MR-8 vs. VF-80

[gospel]

As I said before I have ordered an MR-8 but it will not ship until 2/7. I can cancel it and pay $200 more and get a VF-80 which is in stock and will ship tomorrow. What will the VF-80 give me that is worth the $200 more? I'm not looking for prejudice because you have one or the other just some sensible opinions from those that have used one or both and have some knowledge about them and multi-track recorders. Keep in mind I am not new to pro audio or music, but I have never owned a multi-tracker in my life. Also, keep in mind I have a good computer and equipment (mics, mixer, etc.) and will be recording with pre-recorded soundtracks and 3 (at the most) vocals.

 

[PeteHalo]

Recording time measured in hours not minutes, phantom power for condenser mics, better effects, spdif input, 2-band eq + eq presets on 6 channels. But if I were you I'd still look for a second hand VF16 or VF160 in the same price range because with either one of those two you could record more than 2 tracks at once and they are far superior when it comes to connecting to extenal gear like a computer. That 2 track at once limit can be a big bottle neck when you get really creative with your gear.

[Edit] I didn't know about the $350 sale price when I wrote the above text. A used VF16 will cost a bit more.

 

[mrx]

Gospel,

It comes down to how you want to work. Are you committed to editting/mixing/mastering on a PC? The VF-80 is designed to do your complete mix onboard, and then copy the final stereo result to a PC. With the MR-8 you are more likely to move individual tracks to a PC to mix/master there.

You mentioned three vocal parts - are you recording three vocalists at once, or are you dubbing all three parts yourself?

 

[gospel]

Gospel,

It comes down to how you want to work. Are you committed to editting/mixing/mastering on a PC? The VF-80 is designed to do your complete mix onboard, and then copy the final stereo result to a PC. With the MR-8 you are more likely to move individual tracks to a PC to mix/master there.

You mentioned three vocal parts - are you recording three vocalists at once, or are you dubbing all three parts yourself?

If it is possible I would like to lay down the soundtracks on the recorder and then record 2 vocals at once, but I can also record vocals separately.
Also, I would like to primarily do my mastering on my editing, mixing, and mastering on my PC.

 

[teainthesahara]

Keep in mind I am not new to pro audio or music, but I have never owned a multi-tracker in my life. Also, keep in mind I have a good computer and equipment (mics, mixer, etc.) and will be recording with pre-recorded soundtracks and 3 (at the most) vocals.

Gospel, yup - you have outlined the most important things to take into acount when evaluating those machines; I have used the VF80, and briefly demo'd the MR8, so maybe I can help with respect to your criteria.
1) For your needs, I can almost guarantee that no matter which machine (MR8 or VF80) you get, it will be a great introduction into the world of multitracking. These boxes have developed into user friendly, 'tape-like' operative machines with plently of features that will keep you busy, and keep you learning about recording. (I've noticed that on Fostex' own website, they make reference too an advantage of the Mr8 being that you don't have to get through tons of tiny LCD menues to operate the machine: this is true compared with alot of digital multitrackers - but NOT with most other fostex machines - that's abit of a misconception....SO, i would worry about that aspect of the machines- from a begginer's perspective, they are both EASY!)

2) In my opinion, they are both machines that largely benifit, and for some uses require the assistance of a PC. The EQ abilities and 'mastering' effects on both units are a good introduction to what those features are about - but that's about it - an introduction. Your PC will allow you to expand and develop your knowledge of EQ, 'mastering', etc., equally with both units.THIS IS KEY - if the VF80 comes complete with the internal CDRW burner, for the price you quote - then both units are equal in their capability to move your WAV tracks over to the computer. As a begginer, don't be hung up if one is USB and one is a CDBurner or SCSI or whatever. As a beginner, you will have plenty of other things to learn, and such matters become negligible. If the VF80 does not come with this feature(cd burner) - then it's actual cost WILL become prohibitive....MR8 would be a better buy for your needs.

3) Gospel, does your mixer have mic inputs with phantom power? This might also be a deciding factor. Also what mics do you have or plan to get? These are all important factors that should bbe considered and will influence your choice.

4) Harddisk and memory cards: this is debatable...I don't know.....only you will be able to decide here....On some levels, it really does not matter! On others it makes a significant difference...it depends not just on how much you can record or for how long at once - but also on what your recording preferences are.....so if you haven't used a multitracker before - it's a bit of a coin toss.

T

 

[clifchamb]

Looking at the Musician's Friend website, the VF-80 DOES NOT come with the internal CDRW drive for 499.99, you would have to spend another 300.00 for the CDRW drive or just be sure that your PC has an optical input so that you can send your songs to the PC.



To be real with you about the memory of the Mr-8, the 128MB flash card will probably only give you enough room to record 3-4 tracks (2 for your stereo sound track and maybe one for your vocal part) before you have to start bouncing tracks together before you record the other 2 vocal parts. That is if you use the MR-8 alone. I reccomend that you purchase/download some software for your PC so that you can send your MR-8 tracks to the PC to mix/edit that way memory will not be a problem. You mentioned you want to use your PC anyways so this should not be a problem.



clif

 

[gospel]

Thanks guys! Unless someone comes up with something else that sways me the other way, I think I'll wait on the MR-8.

