Muddy Sounding Recordings!

It sounds far away because the vocal sounds so close. It doesn't sound like it's processed with any sort of reverb or delay to put it into a real space and it's just much louder and more present sounding than the rest of the music. So turn it down some. The basic effect you're getting is of the band playing a couple rooms away with the vocalist standing right in front of you.
Bring the vocal volume down, play around with some reverb or delay to make it sound like it's happening in the same room as the rest of the music (you won't need a lot, just a very little bit to give it that sense of life), see how you feel about it then.
 
From my understanding.

Far away sound = Proximity effect or Room Acoustics. Take some time close miking instruments and getting them to sound right before actually tracking. If your room acoustics are decent my guess is that proper miking techniques could fix the problem.

Muddy = Missing low end clarity.

1. Room Acoustics - In a small room it can be hard to get an accurate low end for mix down

2. Complementary EQ - Depending on the song, you want to place the Kick above in frequency range of the Bass or vice-versa. Roll off some of the lower frequencies on the Kick and let the bass occupy most everything under 150Hz or whatever. Then cut a little of the Bass in the frequency range that the kick is occupying. To me this is the hardest part of getting any mix to sound good.
 
it doesnt really sound that bad...like The Cancers, said..vox sound way to close..glad you got it out here for poeple to listen to.
 
yea, i agree... it's really not that bad...

i think the frequencies are running over each other a bit and yea... the vox are a bit loud on some of it.

why don't you guys go to a studio in your area and ask them to record one song? you can see how it's done by a studio and take what you learn back to your home setting.

it sounds good though... you have a lot to work with there... you guys can play! also... don't fret because when you hear studio albums (especially in metal) they're edited to the nth degree.

i thought your best recording was 'torch the fields'.

oh... and i added you to myspace. :)

s
 
hey thanks everybody for all the help and feedback i really appreciate it all a lot! I'm gonna try all of your suggestions and especially try lowering the vocal track to make it fit with the rest of the mix. And about the studio idea, we all really want to try to get to one but we're all very short on money since we can't really work with school but we're definitely gonna try that as soon as we can. I also have another question though; does it sound like there is any way to get the entire band to sound right 'in your face' instead of lowering the vocals to join the band that sounds 'far away'?

and haymedic...thanks for addding us haha
 
surfingcheckers said:
hey thanks everybody for all the help and feedback i really appreciate it all a lot! I'm gonna try all of your suggestions and especially try lowering the vocal track to make it fit with the rest of the mix. And about the studio idea, we all really want to try to get to one but we're all very short on money since we can't really work with school but we're definitely gonna try that as soon as we can. I also have another question though; does it sound like there is any way to get the entire band to sound right 'in your face' instead of lowering the vocals to join the band that sounds 'far away'?

and haymedic...thanks for addding us haha
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are you using a peak limiter on the master? that might help if you don't have one on there.

s
 
Lowering the vocals to a level where they are appropriately loud in comparison to the rest of the instruments will (possibly significantly) decrease the overall level of the master track. The better balance will cause the rest of the instruments to sound closer, because you'll be able to turn the whole thing up louder. Relative level is a big part of how close or far from you an instrument sounds (not the only part, but a big one) in the mix.
Alternately, mute the vocals entirely. Now turn up the master fader until it's peaking about where it was when the vox were in there. Doesn't the rest of it sound much bigger and more in your face?
 
i did what you said about taking out the vocals and the rest of the music does sound closer, but it still is not sounding as close as i want it to. Lowering the vocal track did help a really lot though; it's definitely way closer to how i want it after doing that.

and i know you say not to use a plugin if you do not know what it is; i just wanted to clarify that i know what a limiter and a compressor are i was just asking if they both served the same purpose when mastering a track?
 
i know its hard to come up with money to go to a studio...but have you tried any local colleges?...one of the locals ones here where i live..have classes for students for audio engineering...and if you ask sometimes one of the students may bring you in for free for a class project...it gets them class credit and you free studio time
 
