Multitracking from mixer?

[Ryan Griffith]

Greetings,

I've got some experience recording and running live sound, but I'm very new at computer recording & mixing. So here's my question: is it possible to record multiple tracks from a powered mixer into my computer with either RCA to 3.5mm or with a USB interface with 2 inputs? I'm not sure if I can multitrack this way, or if I can only record to stereo 2-track.

To elucidate, I'd like to record a small band at church, and use the mixer we usually use for amplification. I can now run RCA to 3.5mm from the mixer's tape out. I don't have an interface yet, but when I do get one, I don't plan on getting anything with more than 2 inputs at this point. I can probably get a good mix & record to stereo, but I'm curious as to if my DAW (Reaper) will see the multiple inputs from the mixer or not.

Hope my question makes sense, and thanks!

regards,
Ryan Griffith

 

[pandamonk]

Greetings,

I've got some experience recording and running live sound, but I'm very new at computer recording & mixing. So here's my question: is it possible to record multiple tracks from a powered mixer into my computer with either RCA to 3.5mm or with a USB interface with 2 inputs? I'm not sure if I can multitrack this way, or if I can only record to stereo 2-track.

To elucidate, I'd like to record a small band at church, and use the mixer we usually use for amplification. I can now run RCA to 3.5mm from the mixer's tape out. I don't have an interface yet, but when I do get one, I don't plan on getting anything with more than 2 inputs at this point. I can probably get a good mix & record to stereo, but I'm curious as to if my DAW (Reaper) will see the multiple inputs from the mixer or not.

Hope my question makes sense, and thanks!

regards,
Ryan Griffith

You can only record 2 tracks simultaneously.

 

[gcapel]

If each channel has inserts or direct outs then you can use them to feed your interface letting you isolate each channel. It sounds like your going to need at least 8 channels of conversion if not more to do this.

you could use the stereo tape out but your getting whats mixed for the house and is going to be useless to record.

One idea you may want to consider, is to put a stereo pair of LDC mics in the back of the house to capture the room. Combining this with the multi-tracking each channel from the board is the best case senerio.

 

[TetraFish]

I do this exact same thing using a mixer for the live sound and use the pre fader inserts to connect to my Prsonus FireStudio which has 8 inputs. I had to modify the cable to make it work but it was a fairly minor operation.

Does your mixer have inserts on each channel?


If you only want to record the mix I don't see any reason you cant use the record outs? I've tried this though and you may be suprised how different the mix will sound after you recorded it probably nothing like it sounds in the PA.

 

[TetraFish]

Damn, either I'm slow or you guys are quik. When I started typing my reply no one else had posted yet.

 

[Ryan Griffith]

Thanks for the info & suggestions, I appreciate them! I had a feeling that running 2 outs from the mixer, whether into an interface or tape out, would only allow for 2 tracks, but I figured I'd ask.

Regarding this, I was actually thinking of using the mixer specifically to record sometime, and not during a normal performance. I'd mix the inputs with headphones specifically for a good recording, not for the EQ of the room (which usually sucks).

 

[Ryan Griffith]

Does your mixer have inserts on each channel?

It's a Carvin 12-channel powered mixer, so it's got XLR & line inputs for each channel. I figured that getting my computer to see each individual input wasn't likely if I'm doing stereo outs or a 2-input USB interface, but I also figured it was worth asking!

 

[TetraFish]

It's a Carvin 12-channel powered mixer, so it's got XLR & line inputs for each channel. I figured that getting my computer to see each individual input wasn't likely if I'm doing stereo outs or a 2-input USB interface, but I also figured it was worth asking!

Does it have a second 1/4" plug on each channel labeled "insert"?

Or how about a model number?

 

[Ryan Griffith]

Does it have a second 1/4" plug on each channel labeled "insert"?

Or how about a model number?

It's a Carvin RX1200. The latest variant is here.

 

[moresound]

Hey Ryan .....why not get a Zoom H4n!
With this unit you can record 4 tracks simultaneously in a few different configurations, your choice, 2 lines from the console and 2 room microphones or 4 room microphones etc. etc.--- then down load it to your computer and mix it with in reaper. I've found this to be a great way to achieve a live recording with sterling results.

 

[TetraFish]

Just by looking at the pictures it looks like the little grey button beside the 1/4" channel inputs toggles that from an input to an insert so that would one way to get the individual channels out to a daw. Of course the input would have to use the XLR in that case. One thing to beware of is that when you plug a cable into the insert it breaks the signal chain because it's expecting to send on tip and return with FX on the sleeve or vise versa. I had to modify my cable by soldering the sleeve and tip together. Which basically makes it so you just use the send.