 

[mrx]

Re: Re: MR-8 vs. VF-80

THIS IS KEY - if the VF80 comes complete with the internal CDRW burner, for the price you quote - then both units are equal in their capability to move your WAV tracks over to the computer.
T

Gospel - it sounds like you are going with the MR-8, but I had to comment on the above, anyway.

Technically, yes, you can move tracks with the CD burner, but at what cost in time and energy? What gets lost in the noise about USB, is that the MR-8 drive can be popped out an stuck in any machine with card reader. We can debate the transfer times of various media, but nothing out there comes close to the speed and transparency of moving your tracks around on what amounts to a portable hard drive that's smaller than a cracker.

 

[Bigsnake00]

Who votes for this forum to split into both mr-8 and vf-16 sections so this negative b.s. will end? I've been sitting here for the last 2 weeks watching the arguments go back and forth. Ive come to the brilliant conclusion that either machine would work perfect for the needs of the musician. personally i feel that the mr-8 is a much better value in a few ways. you can argue all day long that the vf-16 will handle a larger load internaly, but with the usb i can record as many tracks as i please and yes i do think that editing on a computer is worth it. the simplicity of this unit is just amazing....and the limitations seem only to let my creative jucies flow. so please argue about somthing else!

Pete...learn to use the word "simultaneously", and if its that big of a deal to you, then why dont you buy "$450" vf-16s for us all.....im in need of some firewood!

b

 

[mrx]

It's certainly worth informing potential users of the pros and cons of different platforms, but this gotten silly. The MR-8 crowd acknowledges the benefits of Gigs of internal storgage and eight simultaneous inputs - there's no argument there. It seems the VF folks, though, are unable to recognize the astounding value of pure simplicity when it comes to music-making technology.

 

[Bigsnake00]

Well put......I guess some people are just lazy and dont appriciate the truely easy to use interface of the mr-8. maybe they use the vf-16 as an excuse for their inability to really create music...are you using all that extra crap to cover somthing up? maybe its just me but i love music in a raw form and the mr-8 allows me to do that...yet it has the capability of so much more

b

 

[mrx]

...are you using all that extra crap to cover somthing up?
b

Amen to that! One of the most under rated 'features' of the MR-8 is that it destroys the old adage "fix it in the mix". Many users have reported that the MR-8 is the first piece of equipment that actually made them better musicians and engineers.

I used to bury stuff under tons of effects and editting tricks - now, the essence of the perfomance hits me like a cold slap in the face. There's no place to hide on the MR-8!

 

[teainthesahara]

Re: Re: Re: MR-8 vs. VF-80

Gospel - it sounds like you are going with the MR-8, but I had to comment on the above, anyway.

Technically, yes, you can move tracks with the CD burner, but at what cost in time and energy? What gets lost in the noise about USB, is that the MR-8 drive can be popped out an stuck in any machine with card reader. We can debate the transfer times of various media, but nothing out there comes close to the speed and transparency of moving your tracks around on what amounts to a portable hard drive that's smaller than a cracker.

I guess we can agree to disagree here. I've said it before and i guess i'll say it one more time: transfer time/media/usb/scsi/adat - get it working, and it is a non-issue. I have never used any of those terms together with 'cost' and 'energy', because when i do a gig, my energy is on the music. It is allowed to be on the music regardless of transfer time/media/usb/scsi/adat - because those things readily sum to the negligible. We are talking differences of seconds and minutes here, which is partly why the whole debate is silly. I can understand if you are in the middle of a session with a card-reader multitracker and you fill up and want to get tracking again quick, then the usb is a no brainer. However, to compare with an entirely different set up that only requires a wav dump at the end of the session ....seconds and minutes.....you draw your own conclusions...

 

[teainthesahara]

It's certainly worth informing potential users of the pros and cons of different platforms, but this gotten silly. The MR-8 crowd acknowledges the benefits of Gigs of internal storgage and eight simultaneous inputs - there's no argument there. It seems the VF folks, though, are unable to recognize the astounding value of pure simplicity when it comes to music-making technology.

Yes indeed this has gotten silly. I currently use the VF, but please do not paint me with the same stick as you know who, alright?

 

[dyuob]

Amen to that! One of the most under rated 'features' of the MR-8 is that it destroys the old adage "fix it in the mix". Many users have reported that the MR-8 is the first piece of equipment that actually made them better musicians and engineers.

I used to bury stuff under tons of effects and editting tricks - now, the essence of the perfomance hits me like a cold slap in the face. There's no place to hide on the MR-8!

YES!!!!! That is exactly what I used to do, and i ended up with alot of junk. I am so much more proud of what I'm doing now, it is alot closer to what is in my head.
I have to really listen to what the sound is doing, to how it interacts with the other sounds that i'm recording, and, to how it sounds in the environment it is in. I can't dial in a sound with the parametric eq that i used with the Tascam 244, I have to work with sound itself, and learn what the sound really is, and what it is not. Now, i'm sure that anyone can do this with any system, but for me, the MR 8 is what works for me. I bought without taking any ones opinion into consideration, other than my own (there really wasn't a whole lot written about it in mid November) and I am very glad I bought one. Does that mean every one will love it? Not at all. When people ask me about the MR 8, I always try to give a fair and objective view of it. I do explain all the little "quirks" it has, and I let them hear what I have done with it. It then becomes their own decision, but at least they have the facts, and since I always point them over here to this board, they always have some kind of support.
Ok, I know i'm not going pro any time soon, but I am so thrilled with this machine, I have gained so much just working with it. And, I've had so much fun using it. And isn't that what we should be looking for?

