MOTU Audio 2408mkII... peoples' opinion?

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pisces7378

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Alright, I am doing a total project studio overhall. I am still swinging on a super-dooper PC or the Super-Dooper dual 1Ghz Mac. But that is not my point for this thread. Judging from the way things are looking now I am probably going to be going with the Mac platform for standardization purposes, reliability, power, and because I like to know exactly whose neck to wring in case something fucks up, and not spend two hours on hot lines hearing people saying... "Well you will have to contact the original drive manufacturer for that." or "You will have to contact Microsoft for those drivers."

N-E-Wayz...

I am looking to do a 24-32 track opperation. Fully capabile of recording 9-10 individual (miced) drum tracks simultaniously so that I can adjust the levels of everything later in the mix.

Now I have been looking at the MOTU 2408mkII because of it's 24 inputs. Now I am no electronics wizz so I am going to ask some pretty basic questions here. The 2408 only has balanced TRS input jacks, no XLR jacks. Now I record using my Rode NTK which of course uses the XLR Mic jack. i am assuming that I would plug the Rode NTK (XLR Jack) into a pre-amp/mixer (like the TASCAM D24) that has pre-amps, and then run a normal balanced TRS OUT from the mixer and into the 2408mkII. Now, that change in format... does it cause ANY problems? Will I get unwanted noise or signal loss because the NTK runs XLR which is being changes into 1/4" TRS?

Question 2:
Do I absolutely HAVE to have a mixer for this 2408mkII? Right now I have the Delta-66 / OMNI studio package set up and I don't need a mixer because the OMNI does all I need it to do. but I am all alone here. When I overhall everything it will be to record my full band with drums, live bass, live guitars et cetera. NO MIDI. (I love MIDI for lonely working, but GOD I will be glad to have a real drummer instead of programming midi all day!)

Question 2 and a half:
With regards to above... if I do need a mixer... what is a good direction for me to look? Do I really need to breakout and plunk down the big bucks for the TASCAM D24 ($2,400) or would an analog mixer give the same results, just a little more old fashion? The reason I ask is... the 2408mkII has A/D converters and D/A conveters so converting the signal to digital before it goes through the mixer only saves me a little signal noise from the mixer, but that isn't tragic I don't think. Being realistic... with the Mac ($2,800) and the 2408mkII ($1,000) I am already looking at near $4,000 here. Do I really need to go for it with the $2,400 TASCAM D24?

please advise,

Mike
 
I am probably going to be going with the Mac platform for standardization purposes, reliability, power, and because I like to know exactly whose neck to wring in case something fucks up, and not spend two hours on hot lines hearing people saying... "Well you will have to contact the original drive manufacturer for that." or "You will have to contact Microsoft for those drivers."
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Macs aren't any more reliable than a well assembled PC, and sometimes less reliable. Macs aren't anywhere near as powerful as a PC half its price. You do not need to contact Microsoft to get drivers. If you do your homework, the only neck you'll need to wring is your own. Carry on.
 
I have the 2408nkII running on a 700MHz PIII and for me, it's perfect. But I hope you realize it only has 8 analog inputs (which are 1/4" balanced -10 or +4 input/outputs). You have 24 inputs and outputs on ADAT lightpipe digital or TDIF (Tascam digital) and two S/PDIF inputs and outputs. I have ADATs so I use the MOTU to get them in and out of the computer although I also use the ADATs as A/D/A converters with the MOTU for recording direct to disc.
You definately need as many mic preamps as you need mics. A mixer is probably your best bet on that score. Something like a Mackie 1604 would work very well and can be picked up used for a decent price. That would give you 16 mic pre's that are VERY servicable.
 
elevate

OK...

I am trying to keep my head on straight here. I just did some fuguring for my new studio wish list. I have seen that a Mac is just GOD DAMN expensive. I saw the dual Ghz and it is running like $2,999.00 without a monitor, and even the single 933Mhz is $2,499 once I fill it up with ram and a fast HDD.

So rather than be all stuborned and think: "no matter what, I want a Mac." I want to keep myself open to sticking with a good PC. However, I have a question for you...

WHERE do I get a good SOLID pc? I went to www.dell.com and "customized" one of their computers and JESUS I put together a fucking monster...
17" flat screen monitor
Pent IV 2.0 GHz
1 GB of RAM
120 GB 7200 rpm HDD
...and a ton of other bells and whistles for $2,197

That kicks the shit out of the Mac G4s and I will have a monitor already. With the Mac you pay $2,500 and then they still ask ya... ok now what type of $999 and up, monitor would you like?

