Multitrack Recording... I feel stupid.

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LimbCrucifix

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I just got my Tascam 488 MKII yesterday, and started playing around with it. I already had an idea of what I was doing (or so I thought). My plan was to start by recording a basic riff on track 1, going to track 2 and recording a harmony over it. Recorded the riff on track 1 no problem. Rewound the tape, took track 1 off record-ready, moved the guitar cable to the track 2 input, put track 2 on record-ready, levels and everything seemed fine. Started recording, everything seemed ok until i rewound the tape and played it back, no trace of track 2! It played back as if I hadn't recorded anything on track 2. I haven't got a clue what I did wrong, and I feel retarded needing help with something so basic, but it's quite frustrating! Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Try giving the heads a demagnetizing and a good isopropyl cleaning. I have the 488 mk 1 and once in a while, that has happened to me. I've no idea why. Other times I'll record and the sound levels are 100 % but on playback, there's hardly any sound. It's worth getting it serviced once a year or every two years, depending on your regularity of usage.
 
Thanks, I'll give it a try. But could someone please give me a step by step walkthrough of the recording process? I just want to make sure I'm not making some stupid mistake.
 
It's been a really long time since I've recorded on a 488.

I know you should be able to keep your guitar in input 1, but still record onto track 2. You would pan the channel all the way to the right and assign it to 1-2 (as a pose to 3-4, 5-6, or 7-8). If the channel were panned all the way to the left, then it would record to track 1.

See if you can get the other tracks working - maybe just track 2 is funky on that machine.

I wouldn't demag it unless you know what you're doing -- too much risk for harm. Stick with cleaning the heads and plastic parts for now with alcohol. Don't use the alcohol on the rubber parts, they'll dry out.

-MD
 
It's acceptable....

It's acceptable and fairly easy at this stage to leave the Pan control dead center, so as to feed the L-buss and R-buss (odd/even- groups) equally.

I don't have all my HDD's hooked to this 'puter at the moment, but there is a download of the 488mkII manual floating around. Maybe someone could post it.

Likewise, as MD said, you have to come to grips that the 2nd channel strip isn't the "track 2 input". With a mixer/tape system like this, you may "buss" route any input to any track by manipulating the "Group" buttons and "Pan" controls.

Left-pan routes mixer inputs to odd groups 1 and 3.
Right-pan routes mixer inputs to even groups 2 and 4.
Mixer Group 1 feeds tape tracks 1 and 5.
Mixer Group 2 feeds tape tracks 2 and 6.
Mixer Group 3 feeds tape tracks 3 and 7.
Mixer Group 4 feeds tape tracks 4 and 8.

(Buss and Group are terms used interchangeably)

In practical terms, this means you can set up your inputs on mixer channel strips and route the signals to different tape tracks as necessary by using the knobs and buttons. No repatching necessary. Most Tascam recording mixers will follow this logic, from small to large systems.:eek:;)
 
I don't have all my HDD's hooked to this 'puter at the moment, but there is a download of the 488mkII manual floating around. Maybe someone could post it.

That would be greatly appreciated! I have a pdf of it, but it's missing alot of pages, obviously some important ones for me!

Thanks for your help, I'll try to get my head around all that tomorrow and try it again.

Iain
 
Ok, I've managed to record on track 5 over track 1, which wasn't too bad other than track 5 being a bit quiet. But then I went back to the start to do it again with a different riff, recorded on both tracks again. Track 1 was fine, but then when track 5 came in I heard both the harmony I had just recorded AND the harmony I had recorded previously... I figured by going back to the start and recording on track 5 again I was recording over what I had done previously. I guess not..?
 
Ok, I've managed to record on track 5 over track 1, which wasn't too bad other than track 5 being a bit quiet. But then I went back to the start to do it again with a different riff, recorded on both tracks again. Track 1 was fine, but then when track 5 came in I heard both the harmony I had just recorded AND the harmony I had recorded previously... I figured by going back to the start and recording on track 5 again I was recording over what I had done previously. I guess not..?
Are you saying that on track 5 you could hear two previously recorded pieces ? That is, like one was superimposed over the other ?
 
I feel stupid

I feel retarded needing help with something so basic, but it's quite frustrating! Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
You shouldn't feel that way though I understand it having felt that way myself in the past. Just remember that every question is easy......if you know the answers ! And the reason we ask questions is because......













































we don't know those answers !
 
