mr 8 recording time trick

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emoshen

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i was bummed when i recieved my mr8 and found out how much time it actually had in normal mode to record..BUT... i found out that after you bounce tracks to say 5/6 or 1-6 to 7/8 that u can delete tracks 1-4 then go to song and go to delete unused and then bam you have 4 more tracks open and lots of more minutes to make the quality better...
shea
 
Also, I have found that if i make a "temp" mix on the computer, and make a mono file of it and call it something like tr01.wav, I can then use all the tracks all over again, and I can end up with as many tracks as my editing program will allow (which is 8 at the moment). Oh, and it looks like Musicians friend will have club tracks (the program i use to edit) on sale for under us$10.00. Considering I paid aeound $40.00 last year, might be a good little bargain.
 
That's the adavantage of the MR-8 - none of the other flash card recorders out there make it this easy to take advantage of a computer.
 
I have hard times trying to understand why someone would go for these memory card based trackers. Unless you're recording an acoustic instrument by the campfire in wilderness I don't really see the point of recording onto an expensive memory card that can hardly handle a couple of short songs when you can have a used full blown 16 track digital multitracker like Fostex VF16 with tens of hours of track time for the same price than a pocket size twotracker and a decent sized memorycard. These remind me of those first mp3 players that could hold an half an our of music which took ages to upload thru computer's printer port. Remember? That was like two years go.

When I record my band with my VF16 I don't have to do a single bounch or some other gimmick like that because there's plenty of tracks for tracking each instrument independently to it's own track and have a dedicated fader for each of the tracks at mixdown. And the same goes for the VF-08 too if the size is not the most important factor.
 
The VF16 lists for $1400, which is hardly the same price as a flash card recorder. How do you import/export to a DAW with the VF16 - do you need a JAZ or ZIP drive?

It's not just a "campfire in the wilderness" - with the MR-8, I drag/drop a .wav of backing from the computer, and can sit in front of the TV, building guitar parts. Drag all of that back to the PC and toss the recorder in a bag and go record vocals, etc.

If you look beyond the Fostex forum, you'll find that these recorders all offer different features, and most users use other equipment, as well. I agree that the MR-8 may not be the best solution for someone with no other gear, but as a portable front end to a DAW it can't be beat.
 
time on tracks

Actually, it seems that erasing tracks does not restore the time on the care. Apearntly you have to use the menu and "delet unused"? Is that correct?
 
That is correct - whatever you destroy gets stored to the "undo file, so recording over a track can effectively use twice as much space as you think. There should be a way to turn that off, considering the constraints of a 128MB card.
 
Originally posted by mrx
The VF16 lists for $1400, which is hardly the same price as a flash card recorder. How do you import/export to a DAW with the VF16 - do you need a JAZ or ZIP drive?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about a second hand unit here. Even the newer VF-160 costs less than $1000 at the moment and finding a used VF16 at around $600 shouldn't be too hard.

With VF16 you don't have to use gimmicks like zip-drives to transfer tracks to and from a computer if the computer has a soundcard with ADAT. Just plug in two toslink cables and set the other machine to playback and the other to record and you're done. And this works in realtime too so you can use the VF16 as a recording mixer if you prefer to track directly to computer. With MR8 you'd need a separate mixer just to input more that 2 sound sources at once. To get even a little bit of VF16/computer combo's functionality with MR8 you'll need a multichannel soundcard with multiple analog inputs and a mixer or multichannel preamp to record directly to computer and the MR8 for the portable recordings and you'd still not be able to track live drums onto separate tracks which is the real test of portability in my book. I wouldn't buy anything that failed this test as it severily limits it's usefulness as portable multitrack recorder. Note that I'm not talking about portable 2track recorder here which the MR8 really is but a portable multitrack recorder.

It's not just a "campfire in the wilderness" - with the MR-8, I drag/drop a .wav of backing from the computer, and can sit in front of the TV, building guitar parts. Drag all of that back to the PC and toss the recorder in a bag and go record vocals, etc.
Click to expand...