But it seems that Mac has their finger on the trigger a bit better when it comes to making music. For example... I do not know if I need a bad ass graphics card like the new G-force 4. I do not know what to say about a sound card. I would like to say leave the sound off all together because I will be buying my own sound card seperatly... but it seems like everything comes with a sound card either inside or build onto the mother board somehow. I have heard of problems getting an integrated sound card (built on the Mother board) to go away when you install your real sound card for music. How do I address that one? There has to be a tried and true PC place for me to go and ask. Either online or in reality. Where is it? What should I ask for?

Thanks man,

Mike
 
WHERE do I get a good SOLID pc?
Click to expand...

Dell is perhaps the best vendor, but I haven't bought a prebuilt PC in a long time. You'll get the best results if you take the time and do some research, buy the parts you want, and build it yourself.

You don't need a GeForce 4, unless you plan on playing the latest and greatest 3D games. For doing audio work, a Matrox G450 would be great - easy on the eyes and you can get a dual head version and get yourself a second monitor with the money you'll be saving by not buying a Mac.

On board sound can almost always be disabled through the bios. This shouldn't be of concern to you.

Here's a few PC resource sites that will help guide you in the right direction:
AnandTech
ArsTechnica
Tom's Hardware

When shopping for parts (if you choose to go that route), use these two sites in conjunction - PriceWatch and ResellerRatings, or just go to NewEgg.
 
I read all the specs on the www.MOTU.com website that deals with this 2408mkII but I must not have paid attention to the input count on the analog TRS's. I saw all that S/PDIF and ADAT ins et cetera... but I never thougth that the plain and simple 1/4" TRS balanced ins would take such a blow to make room for so many ins that are not so often used. I mean OK, you have your ADATs... but who in the hell needs all that other stuff except, like, a person wanting to edit together digital audio with digital film and stuff like that? Do you think that it is just another way to get people to buy the base system with that big 24 INPUTS slogan, and then later on after outgrowing the 8 analog ins, they will have to go buy another 2408mkII box to "grow" as they call it?

This things costs $1,000 (or am I mistaken?) and I might buy it and then run the risk of needing more inputs for my drums? Is there any work around should I run into this scenerio? Can one of those other ins (S/PDIF, ADAT Optical, et cetera...) can ANY of the other ins on this beautiful machine give me one or two more ins should I really need to stretch my drum micing to 9-10 mics?

Thanks man for kind of being my "man to go to" for this. it really does help a ton!

Mike
 
No problem man. When you outgrow your 8 inputs you could get another 2408, but a more logical solution would be to get an Alesis AI-3. I think these things go for around $300 and that'll give you 8 more ins and 8 more outs, and I think you could hook up three of these puppies to your 2408, still costing less than one new 2408.
 
If you have some technical proficiency/proclivity, building your own is really not incredibley difficult. More a patience issue than anything else. And maybe alot of research choosing components. You learn soooo much from the process.

Buying a prebuilt looks good on paper and may be good in some cases but some problems to look for beyond the nice specs are open PCI slots for sound cards, DSP etc, and MOBO's with compatibility issues etc.

An alternative to the general purpose prebuilts are the companies that make 'em especially for audio recording. www.wavedigital.com has since gone purely Mac and are now recommending someone else for PC- Carillon, I think. It's on their site. I'd definitely go this way if not building my own. They'll supposedly set up the soundcard, software and everything for you.
 
or you could get a motu 24i for $399 (Guitar Center) - that has 24 analog ins.
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I'm not sure, but it looks like you left $1,000 off that price. The cheapest I could find it is $1,029 at 8th Street.
 
The price for the 24i is for JUST the 24i. You still need the PCI card. All together it's about a grand. Now someone like myself could buy just the 24i to expand my sysytem since I already have the PCI card that will accept two more MOTU devices for a total of three.
 
I am running the 2408mkII and haven't had problems. Just one thing to remember though. If you need help, you don't get it from MOTU. Their tech support is pretty much non existant. I've asked numerous questions that went unanswered. I also find the 2408s manual to be lacking...
 
just to give me something to compare this MOTU 2408mkII to, could one of you fine fellows tell me a few other products that have similar functionality to this device? I have deffinitly decided to go with a PC and not a Mac and I will deffinitly be buying as soon as possible the Mackie 1604 Pro 16 Channel mixer. Now I need to have an audio interface with as many analog and maybe digital inputs as possible. This 2408mkII is looking HOT. but that is mainly due to the fact that I have seen NOTHING that has similar input count. Any suggestions?