There are a lot of things (as suggestet by others) which can effect your mix. A good place to start is to see if the things that you are recording (Drums, Gtr. ect.) have new strings, new drum skin. Shit in shit out. Then you need to consider if your mic placement is the ideal way to mic you kit or amp. again if you find a good mic placement, you dont need to do too much in the mix. In the mixing process you need to consider if any instruments is at the same frequency area. If you have a bassdrum which is in the same area as you bass, then the mix will get muddy very fast. Dont boost two instrument at the same frequency, try to lay down the seperate instruments at thir own frequency area. Then you will soon notice that, you mix will get much more clear, and easier to listen at. Keep on praticing, thats pretty much the only key to learn to make a good mix.
 
Limiting is a type of compression. Specifically, it's compression with a very high ratio.
If, after getting your relative volume levels closer to ideal you still want this or that instrument to sound more "in your face," some sort of compression is likely the way to go. Same goes for the whole mix.
However, this thread is not the place to get good advice on what exactly you need for this mix, compression-wise, because what exactly you need is to know what a compressor does and how it will affect your sound.
You gain this knowledge by doing two things:
1) reading as many of the literally thousands of articles, threads and primers on what exactly compression is
and
2) playing around with a compressor in the mix.
I'd suggest you start on (1) first, then once you have a general idea, find an article that runs through, in a way you think you understand, what the various controls on a compressor are meant to do, and play around with one on an instrument in the mix (2) so you can get an auditory reference point for what you are reading.
And don't futz with the multiband compressor yet. It's an unnecessarily complicated tool for your needs at this point.
 
What do you have for monitors? The drum pad you're using is way overpowering. I had that problem when I was mixing with 6.5 monitors. The Bass wave is too low for the speakers to properly reproduce. This can also create problems trying to mix the low end for obvious reasons.

The Vocals and guitars sound decent enough, the bass guitars seems a little lost, and the drums need work. Heads, mic placement, EQ... start from scratch. They're very dead and lifeless.

Also, what are you recording too> DAW, All-in-One recorder, tape?
 
surfingcheckers said:
i have never used one before but i just downloaded a multi band compressor and used that on my newest recording to master. is that the same thing as a peak limiter?
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a multiband compressor is a great tool, but it is not the same thing as a peak limiter. both are compressors but what a multiband compressor does is allow you to choose frequencies that you want to compress. a good example is a de-esser. it usually compresses out the 8khtz freq. to bring down the s's in the vocal without bringing down any other frequencies.

what a peak limiter does is two things.

it sets a ceiling on the track which will not be passed in volume. (this is why it's also called a 'brick wall' limiter.) once the volume gets to a certain level it is stopped and gain reduction automatically sets in with a fast attack and release.

the other thing it does is set a 'floor' to bring up the quieter frequencies. when you bring the floor closer to the ceiling you are going to lose dynamics and squash the entire mix together but it will make it appear louder to the listener as the frequencies are closer together and filling all the spaces.

as far as 'loudness' goes... this is generally how it's done. if you want to see how it works, email me a sample of your song to haymedic@gmail.com and i'll put peak limiting on the mp3 for you and send it back. if that's what you're after, then you know that's a tool you can download and learn something about. ('torch the fields' would be a good one)

i agree with what cancer said, that it takes a long time to understand what this stuff does and how to apply it. i also agree that i would personally mix your stuff differently... but in my opinion, that's up to you how you want the levels. if you like hearing the vocal loud, do it. if you like hearing the drums loud, do it. it's all yours and up to you and eventually you'll learn more and more by just doing it. there is no right or wrong way. i think it's kinda like letting you play what you want on drums, as well. (i'm guessing you're the drummer by the mix?) it's all yours to do what you like but it's also great that you are looking for information and so open to help!

