Music Industry Advice and Question

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ThePianoMan32

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Hey Everyone!

I am new to this forum and had a few questions that I hope some of you could help me answer. I have been a musician all of my life and have gone to school for music performance but now also find myself very interested in the other studio and live sound side of the music industry. I have enrolled in classes about live sound and also studio recording and have a few questions.

I was wondering if any of the more experienced live sound people in this forum would be willing to share how they made it into the industry and any tips that they would suggest for someone who is new and trying to gain experience. Also, how would you say you made your money more? Working for sound and audio companies or being self employed and creating your own path with your own clients.

Also one final question, is there a small (8-12 channel) but good quality mixing board that might suit a beginner working with both live sound mixing and studio sound?

Thanks in advance for any answers or advice that you can provide!
 
There are not enough good FOH sound guys out there. If you go to a bar, the sound guy would probably be the drummer's brother or the bar manager's nephew. :rolleyes: or worse, no sound guy and the band mixes from the stage. :mad:

Go around to different live music venues and compare which ones sound good and which don't. When you find one that sounds good, stop into the booth and talk with the sound guy during a break. Might help if you bring him a beer. Once you get him in a conversation, he might be willing to share his thoughts.

Don't expect to make any money from it. When I did sound in the 90's, I got a cut of the band's money. Sometimes it would cover the gas I used to get to the gig. But we did have one person here at HR who was very successful in the sound reinforcement business. Enough so that he bought his own airplane, so it's possible. (Haven't seen Henry in a while)
 
Really, the best way to get big, is to start small. I know that sounds dim, but it's true. IF you can find a band that you believe in, get your foot in their door and use your talents to push them to the next level. When they play local clubs and gigs, do the sound. IF/When they get into bigger places, you may be pushed aside and the "main act"'s PA guy may do the sound. Just smile and stand there watching what he does right (and what he does wrong) and learn. If the band has a backbone, it won't take long before they insist that you do their sound in those situations (because you make them sound better...and trust me, you will). IF/When they are headlining, you'll be the guy.
There's lots of other avenues that can lead you to success in the industry, but there's something called "paying your dues" that even Henry did for years...
 
Unfortunately, most of the people who do this for a living started before the music industry changed and all the money went away. Yes, every venue needs a sound guy, but these are weekend warrior jobs that will get you an extra $150 a weekend, as long as you want to give up your weekends.

One of the ways to get into it would be to get a job with a corporate AV company. You can learn and work your way up to an A1 and move on to greener pastures from there.
 
The club where I was running an open mic was looking for a FOH man for Fridays and Saturdays, asked me if I would do it, if I knew someone who would. So I asked what the pay was. So they started saying, oh, its easy, just set the levels once the band plugs in, and you can just hang around for the night (uh uh). Finally they told me $40 a night. 7-8 load in and set up, sound check at 8, bands play from 9-1. Oh, great, $8 an hour. Wait, isn't minimum wage $8.50?
 
Yup. Being the house sound guy at a local bar doesn't pay well. It's an extra money gig, which is why a lot of those guys aren't very good.

Also, there isn't any upward mobility with a job like that. There is no place to go in the organization AND there is no respect for that position in the industry, so it isn't even a resume builder.
 
mjbphotos said:
The club where I was running an open mic was looking for a FOH man for Fridays and Saturdays, asked me if I would do it, if I knew someone who would. So I asked what the pay was. So they started saying, oh, its easy, just set the levels once the band plugs in, and you can just hang around for the night (uh uh). Finally they told me $40 a night. 7-8 load in and set up, sound check at 8, bands play from 9-1. Oh, great, $8 an hour. Wait, isn't minimum wage $8.50?
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Yup, this story sums it up nicely.

I will go on to say, I was mixing for two bands at the time. The first one was with friends for fun. We eventually got a weekly gig on 6th street here in Austin and it paid okay. I got enough from that for beer money each week. But it came with a lot of stress. The other gig was for a corporate band at the company I worked for. The nice thing about that was it was always during working hours, so I got paid my usual salary. Noice. And it was an easy gig.
 
One of the reasons I stopped doing live sound, except on rare occasions where I wanted to, was this, "If you go to a bar, the sound guy would probably be the drummer's brother or the bar manager's nephew." Because the they would probably mix for free beer, everyone expected me to mix for free beer even though I did know what I was doing. I was trying to make a living.

At most live gigs I go to at my local bars I just cringe at what sound is coming out of the PA while the operator (I use that term loosely) is talking to their friends and drinking their beer.

Alan.
 
