MOTU MK-828 (version 2) or Presonus FP-10 ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter chrisghost
  • Start date Start date
C

chrisghost

New member
I've been demo-ing on all kinds of crap multitrackers for the last 10 years. I want to set up something good for a change. I know next to nothing about computers so I've been advised to get a second hand Mac (budget problems, as ever) since they're easier to sort out

Can anyone give me some advice on how to set up?

Two questions:

1. What's the better soundcard option: a MOTU MK-828 version 2, or a Presonus FP-10? I've been told a MOTU might be a bit better, but is there a big difference. Are there any other options (keep my budget problem in mind).

2. What program(s) is/are/were used in real studio's which would run smootly on a slightly older (second hand) Mac.

Cheers.

Chris
 
MOTU will give you much better latency performance, CPU effeciency at any given buffer setting, and clearer converters.

Any version software that was out when the Mac in question was being sold should be fine. Maybe an older version of Digital Peformer. Depends on how old and what model the Mac is.
 
I second the vote for MOTU 828mkII + Digital Performer. MOTU drivers seem to run exceptionally well on Macs. If you get anything G4 and up I would go with at least DP 4.5 or DP5 (given you'll be running Tiger as your OS). I wouldn't go with Leapord if you get any Mac that is pre-Intel.
 
Big difference. The MOTU will give you much lower CPU load and won't give you CPU spiking from the drivers (though I'm told that the BeBoB hardware's spiking problem should be somewhat reduced in late 10.4.x updates and 10.5).

As for software, IMHO, the two apps you should consider on the Mac are Logic and Digital Performer. I use DP personally (though I have a copy of Logic that I haven't gotten around to installing yet), but I've seen a lot of folks use Logic and most seem to like it as well. IMHO, either one should serve you well. The other apps out there get much more mixed reviews.

I wouldn't get a pre-Intel Mac these days if you have a choice. IMHO, Mac OS X is a lot more optimized for Intel than for PowerPC thanks to its NeXT heritage. A lot of low-level bits of the OS are just much faster on Intel hardware than G5 hardware even if the benchmarked CPU performance is nearly identical. The result is that everything is much snappier on the whole. Try to scrape up the cash for a used Intel-based Mac. You'll be a lot happier. Just my $0.02.
 
I have an 18 month old MOTU 828mk2

I have a problem with the shitty quality of the line in/out jacks , the metal ring on the outside of the unit pulls them away from the assembly, on the inside the plastic clips that holds the assembly together constanly pops off.

When i opened the unit to reseat the plastic clips i noticed that the 2 large capacitors close to the front of the unit were all swollen, i called MOTU and they told me that the unit was out of warrenty and was unrepairable. ( it still worked ). I ordered 2 replacement caps from one of my suppliers (i'm a computer technician) , replaced them myself and it's working still.

I checked the brand of caps used in the unit and found it to be the same manufacturer that makes caps using the WRONG formula for the electrolyte. Some commpanies are still using these parts because they are very cheap compared to good quality parts with the right formula. But the caps will fail.

check this out :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

buyer beware, I wont buy another motu product again after being told to replace a $900 unit that can be repaired with $5 worth of parts and 5 minutes with a soldering iron.

The crappy quality linein/out sockets still fall apart , thats another result of cheap and flimsy design. It wont be too much of an issue if you use it in a studio but if you use it mobile and have to constantly plug gear in it will be a problem for you too.

This is the type of problem i would expect to have to deal with behringer gear, ironically i have a couple of beringher racks and they have been no problem at all.

If you budget allows you may wish to check out this :-

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html

I'm not an M-Audio fan but this is a great mixer that combines tactile controls with VST integration ability. You'll find like me that if you prefered equipment rather than point and click faders that this will suite you quite well.
 
Last edited:
The project mix is nowhere near the audio quality of any MOTU unit.

I have a 828mkII that is 6 years old and works perfectly. Ive installed customers' original 24i's lately that are over 10 years old and working perfectly.
 
Hard2Hear said:
The project mix is nowhere near the audio quality of any MOTU unit.

