bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Multi-band compression is absolutely the worst thing to suggest someone start with, especially if they're a beginner. Suggesting presets just makes the advice even worse.
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Multi-band compression is absolutely the worst thing to suggest someone start with, especially if they're a beginner. Suggesting presets just makes the advice even worse.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
The WORST THING most systems have are presets. And meters - and freaky displays that make you look at sound instead of listen to it.
Presets...? You want to learn what something does, first zero it out and then start messing with the controls.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
So, 'art of mastering', combined with presets of plugins is the way to give great advice from a guy (Engineer) that has been in the business for how long?
Sorry man, this is not accurate (again).
This may be over stepping myself being chill or moderator like, but why the hell are you still just an engineer after 40+ years of working with the greatest mastering engineers? Should you not be mastering or mixing yourself? You said that yourself in another post.
Anyway, to be honest, I don't even care what you call yourself. The fact that you have consistently given advice that is not accurate by today's standards with modern measurements and proven testing of them leads me to believe that you do not care about the 'Home Recording' guy.
Why would you suggest that anyone drape cloth on his ceiling as a ceiling cloud and pretend that it does a cent of good for a dood in a 10x10x7' room? That will do no good for anyone! A fire hazard and very little benefit as far as absorption is concerned.
I do not doubt that you have some great experience that is likely valuable to myself and others here. That would be great to hear if you didn't riddle your experience with comments like 'use presets' of a mastering package.
That is just ridiculous advice. Anyone with any real experience knows that you cannot even think of using a preset on anything. If you had said something like 'try the presets and learn what they do to mess up your mix/master' then it would not sound so crazy. But you condone using them and give no description of any genre or situation that will obviously make use of any preset setting. It is just bullocks. Most of us with any experience realize that nothing is right or wrong. Use your ears to make decisions.
IMO, the issue is that you still have ideals that were there in the 60's. Cool and all, but technology has come a long way since then dood.
Fabric is no longer made with asbestos these days man. 'Dangerous' in one of my comments to you was about the fire hazard of draping cloth below ceiling to absorb frequencies like a 'cloud' made of whatever better material there is. I can name 5 materials that would do better than what you suggested without the fire hazard and much better ability of absorbing reflections.
This is a 'Home Recording' forum. Please keep in mind that a kid with a typical small bedroom is likely to burn the whole house down with a cloth draped ceiling and a lit cigarette or candle. You did not think or relay that in your recommendation. I would hope someone who considers themselves an 'engineer' would act as one.
Isn't it the job of an audio engineer in a pro studio to make sure everything is in order so that a project goes smoothly? Sorry, kids on fire do not sound like something I would accept from anyone.
No disrespect meant towards you personally, but the advice I have seen you give is not usually good for members of this forum. Sorry, but I just can't have the forum I devote so much time to learning from others tainted with bad information/advice.
Sorry man, this is not accurate (again).
This may be over stepping myself being chill or moderator like, but why the hell are you still just an engineer after 40+ years of working with the greatest mastering engineers? Should you not be mastering or mixing yourself? You said that yourself in another post.
Anyway, to be honest, I don't even care what you call yourself. The fact that you have consistently given advice that is not accurate by today's standards with modern measurements and proven testing of them leads me to believe that you do not care about the 'Home Recording' guy.
Why would you suggest that anyone drape cloth on his ceiling as a ceiling cloud and pretend that it does a cent of good for a dood in a 10x10x7' room? That will do no good for anyone! A fire hazard and very little benefit as far as absorption is concerned.
I do not doubt that you have some great experience that is likely valuable to myself and others here. That would be great to hear if you didn't riddle your experience with comments like 'use presets' of a mastering package.
That is just ridiculous advice. Anyone with any real experience knows that you cannot even think of using a preset on anything. If you had said something like 'try the presets and learn what they do to mess up your mix/master' then it would not sound so crazy. But you condone using them and give no description of any genre or situation that will obviously make use of any preset setting. It is just bullocks. Most of us with any experience realize that nothing is right or wrong. Use your ears to make decisions.