 

[teainthesahara]

Amen to that! One of the most under rated 'features' of the MR-8 is that it destroys the old adage "fix it in the mix". Many users have reported that the MR-8 is the first piece of equipment that actually made them better musicians and engineers.

I used to bury stuff under tons of effects and editting tricks - now, the essence of the perfomance hits me like a cold slap in the face. There's no place to hide on the MR-8!

Ok, just what the hell. Things are getting weird....Bigsnake, Mrx, you guys think the box itself is gonna make or break you as an engineer, or effect your skill for better or worse, or efficiency, or writing/creativity? Think carefully, cause THAT is the exact logic that PeteH seems to have as well. Is that what you want to think like? Im pretty sure it's not, so be objective about the equipment and put it in its place- it does not make you do anyting! It's what you do with it..

T

 

[a12stringer]

American Music Supply has the VF80 for $699.99 with with the CD-RW burner installed, only $200 more than the unit without the burner, and far less than the Boss 1180CD.
At the same time, Musician's Friend has the VF-160 with CD burner for $999.95, which is almost the identical price for the Boss unit.

The issue is not which is better, but which unit will suit my needs, not just now but 3+ years from now since it is a major purchase.
Fostex has a well-earned reputation for making excellent products.
And as long as the music being recorded is meaningful to yourself and to those you long to share it with, it's not going to matter what technology you used to share it with.

Peace, brothers and sisters.

 

[teainthesahara]

One more then im done with this subject!

Please don't get me wrong this time.

I'm not saying the MR8 is crap or something like that but let's face it, it's a sketchpad for quickly capturing musical ideas and not a real multrirack recorder or never meant to be one. All I'm saying is that if you are looking for a multitracker you might as well save a little longer and get a real multitracker which will make your life easier and let you concentrate in recording music. Most of the posts about MR8 on this bbs deal with overcoming the technical shortcomings of MR8 and if you'd go for a real multitracker you'd been recording from the day one without having to spend your time dealing with those issues.

Now tell me this, why did you folks go for MR8 instead the VF80? It's TOC is not much more than MR8 considering it's got practically unlimited storage space comperd to the CF cards, better effects, phatom power (I believe) and it's about the same size.

Pete.
For some people, the value of a debate lies in the fact that at the end of the day, idea's have been exchanged, objectives change, perspective's change, and people learn. I am one of those i would like to think. You have argued 'well' for your viewpoint, but given the many statements you continue to make, you either think you have nothing to learn from others, or are simply not interested in doing so. Many, including myself, have posed questions in reply to your post's that you simply dont take the time to answer. Doing so would perhaps enlighten you to someone elses perspective, or to where your own perspective is lacking. You see, that is what debate is about. Not pounding forth a viewpoint until everyone see's it as you do. But instead, you by-pass all that entirely, and pop up with broken-record-player comments and responses. That pisses people off, i think, who are here to learn. You think people 'get you wrong', but does the possiblity ever enter your mind that they 'got you just right' - but you are not self-aware of how you are perceived? Listen, dont think this is a personality attack - it would be shortsighted of me to presume that over some post's - and it does take all types to make this world circle....anyways..this should be the last from me about X Vs. X.....

Peace
T

 

[clifchamb]

Ok, just what the hell. Things are getting weird....Bigsnake, Mrx, you guys think the box itself is gonna make or break you as an engineer, or effect your skill for better or worse, or efficiency, or writing/creativity? Think carefully, cause THAT is the exact logic that PeteH seems to have as well. Is that what you want to think like? Im pretty sure it's not, so be objective about the equipment and put it in its place- it does not make you do anyting! It's what you do with it..

T

Wait a minute...I think what MRX is trying to say is that the lack of EQ, effects bells and whistles on the MR-8 just simplify the whole recording/writing process, letting us just concentrate on getting things down on "tape" (huge fun factor). I have botched numerous recordings from 4 tracks to ADATS just because I messed around with the EQ too much only to find that I sounds terrible in the end. The MR-8 in it's beautiful simplicity makes it easier for me to identify what instruments,tracks etc. need "tweaking." Of course this experience and quality is possible with the VF-80 and 160 as well, but that comes along with a higher price and steeper learning curve.

Don't get upset about all discussions about what unit is better. It makes this forum interesting. I have learned so much about other fostex products from this forum. I think it is great that some one can come along to our forum and say "well, I am getting x or y, which is better?" These arguements or "discussions" if anything help people make informed purchases.

clif

 

[Bigsnake00]

Im far from PeteH....Im just saying it allows you to make the most out of what it is...therefore allowing for creativity..not hiding behind the power of a larger machine