I have a 828mkII that is 6 years old and works perfectly. Ive installed customers' original 24i's lately that are over 10 years old and working perfectly.
Click to expand...

H2H, I always respect you opinions because I know you work building DAWs... So, let me ask you this... I wanna upgrade from my FP10...
Do you think that the 828mkii FireWires it´s the best interface available in that price range (at $750 new)... Is there a significant difference between the MOTU and an RME FF400 for instance (quality-wise)?

Thanks!
 
Hard2Hear said:
The project mix is nowhere near the audio quality of any MOTU unit.

I have a 828mkII that is 6 years old and works perfectly. Ive installed customers' original 24i's lately that are over 10 years old and working perfectly.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you with the audio quality part , however i dare you to open it up and check the 2 large electrolytic caps inside the unit near the front. If these are left to leak the electrolyte will damage the tracks on the circuit board as it is very corrosive BUT if yours is that old you may have different caps in it.

Do you have a problem with the line input/output jacks ? the gold metal ring coming out when you unplug your cables ?
 
JuliánFernández said:
H2H, I always respect you opinions because I know you work building DAWs... So, let me ask you this... I wanna upgrade from my FP10...
Do you think that the 828mkii FireWires it´s the best interface available in that price range (at $750 new)... Is there a significant difference between the MOTU and an RME FF400 for instance (quality-wise)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you do have the extra cash go for the RME unit , I have installed one of those and not only does it have professional sound quality , its built like a tank.
 
I've been running a Motu828mkII daisy-chained to a Glyph firewire drive for 2 years with ZERO problems.

I'd get another Motu again in a heartbeat....
 
Yea I've had my Motu 828mkII for about 5 years now, had the BLA (new clock & analog) upgrade done a couple years ago, and the unit still works every time and sounds terrific. I'm not sure if I've ever had a problem with the 828 as the front end for my DP setup. At least not one that wasn't directly a result of some sort of human error on my part.
 
cortexx said:
I have an 18 month old MOTU 828mk2

I have a problem with the shitty quality of the line in/out jacks , the metal ring on the outside of the unit pulls them away from the assembly, on the inside the plastic clips that holds the assembly together constanly pops off.
Click to expand...

Let's put this in perspective. All those problems are easily repaired by replacing the jacks. By comparison, the FP10 has a problem with the FireWire ports ceasing to function---probably a sign that the PHY has fried itself. Think surface mount part the size of your smallest fingernail with a hundred pins spread around four sides.


cortexx said:
When i opened the unit to reseat the plastic clips i noticed that the 2 large capacitors close to the front of the unit were all swollen, i called MOTU and they told me that the unit was out of warrenty and was unrepairable. ( it still worked ). I ordered 2 replacement caps from one of my suppliers (i'm a computer technician) , replaced them myself and it's working still.
Click to expand...

If they told you that, the person you talked to was wrong. MOTU has a flat rate repair service for out-of-warranty devices ($50, IIRC).


cortexx said:
I checked the brand of caps used in the unit and found it to be the same manufacturer that makes caps using the WRONG formula for the electrolyte. Some commpanies are still using these parts because they are very cheap compared to good quality parts with the right formula. But the caps will fail.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, those capacitor manufacturers no longer purchase electrolyte from the company that used to make it with the wrong formula (sans stabilizer). In fact, I think I remember reading that the electrolyte manufacturer in question went bankrupt and ceased to exist.

The bad electrolyte formula should not be a problem for any device built in the last two or three years. If it is, either the caps had been lying around for a long time, it was a bad batch of caps, or there's some other cause---operating the caps too hot, for example. When you get a part failure like this, I would recommend replacing them with capacitors whose voltage rating is at least half again (ideally double) the voltage rating of the failed part, as that can make all the difference in the world.

Either way, my only thought is "Welcome to the world of Chinese-manufactured products, young grasshopper." M-Audio's Delta 1010 has a long history of the same capacitor problem. Almost every electronics manufacturer has gotten bitten by this problem at some point in their history. It's not really fair to blame MOTU for what was probably a single bad batch of capacitors.
 
dgatwood said:
If they told you that, the person you talked to was wrong. MOTU has a flat rate repair service for out-of-warranty devices ($50, IIRC).
Click to expand...