Also the new 896 Firewire deal from MOTU has 8 analog inputs and a couple of digital I/Os. The 2408mkII seems to have the same analog count but heaped up on the digital "other" I/Os that i myself would probably not ever use. I have no ADATs and I don't even have a clue what Sony philips Digital interface is needed for in MY prohject studio. Like you all said... if it works for YOUR needs then cool. if not, then move on. Well the 896 looks more like it works for my needs, since I am only interested in the analog ins count.

I am just wondering though... when I have my 8 analog drum mics all coming out of my mixer and going into the motu 896, will....
A) the Firewire connection have a fast enough data transfer rate to cope with that?
B) Will the PC know how to split the 8 signals back up into 8 individual tracks so that the snare and kick drum mics etc. will be all on a seperate track?
C) Will the pre-amps from the Mackie mixer not put out a "too hot" signal for the motu 896 that also has pre-amps in it?

Thanks all, this is a great damn thread.

Mike
 
[will] the Firewire connection have a fast enough data transfer rate to cope with that?
Click to expand...
I would assume so, otherwise they wouldn't have put it on there.
Will the PC know how to split the 8 signals back up into 8 individual tracks so that the snare and kick drum mics etc. will be all on a seperate track?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Will the pre-amps from the Mackie mixer not put out a "too hot" signal for the motu 896 that also has pre-amps in it?
Click to expand...
Not sure, but you may be able to disable the preamps. If you don't need the preamps, then it sounds like the 896 isn't the right card for you.

You may not have ADAT's, but that doesn't mean you couldn't use the ADAT ports. As I mentioned earlier, the Alesis AI-3 will connect to your ADAT port and offer you 8 ins and 8 outs of 1/4" balanced connections.
 
You are right elevate...

The 896 would be a pretty damn dumb thing to buy if I am also buying a Mackie mixer. One of, if not THE major feature of this 896 from MOTU is the pre-amps going into the PC. if the Mackie has pre's on board... then what is the point?

Anyway I have written to the people at Carillon http://www.carillonusa.com/
to see about getting them to build me a system out of their "barebones #2" system. Here are the specs on it...

"Bare-Bones Two"
Step up to dual hard drives, CD burning & greater processing power with confidence.
Carillon Audio Computer

Intel Pentium IV 1.7GHz
512MB 133MHz SDRAM
20GB Seagate Softsonic
ATA/100 7200 RPM System Drive
40GB Seagate Softsonic
ATA/100 7200 RPM Audio Drive
Black 16x10x40 Speed CDRW & 5 blank CD's
32Mb ATI Rage Pro Card
Windows 98 SE

Additional Software
Emagic Zap Lossless Compression
Cakewalk Pyro CD Burning
Carillonhow Manual & Tutorials
LoopStation Free Sample Library

Price: $1399

They will customize things and stick in 3rd Party sound cards and basically build you whatever you want. This price is sweet to me. I have e-mailed them and asked if they could start with this "Bare-bones two" system and add the MOTU 2408mkII audio interface. Then I would have it all set up sweetly. You should go check out their website if you haven't already. The quietness of the computer is what is making my eyes sparkle. Plus the fact that it is set up from mother board to on/off switch to be geared towards audio on the PC. i already have Logic Audio Platinum 4.8.1 (by then I will have v. 5) and I will have one hell of a music crunching machine.

Since I am customizing this thing from top to bottm I could add a little here or take a little away there. Having looked at the above specs... do you see any weaknesses? The 1.7 Ghz is fast enough for me. I have been satisfied with my 933MHz so far so 1.7 GHz seems to be more than ok. They have a "bare-bones Three" system that sells for quite a lot more. It has a 2.0 Ghz Pent IV with 512 MB of RAM, but the RAM is 400MHz RDRAM instead of the 512 MBs of 133MHz RDRAM. So the MBs are the same but the MHz is higher on the more expensive model. Is that a HUGE consideration? I mean they are talking like an $800 price increase for what seems to be only the fact that it has a 2 GHz Pent IV and this 400MHz RDRAM instead of 133MHz. What do you think?

Thanks man... You should go work for MOTU, because you have damn near single handledly sold one to me. Unless anyone can come up with a reasonable alternative, it looks like I will be going with it. Thanks again.

Mike
 
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