s

ps: i don't work for IKmultimedia, digidesign or warner bros. i'm just a hobbyist who would like to help if i can. :)
 
alright so i read a million articles on compression last night and i'm starting to understand what it does. I also put it on my guitar tracks and it definitely got them to where i want them to be in the mix. I think the overall loudness was definitely one of the problems when I was listening to our songs so i'll definitely look into peak limiters and see if i can figure out how to work them. today my band's recording the intro to our demo cd so i'm gonna use all the suggestions you guys have given me and hopefully i can get it to sound more how i want it! as soon as i'm finished i'll post it up here to see your guys' responses to it. Thanks for all the help once again!

And haymedic i'm actually the guitarist in the band haha
 
surfingcheckers said:
alright so i read a million articles on compression last night and i'm starting to understand what it does. I also put it on my guitar tracks and it definitely got them to where i want them to be in the mix. I think the overall loudness was definitely one of the problems when I was listening to our songs so i'll definitely look into peak limiters and see if i can figure out how to work them. today my band's recording the intro to our demo cd so i'm gonna use all the suggestions you guys have given me and hopefully i can get it to sound more how i want it! as soon as i'm finished i'll post it up here to see your guys' responses to it. Thanks for all the help once again!

And haymedic i'm actually the guitarist in the band haha
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wrong again! blast! haha

s
 
surfingcheckers said:
alright so i read a million articles on compression last night and i'm starting to understand what it does. I also put it on my guitar tracks and it definitely got them to where i want them to be in the mix.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing about compression: You have to really be careful with your makeup gain. When you flick the compressor on and off to do a/b testing, make sure the track volume is the same in both the on and off state. Otherwise, all you hear is the volume change and you don't really know if your compressor helped or hurt.
I think the overall loudness was definitely one of the problems when I was listening to our songs so i'll definitely look into peak limiters and see if i can figure out how to work them.
Click to expand...
Like I say in every thread, leave it alone. Pushing volume with a limiter always comes out sounding worse. The best-case scenario would be for it to sound the same, but louder. But that is what a volume knob is for so what's the point? Again, watch out for your make-up gain when using a limiter. Be sure to a/b with the "off" volume equal to the "on" volume to really know what is happening to your sound.
today my band's recording the intro to our demo cd so i'm gonna use all the suggestions you guys have given me and hopefully i can get it to sound more how i want it!
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Just throwing a blind suggestion out there, but whenever I see "muddy" and "sound proofed room" in the same home rec thread there is almost always a connection. Sound proofing is tricky, tricky stuff. When it goes wrong, it is a train wreck.

Try this. Play your drums/guitar/whatever in your room. Remember how it sounds. Then take down any carpets or foam hanging on the walls. Play your stuff again. Does it sound livelier? Cleaner? More interesting? If so, then record it that way. DIY soundproofing can really kill the "life" while not being robust enough to remove the "mud".
 
hey chibi nappa thanks for that post that really helped me out. the point about testing the compressor/limiter definitely helped me out because i was only increasing the volume before you said that, but now i figured out exactly what you're talking about. and we're taking down everything in the room now to see how it sounds...
 
Just throwing a blind suggestion out there, but whenever I see "muddy" and "sound proofed room" in the same home rec thread there is almost always a connection. Sound proofing is tricky, tricky stuff. When it goes wrong, it is a train wreck.
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Hell yes, and in fact that's my suspicion.. Your carpet is absorbing all highs and no lows. Anyway, what causes mud? Lows. You THINK you're helping because you can't hear that echo any more, but those lows and low mids are going right thru it, so ALL your reflections are now low.

Btw, what you did is actually acoustic treatment and not soundproofing.. Not sure what you have in your ceiling. Real soundproofing is counter-productive ao acoustic treatment, because it doesn't let sound out, so all that sound bounces around the inside of your room like millions of little audio pinballs.. What you need is bass traps in the corners. Search here or google for DIY OC-703 panels.
 
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