You can sit in front of tv with VF16 also but what if you need to record those drums? How are you going to input 4 or more mics' signal into MR8 for that pro sounding drum track and be able to mix different mics' signal later at the final mixdown. No way.

If you look beyond the Fostex forum, you'll find that these recorders all offer different features, and most users use other equipment, as well. I agree that the MR-8 may not be the best solution for someone with no other gear, but as a portable front end to a DAW it can't be beat.
Click to expand...

If you have to fit all your gear in your pockets then it's hard to beat but if you can carry a small suitcase then VF16 wins hands down in every respect.

All I'm saying is that don't be misguided by the seemingly low price of MR8 and the like. It all adds up (spare memorycards, mic pres,mixers, you namer it) pretty quick to the territory of real multitracker that offers lots of those features that you'll miss after the honeymoon with the pocket tracker is over. Mark my words.
 
Regarding drums, I stopped recording those in the mid 1980's when PCM drum machines came on the scene. I can put together a backing of drums and bass with MIDI that will sound better, be played better, and come with none of the baggage of the human alternative. And since the MR-8 generates MTC, everything is locked together - no need waste space recording keyboards and drum machines.

The ADAT card and optical cables more than eat up the cost of more CF storage, and I still don't have to sit around transfering tracks in "real time". Being able to copying a song folder between the recorder and computer is a huge step towards making this stuff transparent.

Recording eight simultaneous tracks would have been cool 15 years ago, but using modern recording techniques where a producer and computer end up playing all the instruments, I just don't see the same need to capture more than two tracks at once. One of the themes you'll see with MR-8 users is that they are recording MORE than they used to, since the equipment isn't getting in the way.
 
Ok, for my needs, th MR 8 is perfect. The price is right, I never need more than 2 inputs at a time I play washboard, and never use drums at all, my main instrument is the ukulele, and I'm not in a band, so I play every thing by myself. as far as mixing on a computer, I use a program that was meant to do extended mixes for discos (club tracks) but, for me it works. And iirc, Anderton, in his book on multi track recording makes mention that people using mixers seldom use them to their fullest, which is why starting simple and basic is always better. I don't need 16 tracks. I probably don't need 8 tracks, but for the price it was a steal. Plus, I'm learning how to edit on a computer, (ok, I learned alot during the last year doing extended mixes of other peoples stuff with club tracks,) If you need multi inputs and more than 8 tracks, then no, the MR 8 isn't for you. But that isn't to say it's not for some one else. I needed a multi track to do a song for a cd that is being put together by the ukulelegroup I belong to, and I really needed a tool that would allow me to grow as a musician. The MR 8 is working for me, at least at this point. No, it isn't perfect, but then, neither am I (lol).
I have played music for 30 years now, and have been recording off and on since 1985, and to be honest, even with it's faults, the MR 8 has been the most fun and the easiest to use, it's more about just using, as opposed to setting it up. I used to spend a lot of time setting up the Tascam 244 I had, what with pre and post fader effects, setting levels, etc. With this machine, I just plug in and set up the mic level and play. And so far, i've been very happy. But thats just me. Ah well, back to recording.
 
dyuob -

Exactly! And you made a killer point in another thread - the MR-8 forces you to think about things like "performance" and "mic placement" - you can get great results, but this machine eliminates the cop out that you can "fix it in the mix".

Steve Albini should endorse the MR-8...

Enough chit chat - I feel like tracking some guitars!
 
To MRX: I paid 140 euros (same in USD) for the terratec card and 40e for 2 toslink cables. How many gigabytes of CF cards you can get for $180? Les than one I belive and that's good for about 15 minutes of 8 tracks recrding. BTW if you have the computer playing all the backing tracks then what do you need the MR8 for? Wouldn't it be wiser to get a better soundcard instead? The way I see it with MR8 the equipment is definetly getting in the way by telling you how you must do things and not let letting you to do it the easy way or the intuitive way. I don't like to be told what I can do and how I must do by the equipment because I like to be in control of the creative process. YMMV