Another way.....
If you only want to do 1 or 2 instruments you might be better off to use the aux channels. So for the instrument you want to record crank the aux 1 or aux 2 knob and that will send it to the two outs. I think you could probably use the fx sends too so you could record 4 separate channels at the same time.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[oretez]

lots of ways to break FOH mix into individual or group sends even with the mixer he has

but as he currently lacks analog to digital conversion for then two channels he would have to pick up an interface for the number of discrete simultaneous tracks he needs to record

more or less rendering mixer capabilities moot

now if during his proposed separate record only sessions he is able to track a single voice(instrument) at a time then type of output board offers might become of practical interest

I do a fair amount of live recording these days and within limits you can get some reasonable results with a stereo pair from mixer to recorder (even in most limited situations I tend to prefer to have at least 4 tracks available but at entry level affordable 4 trk systems tended to be rare . . . the price of the Zoom r16 more or less broke that market wide open). But as one poster indicated the tape out of a mix optimized for a specific, not particularly optimal room will not provide a particularly accurate (or even attractive) representation of the actual live performance. But it really depends on what the goals are as to whether a tape out to computers on board sound card is an acceptable option.

And the cost of upgrading hardware (from the powered mixer to on board sound card, for far more flexible options in recording can be remarkably small (used the Zoom R16's are going for $300 (and not necessarily recommending that, and usual disclaimers apply, not connection with Zoom, etc.)).

 

[pandamonk]

Hey Ryan .....why not get a Zoom H4n!
With this unit you can record 4 tracks simultaneously in a few different configurations, your choice, 2 lines from the console and 2 room microphones or 4 room microphones etc. etc.--- then down load it to your computer and mix it with in reaper. I've found this to be a great way to achieve a live recording with sterling results.

Why not just record direct to the computer and not bother with the Zoom?

You could decent results recording each instrument separately with your setup as it is, as long as you are happy with only 2 drum tracks. You could either hope for a good mix on the fly for drums or, at the expense of stereo image, pan snare and kick one way and an overhead the other. Then clever use of gating/EQ could help separate kick and snare to give 3 drum tracks for mixing...

 

[Ryan Griffith]

I'd like to get a USB interface before I do this, but I'm not sure it'll make it any more possible for my computer to see separate tracks from the mixer I guess. I'm thinking of getting something along the lines of a Presonus AudioBox or something with similar specs. With only 2 inputs, my options may still be limited for live multitracking, but I can live with it... I can't afford a Firewire interface with a bazillion inputs right now!

Another thing I'm thinking of doing is recording the instruments live with a scratch vocal track. The instruments would be:

• piano, mic'ed by an SM57 or 58
• a drumset, mic'ed by 1 or 2 overhead dynamics (Shure SM57, 58 or a Carvin 58 clone),
• electric bass, run through a SansAmp VT Bass pedal, then DI to the mixer (I'm the bassist, so I know gadgets I'll use!)
• acoustic guitar w/onboard pickup & preamp, direct to the mixer,
• electric guitar, DI to the mixer,
• maybe a sax and/or trumpet, but I could record them separately.

After the instruments are recorded, I could always have a 2nd session to record the vocal tracks. I especially want the vocal tracks separately because one of the singers just plain sucks, and I want to keep her reeeeeally low in the mix, and maybe even run some robust pitch correction on her track. Recording her into a live-to-2-track would just kill the whole project (she couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, seriously.)

So how does that sound? A little more doable than trying to multitrack with 2 inputs?

Also, regarding the Zoom H4, I already have the H2, which I love! I'll probably stick with a 2X2 USB interface for now... I can't justify spending the dough on the H4, no matter how awesome it is!

 

[TetraFish]

Yeah that sounds like a fine idea. Nothing wrong with doing a few runs so you can get all the instruments on separate tracks.

Also, I feel your pain with the singer. I can't carry a tune either but at least I know it.

 

[Ryan Griffith]

Yeah that sounds like a fine idea. Nothing wrong with doing a few runs so you can get all the instruments on separate tracks.

Also, I feel your pain with the singer. I can't carry a tune either but at least I know it.

Yeah, you won't catch me singing much harmony, although I can at least sing in tune, even if I don't sound all that pretty doing so! I'd ideally like to catch almost all the instruments in one session if I can. I guess I'm worried that the drums will bleed into the piano mic, but the drummer is a very talented guy who can play with (get this!) dynamics. Maybe I can set up some sort of cheap isolation to minimize bleed. On the other side of the coin, a little bleed wouldn't bother me in that instance. At the end of the day, I really have to keep the bad singer isolated on her own track so I can try to do something to mitigate it. (then again, I've heard it said that you can't polish a turd...)

 

[TetraFish]

Well you're gonna polish it a bit then bury it so it doesn't smell so bad.

 

[Ryan Griffith]

You got it.. that's the idear!

 

[moresound]

Also, regarding the Zoom H4, I already have the H2, which I love! I'll probably stick with a 2X2 USB interface for now... I can't justify spending the dough on the H4, no matter how awesome it is!

Fare enough. But the H4n is head and shoulders above the H2.

Have fun.