Multiband Compression

  • Thread starter Thread starter AMcB
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Robert D said:
Try to educate your client about the well documented harm that the volume wars have had on the quality of recordings over the last several years. Ask them why they want to compromise their sound for a few more decibels. Tell them about listening fatigue, and that having their songs jump out louder does no good if people turn it off in a couple of minutes.
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i think i just learned first-hand about listening fatigue yesterday while mixing somethin, shit got to the point that my ear drums seemed to be throbbing and sound started to become muffled

first time that happened.....

with that said, i'm not a big fan of compression for loudness... maybe if i want something to sound a lil smoother/warmer, but not for loudness, now maybe a limiter if i wanted somethin louder, but compressing for loudness does nothin for me.....
 
AMcB said:
I have compressed it throughout the whole process.
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I didn't notice the link till now. After listening, I think that is a big part of your problem. That song has pretty big dynamic swings (by todays standards), but sound over compressed. You can hear several of the compressors pumping. Back off you track compression and slam that L2 harder.

Also, that's pretty loud. I slammed one of the songs I'm working on pretty hard with an L2, and I could barely get it as loud as yours. It was a bit clearer, but still started crapping out a bit.......
 
crosstudio said:
Why would you ever use a C4 if you've got the source material? I understand using a C4 if you've been given a mix to master, but you've got the source material. If anything needs compression you should compress that individual track (or group of tracks.. which is what i prefer to do with back vocals) instead of reaching for a C4.
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i do compress all of the indiv tracks but the still will not make the whole entire song louder. i even compress the drums and bass as one and the guitar as another. but it still could be louder.
 
Robert D said:
Try to educate your client about the well documented harm that the volume wars have had on the quality of recordings over the last several years. Ask them why they want to compromise their sound for a few more decibels. Tell them about listening fatigue, and that having their songs jump out louder does no good if people turn it off in a couple of minutes. Educate yourself about the subject so that you can present the facts clearly, without sounding like you're just making excuses for your lack of engineering skills. There are a lot of top industry people who are dead set against what they want you to do.
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And I have talked to them about this and they don't seem to care.
 
Sonixx said:
C4 is a compressor. one use is taming the bottom on guitar tracks.

AMcB, have you looked at Soniformer by Voxengo?
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+1 on Soniformer. Quite amazing for dynamics control without messing up sound quality.
 
I'm probably one of the least experienced with this stuff thats posted so far, but I think it might help to EQ the bass drum a little bit raise some of the high end maybe around 10K or so to make it have more click. What a lot of people like is that metal sounding bass drum. I think it sound pretty good how it is, but could use a little more punch.

I really like this recording overall however, good job.
 
I'd add that using multiband dynamics is a pretty complex thing. And good for some things, bad for others. It would be a good approach to experiment with it for a while before using it on anything serious.
 
AMcB said:
i do compress all of the indiv tracks but the still will not make the whole entire song louder. i even compress the drums and bass as one and the guitar as another. but it still could be louder.
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Seriously dude, I live about 30 minutes away from you and it sounds like you need a lot of help understanding some of the more simple things about recording. I'm no top notch expert but I do some pretty decent sounding stuff and know how to get things loud. If you're ever interested you can come out and watch me track and mix a song. I'll even let you sit in a get hands on with it if you want. You just seem a little confused and I like helping people, so if you're interested let me know, I'd love to have you out for a session or two.
 
Just sneakily turn up the volume before you play it back to them, that makes it louder.
 
Massive Master said:
Peaks at -20dBFS isn't an issue. Peaks at -30dBFS isn't an issue.
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Perhaps not an issue digitally speaking, but I've found that recording below -18dBFS tends to mess with the S/N ratio in my setup (mainly synths going into an Aardvark Q-10 Pro), as I tend to get some hiss which gets compounded as the tracks add up. So, I usually record between -20dBFS and -10dBFS (depending on the type of sound), which tends to give me the best results for my setup.
 
When I think of comps it's usually to add density, help "glue" things together, or control a wayward instrument or frequency. In the case of a multi-band is definitely to control a particular freq. Think of it this way, if you are compressing the fundamental freqs of an instrument differently than it's overtones or notes higher up on the instrument differently than lower notes, what are you really accomplishing?

If you want "loudness" try chaining a few different types of limiters, maybe even clipping a few quick transients if you have a good converter. Density prevents a mix from getting loud, not the other way around. Keep it as clean as possible before "distorting" it. Or better yet, find a good compromise between what the client who lusts for level wants and where it "should" be.
 
masteringhouse said:
When I think of comps it's usually to add density, help "glue" things together, or control a wayward instrument or frequency. In the case of a multi-band is definitely to control a particular freq. Think of it this way, if you are compressing the fundamental freqs of an instrument differently than it's overtones or notes higher up on the instrument differently than lower notes, what are you really accomplishing?

If you want "loudness" try chaining a few different types of limiters, maybe even clipping a few quick transients if you have a good converter. Density prevents a mix from getting loud, not the other way around. Keep it as clean as possible before "distorting" it. Or better yet, find a good compromise between what the client who lusts for level wants and where it "should" be.
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yeah thats what i do when i want loudness added, i mess with the Waves L2 or L3, i used to compress for loudness, but squashing the sound did add volume but in the process dulled things out in regards to frequency levels....

but from my more recent mixing of my tracks, i found that leaving about 3-6 dBs of headroom before the it reads at 0dBs each time i process something and then work on volume at the end of my mix actually helped me keep key frequencies as well increase the volume without clipping or random distortion so far.......... i used to think the bigger visual of the wave, the better, but last night i realized that isn't the case at all......

once i got my stereo mixdown, i applied the limiting and compression keeping the headroom at a comfortable level, and once i dithered the final mixdown and kept a Wav version and Mp3 version, they sound almost identical except for slight conversion differences in the overall "crispness"
 
I just want to admit - I have no idea how to use a multiband compressor.

I'm fine with compressors and limiters, and EQ, but multiband comps I find hard to use. Sure I know what the controls do, but not exactly sure what I'm supposed to be listening for...

So I stay well away from them personally!
 
Agent47 said:
I just want to admit - I have no idea how to use a multiband compressor.

I'm fine with compressors and limiters, and EQ, but multiband comps I find hard to use. Sure I know what the controls do, but not exactly sure what I'm supposed to be listening for...

So I stay well away from them personally!
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no expert on them either, but i just think of em as the same as traditional compressors, except they allow you to cover specific frequencies in more of the wave opposed to linear compression...
 
Yep, it's really a set of bandpass filters with the same input, followed by a set of compressors, one per band, then into a summing amp.
 
Sinistah said:
no expert on them either, but i just think of em as the same as traditional compressors, except they allow you to cover specific frequencies in more of the wave opposed to linear compression...
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Exactly, and I'd have to say I really enjoy using multibands. I use to hate them before I really understood compression but now I really like the results I get using them.
 
I have lots of people that come to me with problems about their mixes and I always seem to tell them that when running more than one compressor in series your going to play hell trying to get a natural sound

to me sounds overcompressed, the best way to get a higher volume sound is to let the high end stand out, let the mid range lack just a tad and bass and high end blasted, that'll give you a shitty loud mix
 
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