IMO, the issue is that you still have ideals that were there in the 60's. Cool and all, but technology has come a long way since then dood.
Fabric is no longer made with asbestos these days man. 'Dangerous' in one of my comments to you was about the fire hazard of draping cloth below ceiling to absorb frequencies like a 'cloud' made of whatever better material there is. I can name 5 materials that would do better than what you suggested without the fire hazard and much better ability of absorbing reflections.
This is a 'Home Recording' forum. Please keep in mind that a kid with a typical small bedroom is likely to burn the whole house down with a cloth draped ceiling and a lit cigarette or candle. You did not think or relay that in your recommendation. I would hope someone who considers themselves an 'engineer' would act as one.
Isn't it the job of an audio engineer in a pro studio to make sure everything is in order so that a project goes smoothly? Sorry, kids on fire do not sound like something I would accept from anyone.
No disrespect meant towards you personally, but the advice I have seen you give is not usually good for members of this forum. Sorry, but I just can't have the forum I devote so much time to learning from others tainted with bad information/advice.
Vigo
Member
Lesson of the day kids, never try to learn something, never.
R
Rod Norman
New member
No, I'm not joking. You should finish your mix then send it along with the individual wave files to a mastering engineer along with a sample of a commercial CD you want your music to meet. Make sure its similar to your music. They will use your mix as a guide to what you want to stand out. They will work on the mix and send you the result to approve or comment on. Now, we all know nobody does that anymore. Everything is DIY. But when someone doesn't understand why the result isn't like a commercial product, this is why. They don't know what they are doing. This thread was for mastering tips. I know everyone else will give good advice on what to do and how to do it. But if they are not mastering engineers working in a studio set up for nothing but mastering, it will always fall a little short of that commercial product. Nothing I said was stupid.
I hope you're joking around, because that could possibly be the stupidest post I've read in a year.
No offense.
G
Greg_L
Banned
The fraud is back.
rayc
retroreprobate
"...your master will sound like your mix, but beefier."
The Big Mac Master?
What if your mix had too much beef? Would you then add chips/fries to balance it?
If you've made a mix than lacks beef are you porcine inclined, muttoning to yourself or just chicken?
---------- Update ----------
Rod,
you're going to have to pay for mixing and mastering. That'd be VERY expensive. Stem mastering MAY be closer to what you're suggesting but that's more work and expense than mastering.
The Big Mac Master?
What if your mix had too much beef? Would you then add chips/fries to balance it?
If you've made a mix than lacks beef are you porcine inclined, muttoning to yourself or just chicken?
---------- Update ----------
Rod,
you're going to have to pay for mixing and mastering. That'd be VERY expensive. Stem mastering MAY be closer to what you're suggesting but that's more work and expense than mastering.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
They could send all that to a MIXING engineer...
R
Rod Norman
New member
This was meant for someone just starting out. No one is ever going to get the results a mastering studio will get. But in a home studio (usually a bedroom) beginners can get what they are really looking for from amstering and that is more "volume" The multiband compressor can do marvelous things with a mix right off the top and will usually give a beginner what they are looking for. We never attempted to master in the same studio we recorded and mixed in, but for the client's sake, using the MBC helped them feel that their mix was done. (we always sent off the dry mix along with a reference CD that they had bright in at the beginning along with the compressed mix for a reference of what the client liked. The mastering engineers always returned a final master that was head and shoulders above what we sent. The client was always wowed and happy. The MBC "master" was quickly forgotten. But for a beginner I could not see how this advice would cause any distress or harm to equipment or themselves. It would be a start and they could grow from there for better attempts after viewing tutorials and reading articles you guys might post; which I noticed wasn't done here but in another thread. This was never meant to be the end all and be all of mastering. I thought that was clear.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Rod Norman
Engineer
I hope you're joking around, because that could possibly be the stupidest post I've read in a year.
No offense.
B
bongoboy
a clown without a circus
Jeez, I've been away for a while and this yahoo is still spewing his garbage. And I thought I was clueless.
M
MusicWater
Banned
Re-think that thought would help you comment more nicely next time.