Also, look into the skill set that you'll need for this. It wouldn't hurt to have a strong background in electronics troubleshooting and repair. Seriously. Then, you want ears that can spot an errant frequency coming up and react to it before it becomes a screaming howl that requires the mains to be pulled down. Now add a really healthy dose of mathematics to figure out phase cancellation issues in large venues (where you place those speakers in an arena is not something you guess and reset a half dozen times), or to figure out wavelengths vs the dimensions of a room so you know how to react to the room without guesswork...etc. As well, when you're beginning your trek down this road, it doesn't hurt to have a very strong back and body...there's always something that needs lifted/moved. Spatial dynamics skill to figure the most efficient way to fit 900 cubic feet of loose gear into a 8x14x7' trailer (I always thought we added gear after each gig...how in the world did we fit all that in there on the way in). The list goes on a bit, but those are some of the important bits. The really important part, you need a PHD in Psychology...dealing with 4-6 immature adults with huge egos who think they know how to do your job better than you is never a lot of fun. :)
 
witzendoz said:
At most live gigs I go to at my local bars I just cringe at what sound is coming out of the PA while the operator (I use that term loosely) is talking to their friends and drinking their beer.

Alan.
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Background:
Every year in Harvard Square (Cambridge, MA) there is a big 'May Fair' outdoors party. Streets are closed off, they have 3 music stages, tons of street vendors, etc. Thousands of people attend (it's free). The bands and soloists all play for free, but the people supplying the backline and running FOH are all paid.

A couple of years ago I was in front of the main stage when a band I wanted to hear started. The backing singers' (all players) mics were all off in the first song! I went up to the FOH guy when the song ended - the board was set up at the side of the stage - where the guy was chatting it up with some girl, not even paying attention, and shouted to him, that the BU mics were off. He gave me this 'FU' look, but then during the next song adjusted them. :rolleyes:
Later at a side stage set up -parking lot, tent, no platform - another band I wanted to hear started and the FOH guy had an iPad controller and was walking around listening. It was eclectic band with one guy switching between bouzouki, acoustic guitar and banjo, an electric guitarist, bass and drums. As he came near me I said 'the acoustic guitar is too low in the mix'. He holds out the iPad and says "you want to do this". I could have said all sorts of things like 'yeah, give me your pay, and I will', or 'just trying to help', but knew I was dealing with an asswipe, so walked away. He never did get the sound right.
 
The first guy was an as swipe. The guy with the iPad was trying to mix some goofy eclectic stuff that he had probably never heard before and you were probably the 4th guy to give his opinion about the mix.

That's another reason I hate doing live sound in a venue where people can get to me. Everyone has an opinion and thinks they are helping, but you are busily trying to figure out why you lost signal from the floor Tom and missed some cue from some song you've never heard before.

If the band or the band's audience demand a flawless performance from the sound guy, they need to hire their own sound guy that knows what's coming next, or shut the fuck up want watch the show.
 
Best way to end up with a million dollars after a year of mixing bands is to start with two million dollars.
 
Farview said:
The first guy was an as swipe. The guy with the iPad was trying to mix some goofy eclectic stuff that he had probably never heard before and you were probably the 4th guy to give his opinion about the mix.
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No, this was the first song of the set, no one else had talked to the guy - I was watching and listening. Regardless, he could just as easily have said 'thanks' or 'working on it'. We only stuck around for a couple of songs because this guy couldn't mix the music worth a damn, it sounded terrible. Not talking about 'boost the lead guitar NOW for the lead' stuff, just get a decent blend - 2 miked amps, one DIed instrument, 1 vocal mic and 2 overheads on the drums ...
 
mjbphotos said:
No, this was the first song of the set, no one else had talked to the guy - I was watching and listening. Regardless, he could just as easily have said 'thanks' or 'working on it'. We only stuck around for a couple of songs because this guy couldn't mix the music worth a damn, it sounded terrible. Not talking about 'boost the lead guitar NOW for the lead' stuff, just get a decent blend - 2 miked amps, one DIed instrument, 1 vocal mic and 2 overheads on the drums ...
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Like I said, it's easy to have an opinion from the cheap seats. Especially on the first song. He's probably never heard these guys before, all the instruments probably need eq, compression, etc... and while he's attempting to get his bearings, figure out what needs what and poking around in his ipad to get it done, someone from the peanut gallery walks up and starts trying to 'help'.

I don't know if the guy just sucked at what he was doing or not. But chances are, with the response he gave you, he was being frustrated by something. (ipad not responding, goofball musician changed mic position to someplace that sounds like ass, di clipping, people walking up telling him he isn't doing his job up to that person's high standards, etc...) You have absolutely no idea what he was dealing with and every moment he is paying attention to you and your feelings about how well he's doing, is time he is not listening to what's coming out of the PA system and fixing the very thing you're complaining about.
 
I've had good conversations with bar/club soundpeople, but fantastic conversations with the ones that work at theaters (both large and small). I feel like they get to solve deeper problems more often because of the variety of forces that are on stage (acting, singing, bands, all three of those things, public address, etc.).
 
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