more color = more mess

  • Thread starter Thread starter mixmkr
  • Start date Start date
mixmkr

mixmkr

we don't need rest!!
why does it seem that topics such as "having a nice pallette of mics" to choose from, or a good selection of available "colors" to choose from amongst mic pres, is such an importance to the average home recordist (and also really aimed at the beginner recordist). Sure, you bet your booty I know what the advantages are, but IN MY OPINION, it seems the average person recording in their basement/bedroom has more than enough variables to handle than having to deal with mic "colors". It would seem to me that ACCURATE (like what you put in, is what you get) would be what you'd want to start off with. Then, as you get your recording chops down more, you can start to experiment with different "flavors" of mics and pres. I for one, actually prefer this approach anyway, and don't look for items to "warm up my sound" or "fatten up" a sterile synth track. I think moving the mic (as small as just an inch sometimes) has a MUCH MORE profound effect than tying to figure out if I am using the right mic in the first place. I also think that many home recordists are in the same league with their musical abilities too, and THAT imo is really the BIG issue for getting a good sound. I mean, listen to the GOOD stuff that some of the "pros" put up around here, and imo, their job was easier than the one trying to get a good sound out of the little brother hacking away on a reverse dinky tuned down below the equator. Their sound sources where great to start with, ...and then items like mic flavors ...(man I hate those expressions too!!) come much more into play. A mic 3 feet away from a blasting Crate amplifier in a concrete basement is another dimension.

I think that may be one of the reasons the Mackie pre became so popular as it was touted as being accurate first (and not getting into the discussion as if it really is or not) as compared to having a sound...like the infamous ART tube mp, for instance.

BTW, isn't that also considered "one" of the proper uses of items such as compression... if you can't hear it, you probably are doing it right? ..again also understanding that 1176's have that "musical" sound to them:rolleyes:

ah...but you say... a 57 on a Marshall cabinet just can't be emulated with any other setup.. That may be true, but my argument is the sound from the average homereccor, even though they still might own a 57 and a slant 1960 cabinet, still sounds pretty pukey...as compared to what it COULD sound like.
 
mixmkr said:
:

ah...but you say... a 57 on a Marshall cabinet just can't be emulated with any other setup.. That may be true, but my argument is the sound from the average homereccor, even though they still might own a 57 and a slant 1960 cabinet, still sounds pretty pukey...as compared to what it COULD sound like.
Click to expand...

then you need a POD!!! .....sorry, I couldn't let that one by....!!! I thought this might be the place where a statement like that might go unnoticed!!


(the above was a joke...for all you naysaying POD assholes!!):rolleyes:
 
I guess I can agree, to some point. But there's going to come a time, even in the realm of the home recordist, where his abilities have superceeded the audio buddy/sm57 chain.

At that point, there's nothing wrong with increasing his pallets.

By the same token: I started off trying to record one of THE most difficult instruments, the grand piano, because thats what I play. Had I been somehow "forced" to use the above mentioned chain, I would have given up long ago. But ONLY by increasing both my mic pallet, and my pre-amp pallet was I able to have a chain of sufficient quality where differences in mic placement of "an inch" or so made an audible difference.
 
For a newbie, one man operation at home, I agree that trying to build a palette is somewhat a waste of time.

Only the guy who wants to be an engineer or expanding out to record multiple musicians should focus on a palette building approach.

That said, in trying to find the one mic and preamp that gave me the quality I was looking for, I ended up with a lot of mics and preamps. Now that I have narrowed things down a bit I will be unloading some of my crayons.
 
Michael Jones said:
By the same token: I started off trying to record one of THE most difficult instruments, the grand piano, because thats what I play. Had I been somehow "forced" to use the above mentioned chain, I would have given up long ago. But ONLY by increasing both my mic pallet, and my pre-amp pallet was I able to have a chain of sufficient quality where differences in mic placement of "an inch" or so made an audible difference.
Click to expand...

The best ever sound I pulled from a grand piano was when I gaffa taped a PZM under the hood, smack bang in the middle. Talk about natural sound. It's still my starting point today, regrdless of what mics/techniques I end up employing.

Dingo :)
RAW - The Recording Audio Website - [url]www.Recording-Audio.com[/URL]
 
"Art is the big lie told in order to unveil the bigger truth".
(or similar paraphrasing)

That quote is based upon the more profound expositories of
pro engineers like Stephen Paul, Fletcher, et al.
Therefore "accurate" usually isn't "better", unless we are talking about
classical music.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
Therefore "accurate" usually isn't "better", unless we are talking about
classical music.

Chris
Click to expand...

I can agree with that. However, if one is using a tool that isn't very accurate, ending up with the desired results usually has a margin of error that sometimes is greater than expected or wanted....especially if one is not sure in which way to intentionally error to compensate.
 
Good point.
Keep in mind though that no existing microphone replicates the human
ear, which is certainly not "lin-ear"-if you can forgive the wordplay. :)
That's why experimentation is best.

Chris
 
If you are saying a one man operation only needs one mic, Ill disagree

If you are saying a one man operation desnt need a whole bunch of different LD condensors, Ill agree

I think a one man operation needs at least one SM57, 1 good LD dynamic, 1 good LD condensor, and a pair of SD condensors.....
 