M
MusicWater
Banned
Maybe it's time that you place a mirror in front of yourself? No disrespect meant towards you personally, but the advice I have seen you give is not actually good for members of this forum dood.
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MrWrenchey
Member
This coming from the guy that makes up audio terms... xD
M
MusicWater
Banned
If there is not a term present in the dictionary in order to describe something, you kind of need to define one? If nobody would have done so, we would not be able to speak...
Signal-to-background noise in a mix is a properly coined term. As long as you don't care about what it might mean and how it is impacting your mixes, it means nothing to you. But that does not mean it automatically has to mean nothing to everybody else. Anyone who is open and willing to learn, can learn.
BroKen_H
Re-member
I do see something I agree with in all this. If you study the presets and listen to the differences between them noting the different tweaks to the knobs, you may learn something about how a specific unit, and it's knobs, works. Actually using the presets, however, is probably not a good idea, and I'm pretty sure it's not what Rod meant...
I also agree that multiband compression is not any place to start. It does do wonders in the right hands with the right genres of music, but probably not so much in the hands of a newb home recordist.
I also agree that multiband compression is not any place to start. It does do wonders in the right hands with the right genres of music, but probably not so much in the hands of a newb home recordist.
R
RAMI
Guest
Jimmy knows what he's talking about and always gives good advice. Worry about yourself. You've got much bigger problems than worrying about Jimmy. He's not a joke around here. You and Rod are.
BroKen_H
Re-member
The problem with your SBN, is that it is not a new definition, as the definition of SNR is "a measure of signal strength relative to background noise.", Margaret Rouse, techtarget.com/definitions
It is not properly coined if it only redefines the same. That would be redundant, meaning there is already a term present in the dictionary to describe it, so there is no need to define a new one. Calling beef oberitz does not coin a new word and help the language, it only distracts and becomes gibberish...
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
SafeandSound
New member
I think a consideration directly related to the OP is that without accuracy and scale, related to monitor size you can not easily adjust that which cannot be heard. You want confidence that a perceived improvement really is otherwise it becomes a rather pointless exercise.
Barry Gardner
SafeandSound Mastering
Album mastering procedure - video
Barry Gardner
SafeandSound Mastering
Album mastering procedure - video
famous beagle
Well-known member
In my opinion, I don't think presets are totally useless across the board. Obviously, the chance of one them being right on is practically nil, but they can be useful for learning. You can scroll through them, taking note of how the settings change and how the sound is affected. You can also zero everything out and start moving one knob at a time if you want to do it that way.
But if you find a preset that gets you somewhat close to the sound you want, I don't see the harm in starting there and tweaking it. It's all a learning process anyway; it's not as though any of us are going to be mastering the piece of music that represents the planet earth on the next Voyager probe or anything. We're simply guys who are recording at home and are wanting to make our music sound as good as possible. Of course, if you're serious about trying to sell an album or get a record deal, etc., then you'll probably want to have your stuff professionally mastered until you feel confident that you know what you're doing. But if you're not doing that, then I say feel free to learn any way you'd like.
If there's one thing I've learned by reading about various engineers (recording, mixing, mastering, whatever), it's that just about no two people do things the same way. And I can't say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that one of the primary reasons that's true is because none of them learned exactly the same way.
My two cents.
But if you find a preset that gets you somewhat close to the sound you want, I don't see the harm in starting there and tweaking it. It's all a learning process anyway; it's not as though any of us are going to be mastering the piece of music that represents the planet earth on the next Voyager probe or anything. We're simply guys who are recording at home and are wanting to make our music sound as good as possible. Of course, if you're serious about trying to sell an album or get a record deal, etc., then you'll probably want to have your stuff professionally mastered until you feel confident that you know what you're doing. But if you're not doing that, then I say feel free to learn any way you'd like.
If there's one thing I've learned by reading about various engineers (recording, mixing, mastering, whatever), it's that just about no two people do things the same way. And I can't say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that one of the primary reasons that's true is because none of them learned exactly the same way.
My two cents.
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