On the other hand, and I say this as a fan of MOTU hardware, do NOT rely on anyone at MOTU (if you can get past the busy signal) to give you accurate, factual, or even relevant information. The "tech support" people I talked to last time *claimed* not to be aware that the new drivers had almost doubled latency across the board
 
pipelineaudio said:
On the other hand, and I say this as a fan of MOTU hardware, do NOT rely on anyone at MOTU (if you can get past the busy signal) to give you accurate, factual, or even relevant information. The "tech support" people I talked to last time *claimed* not to be aware that the new drivers had almost doubled latency across the board
Click to expand...

They probably weren't aware.... Most people don't update their drivers with any regularity unless something breaks. Most of the rest install whatever version was on the CD that came bundled in the box with the hardware. So statistically speaking, all of twelve people worldwide have probably installed the latest version of the driver in question.... :D
 
When I say "new" its the one that came out in February

For tech support not to know something as drastic of a change as this amount of latency is far beyond plausible deniability. The 8pre is still one of the best deals out there, but Im just saying not to count on their tech support for anything.
 
JuliánFernández said:
H2H, I always respect you opinions because I know you work building DAWs... So, let me ask you this... I wanna upgrade from my FP10...
Do you think that the 828mkii FireWires it´s the best interface available in that price range (at $750 new)... Is there a significant difference between the MOTU and an RME FF400 for instance (quality-wise)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Firewire based, MOTU is going to be really hard to beat for performance. RME just had a price increase that puts the FF400 nearly double what you can get an 828mkIII for. I'd hammer down my exact needs and get what fits in the RME or MOTU line. Alot of people could get work done with an RME 96/32 and be extremely happy. OR, with a MOTU Ultralite or 8Pre for a couple hundred dollars less than the 828.

fwiw - MOTU just told mw not long ago that they increased all their warranties on new products as well.

pipeline- did you try the V3HD driver?

H2H
 
pipelineaudio said:
When I say "new" its the one that came out in February

For tech support not to know something as drastic of a change as this amount of latency is far beyond plausible deniability. The 8pre is still one of the best deals out there, but Im just saying not to count on their tech support for anything.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen, tech support in corporations generally only find out bad things about their products if a number of customers have called up and complained about the same issue. Even then, they usually can't admit that there's a problem (at least on the record) because it could create additional liability for the company. I'm not saying it's right, just that this is a good example of how the lawyers have ruined it for everybody.... :)
 
Well, many thanks for that!

So it will be MOTU then. I will use it at home and replacing an input chassis is not a problem. Don't you have to re-solder cables constantly as well (even Neutrick), comes with the job right?

But...

Any more tips on the software? Quite some votes for the program mentioned in the first reply. Anything else worth taking into account? What about that Cubase everyone's talking about, or is that more of a Workstation program? I do hook stuff up with Midi, but I take it that's standard issue in every program...
 
Cubase is similar to DP or Logic. Its made for PC or Mac, so its not generally as fluid using it on Macs as the software made just for Mac. But I use Cubase myself, and its a good program. I still think my choice on an older Mac wold be DP just out of my experience usign it on older Macs. Seems a little more stable and mac-centric with its workflow. Thats just me.
 
Hard2Hear said:
Firewire based, MOTU is going to be really hard to beat for performance. RME just had a price increase that puts the FF400 nearly double what you can get an 828mkIII for. I'd hammer down my exact needs and get what fits in the RME or MOTU line. Alot of people could get work done with an RME 96/32 and be extremely happy. OR, with a MOTU Ultralite or 8Pre for a couple hundred dollars less than the 828.

fwiw - MOTU just told mw not long ago that they increased all their warranties on new products as well.

pipeline- did you try the V3HD driver?

H2H
Click to expand...

Wow, MOTU 8pre seems to cover all my needS! Thanks H2H...

Any comments on the pres and the adda convertion?

(any other unit worth checking out -firewire or not-?)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top