MPX 500 or Reverb plug in

[jslator]

As far as being stuck with the reverb you print, just print your external reverb return, 100% wet, to a track, then use the track fader to adjust the reverb return as you mix...

There's a big difference between the major inconvenience of a plug-in that bogs down the system and the minor inconvenience of using an external effects box. In the case of Acoustic Mirror, I wasn't concerned about adjusting the level of reverb. I was annoyed that I couldn't audition the reverb and adjust parameters while playing back the tracks. I find that having to guess at paramaters, process the tracks, and then hear them is extremely frustrating, time consuming, and unproductive. Even if you find a setting you like, you then have to reprocess every time you decide to change the effect send levels of your tracks. That can absolutely kill the flow of a mixing session. I would be very interested in Acoustic Mirror, though, if Sonic Foundry ever streamlined the algorhythm to make it work well in real time.

 

[chessrock]

Even if you find a setting you like, you then have to reprocess every time you decide to change the effect send levels of your tracks.

No you don't. You just turn the volume of the wet track up or down.

That can absolutely kill the flow of a mixing session. I would be very interested in Acoustic Mirror, though, if Sonic Foundry ever streamlined the algorhythm to make it work well in real time.

Then it wouldn't sound as good. The whole tradeoff/dilemna you're faced with is do you want it to be friendlier on your processor or do you want it to sound good? If the flow of the mixing session is your number one priority, then go with the waves or similar plugin and find a setting you can live with.

 

[jslator]

No you don't. You just turn the volume of the wet track up or down.

But the wet track is a wet version of the tracks that were sent to it at their respective volume levels at the time it was processed. If I decide I just want the reverb to be very dry on a guitar track, I can't accomplish that without making it dry on all of the other tracks too.

Then it wouldn't sound as good. The whole tradeoff/dilemna you're faced with is do you want it to be friendlier on your processor or do you want it to sound good?

I want it to sound good and be easy to use. It's possible to re-code software to make it more streamlined without changing any of its functionality, particularly where use is made of the more advanced instruction sets in modern cpu's. Making it faster won't necessarily make it sound worse.

If the flow of the mixing session is your number one priority, then go with the waves or similar plugin and find a setting you can live with.

The flow of a mixing session is a very high priority to me. Anything that kills creativity by making my job difficult is bad.

I use real spaces rather than software or outboard processors as much as I can anyway. To be honest, there aren't many reverb boxes I like the sound of at any price.

 

[chessrock]

If I decide I just want the reverb to be very dry on a guitar track, I can't accomplish that without making it dry on all of the other tracks too.

I think we're probably talking about different things, here. Or at leas I hope we are. Let's say you want a higher-quality reverb on a particularly important track -- just the vocal, for instance (as an example).

Bring that track up in Sound Forge, find the verb you want, process it 100% wet, save it as a different file (like vocalreverb.wav or something).

Now bring that reverb file up in your multitrack software -- let's pretend it's Sonar. You've already got your unprocessed track up in your project, 100% dry. Now bring the fader on your vocalreverb file up slowly until you get the desired mix of wet versus dry.

Yes, it's an extra pain in the ass. No, you can't adjust the parameters as easily. But it sounds like a thousand times better than your reverb plugin. It just does, and that's the tradeoff.

I want it to sound good and be easy to use.

I hear ya. I'd also like my girlfriend to be as hot as Halle Barry, rich like Oprah, good around the house like Martha Stewart, nice like my mother . . . AND be a nymphomaniac.

Unfortunately, in life, we have to be willing to accept sacrifices.

I'll be happy, for instance, that my girlfriend IS hot like Halle and nice like mom, and I'll work around the rest.

Making it faster won't necessarily make it sound worse.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason someone obviously hasn't figured that out, or I'm sure it would have been done already. Personally, I think it's not unlike a miracle that a $1000 and under computer can do the things it already can do, music-wise. Let's not get greedy and push things. Perhaps it just isn't a profitable enough endeavor given all the piracy and what not (?) Either way, I'm happy (read: thrilled) with the options available, even given their limitations.

To be honest, there aren't many reverb boxes I like the sound of at any price.

I have to agree with you, there. Reverbs tend to date music; like you can almost spot what era a recording was made in just by the type of reverb used.