To dyuob: I agree with you in the starting simple thing but only when the stuff you get first is expandable. Which the MR8 is definetly not. The open architecture of VF16 is OTOH a very good
base to start building your studio around. I don't see how a recorder with such limited features like MR8 let anybody grow as a musician as you're likely to outgrow it fast and start hitting your head against it's limitations when you really get creative. BTW I have very similar history in recording as I also started with Tascam 244 in 1985 but what I learned from those days is that you can never have too much tracks and that's mainly the reason I got fed up with the whole thing for ten years until I bought my VF16 last year and discovered the tremendous power it posessed and the freedom to exlpore my ideas that it gave me.
 
to PeteHalo: I agree, if what you need is more than 8 tracks the mR8 is not the right system for you. But, there is a niche that it does fit into very nicely. As far as limitations, I really can't see any. Any system, no matter good has inherent limitations, it behooves the user to be able to see past them, and find the limits that the system actually has. I am always reminded of the fact that the Beatles recorded Sgt. Pepper on 4 track reel to reel (though they did hook 2 of them up at times).
Even the white album was done only with 8 tracks (for the most part), so I figure, until I can come up with something that can outdo those recordings, I'm very happy with what i'm using. But again, remember, that is me, any one else may need some thing else, and that's cool, like I said in another post, all I'm recording is myself, using acoustic instruments. At this point, I don't need any more than 2 inputs at a time, and 8 tracks is overkill, if I do need more, there a lot of ways around that. Also, consider, I was not about to spend a small fortune on recording equipment, and buying used recording equipment can be a pain (how many hours are really on those heads?) so, onece again I am led back to the MR8. Is it perfect? Not by a long shot, but then, neither am I, and no matter what i record with, it will always be me, and until I am out playing the system, there really is no need for anything else.
But for the record, this is a fun machine, and I am gaining quite a bit by owning it.
 
Pete,

You are correct - I could get a 512MB card that would give me about 12 minutes using all 8 tracks. Since I'm not recording songs like Yes that require an entire album side, it's not a problem. Because it's so easy to move song data to and from a PC, I really have unlimited storage. The three song demo I'm working on now can be done with the included 128MB card.

As for using the computer, I have a great, eight output, sound card, but if you've ever worked with PC recording you know that it's not always reliable. It's one thing to mix and edit on a PC, but the nature of Windows means that unexpected interrupts can often ruin good takes while recording. The MR-8 makes a nice "front end" for recording vocals and guitar, without worrying about drop outs.

What kind of music do you do? What do you play?
 
I feel that it comes down to this: If you want to record a full live band with (acoustic drums (good luck) then the MR-8 will only work with when used in conjuntion with effects processors and mixers (to set up a stereo sub mix for drum tracks for example) but then for the price of all that gear, you could buy a VF16 which would be a far better choice for THAT SITUATION.

For poeple like me who a) do overdub recording and b) play mostly alone this little unit (MR-8) rocks! I am just entering the world of digital recording and when or if I am ready to upgrade I will so at that time to something more expensive. I tend to find that with some things, the more features and whistles something I'm not comforatable with has, the less likely that I am to use it.


SO it really depends on the situation. These Units are apples and oranges.

clif
 
To ClifChamb: This is what I'm after here too. I'm not trying to say that the MR8 is crap or that you should not buy one but I fear that many people are going for it merely for the seemingly low price and the promise of 8 tracks and not for what it can really do. People new to digital multitrackers or who has a 4-tracker background tend to think that because it's a 8-tracker they can easily record their band's demo with it or build a homestudio around it.

Back in the old days the number of tracks meant the same as number of inputs and that not being the case anymore there's many peole who have bought a similar recorder just beacuse of the price and soon realized that having 2 inputs is a big limitation that cannot be overcome even by throwing more money at it.

The other big issue here that is easily overlooked by the unexperienced is the recording media which in MR-8's case is really expensive compared to those trackers that use a standard computer hard disk. For the price of a 128MB Compact flash card you can get a 40GB HD and that's about 300 times the recording space of the memory card. These are quick estimates so please don't shoot me if the prices are not excactly the same at the store you shop but it shows clearly how enormous the difference is. What's the benefits of MR-8's portability if you have to have a computer at hand to constantly backup data to unless you spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars in memory cards? Even if the backup process is easy you'd still need the computer around.