Are you saying that on track 5 you could hear two previously recorded pieces ? That is, like one was superimposed over the other ?
Yeah exactly. I actually found a full manual pdf for the original 488. I followed the instructions carefully for dubbing track 2 over track 1, and still hear nothing from track 2 when I play it back.
 
Yeah exactly. I actually found a full manual pdf for the original 488. I followed the instructions carefully for dubbing track 2 over track 1, and still hear nothing from track 2 when I play it back.
Actually, that's a kind of great effect {or at least, it could be}, if somewhat unwanted !! I have had situations where I've wiped the track clean and can hear a faint ghost of what was there before wiping.
I think maybe you have a defective track 2. If you can get the machine serviced, then that would be the thing to do. Is it brand new ?
It doesn't sound as if you're doing anything wrong in your recording steps.
I remember back in early '93 when I'd had my 488 only for about two or three months, I did a session with some kids that I did a project with and one of them was a flute player. On the tune we did, I got her to do a part written, part improvised bit and the first take was great. I could see the bars lighting up to where I wanted them, but when we listened to it, it was really quiet, only one or two bars. So I got her to do it again. Same thing happened. In the end, I got her to record two passes and they were 'adequate', nowhere near as inspiring as the original take. I blended them to get the volume. It was my track 1 that was up the creek. Anyway, I got it looked at soon after and when it came back, it was perfect. Didn't have that particular hassle for years after and when it cropped up, a cleaning did the biz. I've been rabid about cleaning from day one - I clean up before each session and after each session and sometimes in the middle of a long session.
The Maddog said not to degmagnetize unless you know what you're doing. Good advice, but one should learn what to do. It's not hard at all. You don't need to turn the 488 on, press the on button on the degausser from about a foot away and bring it very slowly to the heads and work the tip around without actually touching the heads if you can. It doesn't matter if you touch it slightly. Withdraw very slowly with the on button still on and when you're a foot or so away, then switch it off. As an aside, I've been doing this for over 15 years. But I'm not technical and I haven't got a clue what demagnetizing does or whether it's any good !:D All I know is that I've never had any head hassles since I started using a degausser.
As for not using isopropyl on the rubber pinch roller, this is the standard advice given and I'm not going to contradict it because I'm not qualified in any way to do so and I don't want to give lousy or dangerous advice. But I've been using it on the rubber roller since 1993 and I've never had any problem with it. I've done {and continue to do} hundreds of sessions with the 488.
 
Thanks alot for your help grim! I'm going to clean the heads tomorrow and see if that helps. The machine is definitely not brand new, I'm not sure how old it is. I bought it on eBay from someone who had in turn bought it on eBay! He did state that it was in full working order.
When playing back what I had recorded, I turned the track 1 volume down to 0, and track 2 volume as high as possible, and I could still hear track 1 for some reason, still with no trace of track 2. What do I do if I want to just skip track 2 and use the the rest of the tracks? Should they be panned in a certain way? Before I got the Tascam I never realised tracks could bleed into eachother if they're not panned correctly.
 
Thanks alot for your help grim! I'm going to clean the heads tomorrow and see if that helps. The machine is definitely not brand new, I'm not sure how old it is. I bought it on eBay from someone who had in turn bought it on eBay! He did state that it was in full working order.
When playing back what I had recorded, I turned the track 1 volume down to 0, and track 2 volume as high as possible, and I could still hear track 1 for some reason, still with no trace of track 2. What do I do if I want to just skip track 2 and use the the rest of the tracks? Should they be panned in a certain way? Before I got the Tascam I never realised tracks could bleed into eachother if they're not panned correctly.
Earlier in the thread, A reel person pretty much ran it down how it works. Whichever input you plug your instrument into, you should be able to send the signal to any one of the 8 tracks. So for example, if your guitar is plugged into input 4 but you want to record onto track 2 just turn the input assign on strip 4 to "mix", pan the pan to even, hit the assign button to 1/l-2/r, stick the fader up to wherever and do the same with the master fader {the group 1+2 one}. To hear it, press group 2 on the monitor group strip and turn up the phones to where it's comfortable. If you've already recorded stuff and you're just listening then press the "cue" button and turn whichever knobs correspond to the track you want to hear. You can record on any track from any input. The Mk1 only lets me use a mic via input 1 + 2 {they have a trim knob} but of course can get to any track.