 

[pundit]

As Chessrock said you need to make 'wet only' copies of the tracks you want to process and then import them back into your mulitrack and name them appropriately.. ie..

Vox 1 verb

Solo acoustic verb

Snare verb etc..

You then just bring those verb track volumes up or down as if they are indivdual effects returns for each of the corresponding dry tracks.

BTW make sure you create stereo verbs of course.

Yes Acoustic Mirror doesn't work in real time although there is a preview function which is still a bit on the clunky side... after all I'm running a P2 333mhz overclocked to a blisterring 400mhz so I should know!

But the closest equivelant for Mac is Altiverb whic is supposed to be fantastic BUT also a processor hog even on a full house G4.

For me short of spending a freaking shitload of cash on a top range TC or Lexicon hardware unit, Acoustic Mirror enables me to produce great sounding verbs with a little patience. And I rather wait a little longer for something good than put up with crap right away!

BTW Chessrock... how is the new TC M3000, Quantec and Lexicon going?

 

[chessrock]

BTW Chessrock... how is the new TC M3000, Quantec and Lexicon going?

Let's just say that I am forever in debt. You, sir, are a friend and a gentleman. Hats off to Pundit. Never thought I'd hear a $1,600 reverb coming out of these monitors without having to spend $50 renting it.

 

[pundit]

Let's just say that I am forever in debt. You, sir, are a friend and a gentleman. Hats off to Pundit. Never thought I'd hear a $1,600 reverb coming out of these monitors without having to spend $50 renting it.

For drums try the TC M3000 'Puk drum ambience' and 'Puk room ambience'.

Here's a rundown of Puk Studios form an early Studiosound article...

http://ampspeaker.com/papers/studiosound.htm

Cheers

 

[chessrock]

Hey, that looks just like my loft !



not.

 

[jslator]

As Chessrock said you need to...

I'm quite aware of that. What I was saying is that if you bus several tracks to your plugin "processor", you can't just process a single stereo track and adjust the level of that. You would have to process separate stereo reverb tracks for every individual main track with reverb on it. That becomes rather cumbersome.

Anyways, it's not printing the reverb to separate tracks that I have the biggest problem with. It's not being able to use it in realtime. I'd rather either use an outboard reverb unit (which is extremely simple and efficient compared to using a plugin that can't be used in realtime) or I'd just use a real space. As long as you have a decent outboard unit and/or a decent room, either of those options will inevitably sound better than any plugin anyway.

 

[chessrock]

As long as you have a decent outboard unit and/or a decent room, either of those options will inevitably sound better than any plugin anyway.

Yea, but then there's that whole $ $ $ issue that I'd rather not have to deal with right now.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

It all boils down to choice ! Nuthin'more,Nuthin less!

 

[chessrock]

Who asked you, anyway, Mr. Q ? ! @

 

[pundit]

...As long as you have a decent outboard unit and/or a decent room, either of those options will inevitably sound better than any plugin anyway.

Not neccessarily. If you generate a single digital sample (ie 1/44,100 or 1/48,00 etc) and send it to the digital input of a quality hardware unit, TC Lexicon etc. you can sample any reverb algorithm you choose by sending the effected sample back out of the digital output of the reverb into the digial I/O of your soundcard to your DAW. Once edited, you have a reverb impulse which can be used by plugins like Acoustic Mirror and is digital clone of the original hardware units algorithm.

Granted a hardware unit is a much faster, more convenient option for those that can afford the $5k plus for the upper market units.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

Who asked you, anyway, Mr. Q ? ! @

Well I figger'd since this thread was started d@mn near a year ago, and the same conclusions are being made now as back then,
maybe we can end this thread and find a way to eliminate the corns growin' on my pinky-toes!!!

 

[pundit]

Well I figger'd since this thread was started d@mn near a year ago, and the same conclusions are being made now as back then,
maybe we can end this thread and find a way to eliminate the corns growin' on my pinky-toes!!!

Wanna scratch my haemorrhoids?!!

 

[jake-owa]

I don't think anyone ever mentioned the fact that a crappy plugin verb has nothing but reverb. In contrast an MPX500 can chain a few different effects and with a few tweaks get a sound even Abbey Road could only have dreamed of back in the day.

Go for hardware everytime, your next OS upgrade will not make it dissapear.