To Mrx (and others): I play the lead guitar in an purely amateur bluesrock band and we reherse far too infrequently, only 2 to 3 times a month. There's five of us, two guitars, bass, drums and vocalist who plays some harp too. As recording equipment I have the VF16 and the small VM-88 digital mixer in case I need more than 2 XLR inputs. With these I can record from up to 12 analog inputs at the same time (6 XLR inputs with phantom power, 6 unbalanced 1/4" inputs) and the 10 GB HD can hold track hours instead of minutes. In my computer I have the Terratech EWS88D card with ADAT interface and I'm running n-Track studio and some other software. I bought the VF16 last year when the price was much higher but I estimate that today you could get this all (without the computer)for around $1200 used. Excluding the mixer the amount would fall well below $1000. With this setup I can do editing and overdubs at home on computer, track real drums, bass and guitar at the same time each into it's own track in our rehersal space for easy mixdown later on at home on the computer, move recorded tracks between computer and VF 8 tracks at a time if needed, and many more things I haven't even imagined yet. So there's nothing that the MR-8 can do that the VF16 couldn't do better. Except record acoustic guitars at campfire.


My last advice to someone who's deciding between different recorders: There's no single recorder that would fit everybody's bill perfectly. Figure out your needs, not just current ones but the future ones too, before you go shopping and pick the one that can deliver it. It's like buying shoes for a 4-year-old, if you buy a pair that fits snugly now you'll soon end up buying new ones and trying to desperately find someone you can dump the old ones to.
 
Ideal for some...

Most of you are correct when you say that there are many plusses to just recording onto the computer or buying more expensive equipment. But I just thought I'd share with you why I personally decided that the MR-8 was what I needed:

1. My computer is NOT, by any means, portable. Also, my computer is in a noisy room (I live in a dorm) and it's not anywhere near a piano. With the MR-8, I can go across the street to the music practice rooms and record my piano part, then go to a drum set (a little harder to find, but that's not relevant, is it?), then go to any outside guys that I'd like to play on it. The important part is that I go to them instead of them coming to my computer.

2. I have editing equipment on my computer. Any sound that I can't get on the MR-8, I can get on my computer. The combination of the two is as good as AIR studios as far as I'm concerned.

3. I'm not in a band. I find that being in a band actually hurts my music because people generally don't play what I want them to. So, with the MR-8, I am the band. I don't need more than 2 inputs. The most I would ever be able to do at a time is sing and play something anyway. It's perfect for me.


I'm not trying to say that you people who are knocking the MR-8 are wrong, because for you, it probably does suck. But for anyone like me with some restrictions with getting to instruments or quiet rooms, the MR-8 may be just right.
 
Pete,

Clearly Jeff has showed that the MR-8 can thrive beyond the radius of a campfire!

The MR-8 lets you record away from the computer and get the same results you would get with a computer - and the data can be shared in the easiest possible fashion. The biggest advantage that the MR-8 has over the VF-16, if you must look at it in those terms, is that it gets "used". These forums are filled with stories from people who have thousands of dollars worth of equipment sitting in closets.

And I've seen jokes about built-in mics, but wasn't Michelle Shocked's first album recorded with a built-in mic on a walkman?

These things are easy, fast, convenient, portable, cheap - and to quote a Tascam owner - "fun".
 
They maybe cheap but not cheap to use if you take into account the expensive memory cards. And I do know many people who own the VF16 and they use them frequently too. And not just for capturing ideas but for semipro recording projects. For capturing ideas I recommend a portable MD that can be used also to listen music. And I bet you can find a lot of MR8s "used" after a while when people realize it's limits.
 
PeteHalo said:
They maybe cheap but not cheap to use if you take into account the expensive memory cards. And I do know many people who own the VF16 and they use them frequently too. And not just for capturing ideas but for semipro recording projects. For capturing ideas I recommend a portable MD that can be used also to listen music. And I bet you can find a lot of MR8s "used" after a while when people realize it's limits.
Click to expand...

Probaby because those people should have done their homework and purchased an VF16 anyways....


clif
 
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