A thought just struck me. In your original question, you said that when you'd recorded the first riff, you plugged the guitar cable into input 2 and everything seemed fine. Did you turn the pan knob to even ? I can recall times when I've recorded a stunning pass :D of a really difficult piece and wound back proudly to hear it only to discover that I hadn't panned it to the odd or even so it never came out !
You can actually leave the pan knob dead centre and it should still record just the same. But I've gotten into the habit of panning odd or even {the odd mind lapse, notwithstanding :)} as I just don't want to take the chance. Sometimes, I can hear some bleed, especially when I'm using effects but with a noise reduction unit {do they still make those ? I bought mine S/H in 1994}, that takes care of that.
If it's possible to have your 488 serviced, I would go that route. I think the 488 is a great little machine {and I presume the Mk2 is even better}. Wait till you get into backwards recording !!
 
Panic over (I think)! After another session of trying to figure it out, I managed to record on the other tracks (apart from track 2) with no problems. It was all in the panning! I think you were right grim, track 2 must be defective. But I know now that it's not the end of the world. Originally I had thought that since 1 and 2 were the only tracks with XLR inputs, 1 and 2 would be the only tracks I could use the mic with, so I was worried I had lost one of them! I messaged the guy I bought it from asking if he'd had any trouble with track 2 before, he said he hadn't but was very generous in offering a 30 - 40% refund to get it repaired! I'll probably look into getting it repaired soon, but for now I'm very pleased I got it doing what I want it to do. Just to make sure - I had originally panned the tracks like this - 1L 2R 3L 4R 5L 6R 7L 8R ; since I'm skipping track 2 and recording the second guitar on track 3, should track 3 be panned to the right while recording? Or should it be panned to the left while recording, then panned to the right for playback... does it matter?

Again, thanks alot grim.
 
Just to make sure - I had originally panned the tracks like this - 1L 2R 3L 4R 5L 6R 7L 8R ; since I'm skipping track 2 and recording the second guitar on track 3, should track 3 be panned to the right while recording? Or should it be panned to the left while recording, then panned to the right for playback... does it matter?

Again, thanks alot grim.
No, you've got it right there. Anything going on tracks 1,3,5 or 7, pan left {ie odd} and anything going on 2,4,6 or 8, pan right {ie even}. On playback {if you go through the mixer} just pan as you like. If you listen through the cue, everything is centre panned anyway.
Just as an experiment, try and do a bounce of anything you've recorded on any of the other tracks onto track two and see what happens.
I'm glad it's working out for you.
 
Hi again

I've been recording for a bit on the first 4 tracks with no problems, until today when I went to record harmony vocals on track 5. Sounded fine, recorded, played it back and it was really quiet. I figured it was because track 5 doesn't have an internal preamp, so I turned up the gain on my external preamp and recorded again. This time it was still a bit quiet, so I turned up the volume a bit and it sounded... shit. Quite distorted and hissy. What's the problem? It sounds fine when monitoring before recording, but on playback its really quiet and sounds terrible. I've tried recording to track 5 through other channels but get the same result. Help!
 
It sounds like your track 5 is playing up now. I don't really know what to suggest other than the usual eliminators - demagnetize, headclean and if all else fails, a service. I looked up a company in your neck of the woods called Fixtronix that might be able to give you some help. Finding repair people with portastudio knowledge is a little harder than in previous years. You could also try contacting TEAC {the Tascam parent company, or at least, they used to be}.
 
Yo crucifix! Welcome to the world of analog. I don't know much about it, because all my analog experience is with old reel to reels, but-

Remember that we are talking about a physical rearrangement of some iron oxide molecules, not X's and O's. Tracks one and two are *physically adjacent* on the iron oxide runway. That's *real* track bleed, not just some electronic artifact. If the tracks don't get physically close to each other, with a blank track in between, bleed is reduced. There is always some track bleed, but if your heads are out of whack or dirty, it can be made much worse. I agree with giving it a good cleaning. Again, it's not a computer. It has many moving parts. So how do you like the real world so far?-Richie
 
Thanks guys. I'll look into getting it looked at professionally soon, can't afford it right now. It seems at the moment that track 2 is completely gone, and 5 and 6 are on the way out! 7 and 8 are fine, recorded some harmonies on them today and it turned out great! I guess I'll just make do with what I have for the moment, and continue cleaning the heads before and after each session.

@Richard, I'm loving it! Even with all the frustrating setbacks. Digital recording seems so cold and lifeless in comparison. It's great to sit at the Tascam and be creative, rather than stare at a computer screen. Thanks for the help.
 
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