'kick' in (no pun intended). This could be good though, because you get to hear how well it cuts through the mix.<BR>

-[Clip 3]- This one sounds good, but a little more low end than I would like.... but I think it may partly be because the drum sounds like it's tuned lower.<BR>

-[Clip 4]- This isn't a great example, but it is still similar. I think if it wasn't so 'tappy' and had more low end, it would sound closer.


How do they do that? Any ideas of mic types/placements/eq settings? Do they possible have some triggered midi drums sounds in there mixed in? Do they digital double it an octave down? WHAAAAAAT?!?!?

Thank you for your time, I look forward to hearing some theories.

 

[Shailat]

There are som many factors to getting a sound like mic choice and room it's recorded in and drum kit and more and more.....

Try this and see how it works.


Remove front head - place foam pad or blanket or pillow against rear head to minimize ring -tune drum (a bit tighter might help) - place mic about 5 inches inside drum centered on beater - position mic so it's off axis to aviod air explodeing into mic -compress kick -add gate to shut down boom as you like (if at all) - Eq to liking (try cutting low mids around 200-600Hz, this will clear it up) then try to eq some low end around 75-150Hz for power thump, then boost some 3-5kHz for more defenition-attack and impact. By folowing my Equing suggestions, try to eq it to what you want.

This should get you close enough for you to tweek and get what you want.

 

[hitman]

PAT and OOMPH!

Those are the sounds you're looking for. The trick is tuning and playing. start with a single ply head. Two ply heads only deliver "PAT" (and durability) but not enough "oomph". Detune the head till it flops right out. Now while pressing down in the center (not too hard) with your palm tighten up the skin using the opposite lug tuning system (see bob gatzen's "DRUM TUNING" video) until you get all the wrinkles out (this is easier to do with a clear head than with a coated because the clear heads reflect light). Now the drum is low and loose, and one wrinkle will not kill you so don't over-fuss about it. Pack the drum with a heavy blanket so it sit low in the drum, and make sure the blanket is firm up against the bottom of the head or else your mic will not pick up the "pat" which comes from the striking point. This is why i do not recommend foam. It's too rigid and it can't be adjusted. Now play the kick...your pedal should fell like it's hitting a hard "PILLOW" and the beater should sink into the head without bouncing. If you play heel down, all the better, because you probably don't bury the beater after you strike. Now you're HALFWAY to a killer kick sound. The other half is the front head. It should be solid in the centre of the head so cut your hole off towards the edge of the head (as close as you can stand it (I usually cut it about 1 1/2" from the edge) You need the centre of the intact...To achieve the "OOM" in the "OOMPH" Do you follow? Now withyour front skin tuned the same way as your batter skin, Shove your hand through the hole in the front head and adjust the blanket to muffle the front head similar to the back head, only LESS. if you play heelup you get less "OOMPH" than if you play heel down. Try that for starters...if you have the patience.

PEACE, HITMAN

 

[RyanV]

Want that sound? Good luck dude...

Check it out...You want that sound? Ever seen Korn live? How bout live videos? David has triggers on his snare, toms and kick....Now figure this....the guy uses a lot of midi sequence stuff on the record, so imagine what he uses on his kit....Listen to Pantera...vinnie triggers his kick. It's a sad thing, but triggers are needed for the crazy sounds of today. And if you dont want to get triggers, you could try stacking the effects, but who knows what you'll get...never know, it could be your own new thing! Good luck -RyanV

 

[asi9]

First of all, thanks for the responses, I'm gonna try all of that stuff, and I bet I'll get a better sound.

Triggered bass drum is something I've considered a bunch of times, but I'm not sure which what 'midi' gadgets have a good assortment of bass drum tones that I could use? I'm not sure what kind of midi things I would have to even buy... would it be a drum module, perhaps? How much are they? Where could I get them? What's the square root of 354,236 cubed?

 

[Diragor]

Over the years I've finally gotten the snare and kick sounds I want (still working on toms), here's what I'm doing now:

1) I use the Evans Retro head kit - a normal 2-ply batter head with a front head that is a screen.

2) Tune both heads as low (loose) as they'll stay without wrinkles (finger-tight plus a turn or two).

3) Use a kick pad on the batter head and plastic beaters. Danmar kick pad for very defined *click* sound, softer Falams pad for some definition but less click (I think Danmars seem to sacrifice some *oomph*).

4) Mount the small pillow that comes with the Retro head kit so that it touches the batter head but isn't mashed against it. It mounts to the shell with velcro strips so it won't move.

5) Stick a mic directly in front of the striking point an inch from the screen.

So there's my $.02 on the issue. For more kick drum sound advice than you could possibly want, check this out: http://www.drummerstuff.com/ar_tdrums/td9910.html

 

[asi9]

Think we got it....

Last night we were experimenting, and combined similar tunings/settings for a real kick and combined it with a triggered midi bass drum..... and I have to say I am fairly pleased with it. Thanks everyone for their input!!!

 

[johnnypublic]

here's the trick kidz. Take the front head off your kick drum, put another kick drum (w/ no heads) up against it, and throw a moving blanket over the top. Slightly muffle the beater head and use a danmar pad. Mike about 3 inches from the head (proximity effect is key to whack and thump). I know this is the way that all the big punk and hardcore bands do it these days. It might work for you.

 

[jmorris]

DM4/5

ASI9,Try an alesis DM 4 OR DM 5 DRUM MACHIME.There cheap.You Can get triggers for them. I 'M simple but I can use one,JIM

 

[John Sayers]

What shailat said as usual - just one extra - if you are going to use a D4/5 record the midi out of the D4 so you can edit it in a sequencer and get rid of the miss hits etc. also you can time shift it forward to make up for the trigger delay.

Cheers
John

 

[asi9]

had to bring this thread back....

I made this post a long time ago, and wanted to revive it because I finally figured out the "secret" to getting that sound that I mentioned... we had gotten really close before, but there was just something not quite right.

Anyway, I finally achieved that "click" sound without resorting to midi kick drum samples by eq'ing a kick drum mic'ed really close to the head inside it this way:

Use a parametric eq, then do a very, very radical boosting of the 3,000hz-ish area with a very narrow Q.... it should look more like a "spike" than a boost, resembling this picture attached.

I found it more convient to simply copy the kick drum, eq one of them this way (because it takes some VERY radical eq'ing), and eq the other for the punch (I used some multiband compression for that), cutting most of the upper stuff. Then you just mix the two together.

I like this sound because it's very crisp, yet punchy.... and you can really hear/feel it when the drummer does double bass things. Cuts right through the mix, too. Great for metal.

Those sound files are broken links now, but the "sound" I'm talking about can be heard on Korn's "Follow the Leader", Sevendust's "Home" album, and Kittie's album, and Godsmack's first album. If anyone is interested, I can make clips of the sounds before processing, and clips after processing, then mixed together, etc.

 

[Wallycleaver]

This one time, 9 years ago, I posted the question about.......

Thread from the dead man!