If you're looking to add "color," to your palet and increase your options, I'd have to say the mic is the most expensive place to do it . . . so it might not necessarily be the most optimal point in the signal chain to focus on for the beginning or intermediate-level / home recordist.

You mentioned the POD, but ironically, that's not a bad place to start. When I want to add a little something to vocal or snare tracks, one of the first things I'll do is pull out the Sansamp and fiddle around for a while. Find a tone I like, then I'll re-amp a separate track with it and blend it in with the original dry track and see what happens. Another fav of mine is the mxr limiter, and I know a lot of people who are fans of the Ashly compressor. I have a client who somehow managed to get some totally bitchin' vocal effect susing a Digitech pedal, and another friend who's got like 100 Danelectro guitar pedals that can do some interesting things when used in moderation.

And these are some pretty radical "shades" that are much more in line, financially-speaking, with the hobbyist / aspiring engineer.
 
chessrock said:
If you're looking to add "color," to your palet and increase your options, I'd have to say the mic is the most expensive place to do it . . . so it might not necessarily be the most optimal point in the signal chain to focus on for the beginning or intermediate-level / home recordist.
You mentioned the POD, but ironically, that's not a bad place to start. When I want to add a little something to vocal or snare tracks, one of the first things I'll do is pull out the Sansamp and fiddle around for a while. Find a tone I like, then I'll re-amp a separate track with it and blend it in with the original dry track and see what happens. Another fav of mine is the mxr limiter, and I know a lot of people who are fans of the Ashly compressor. I have a client who somehow managed to get some totally bitchin' vocal effect susing a Digitech pedal, and another friend who's got like 100 Danelectro guitar pedals that can do some interesting things when used in moderation.

And these are some pretty radical "shades" that are much more in line, financially-speaking, with the hobbyist / aspiring engineer.
Click to expand...


No...I am not looking to add "color" , " a larger pallette", more scum on the waterline... all those silly phrases...

Infact, personally I prefer to have an accurate starting place to begin with (but realize that that is tuff to achieve...and against the grain of what many other people probably think).
I also disagree that the mic is not the most expensive place in the scope of things to make these "color" adjustments. I would call your ROOM the most expensive item to change...then your instruments, then possibly your mics... Not counting if you use mic pres in a $100K console either...or its summing amps, blah, blah..

my POD mentioning was a joke... (won't go there with the explanation....!!)

my point was that I felt in the scope of things, mic choice was and should be down the line of importance for most home recordists, because I think just about everything else will have a MUCH greater impact on the sound. I am certainly not excluding the choice and use of different mics for certain applications, but if you listen in the clinic (which I know you do), mic choices doesn't really mean squat in my opinion in most of those tunes. Maybe I am not giving enough credit to those that take those fine subtlties of different mic choices and put them to good use (as there are those that do that, for sure), but for the most part, other factors such as clean signal path, playing in tune, being able to PLAY, mic'ing in a "proper and useful" manner, technique and finnese with the instrument, cabling and mic pres...(like the behringer VS radio shack comparision), production, timing, EQ use, use of effects, mixing abilities, monitor setups....on and on.... all have a MUCH bigger impact with those with what I would call the "home setup".

also, Gidge...

I think your comments are valid, but kinda "sideways" to what I am trying to say. Do you really believe the V67g is the secret behind your vocal sound? Personally, I think a 57 or a C1000 would do just about the same job for you....and both very different mics...eh? I think you are still trying to get that last 10% out of your vocals... and some people that don't even sing (like me!..the last 80%)...while others like Crawdad might be working on the last 3% for their sound... THEN..the mic might apply more so... but only in cases with people with his vocal talent. Now take samicide... not even discussing whether he has vocal talent or not, it doesn't even matter what kind of mic he uses......right? Shit...I'd bet he doesn't even know anyway!!! (he's rockin' out too much with the ebow and the bong!!!) (thanks sammy for letting me use you as an example;) )

anyway...that is the point I am trying to make.
the idea of track stacking and mud pile up... that is a very VALID point... I have to agree with that VERY much.
 
I think your argument has the makings of something very profound and thought-provoking.

You might need to develop it a little more, though. No offense, but it's a little vague. Like I'm looking for a cohesive statement and/or position here, but what I'm getting is like 2 or 3 different points and I'm supposed to tie them together. :D

I think I know what you're saying, though, and it sounds like you're putting an exclamation point on the importance of sound fundamentals and how important they are to tracking and mixing -- that we shouldn't be worrying ourselves with adding "colors" to our "palet" untill we first work out some issues with our song arrangements, tracking technique, performance, etc.

. . . in which case, I think what you're saying is spot-on. Sweat the fundamentals. Then feed the gear lust (ie -- worry about the sublte differences between mics, mic pres, etc).

Is that what you're saying?
 
yes....right on the money.

and I also want to be certain that I am not taking away credit from anyone who has already "sweated" those fundementals, and it obviously shows by their finished products. However, I think many think choosing the correct mic IS one of the fundementals, and that is where I disagree (to a point) also. The manufacturers also seem to be really having a field day on this point too. (which they should...I just get a couple of jollies that they aim it towards the "gtr center crowd"... the last bunch of people one would think could even hear the differences!!)


I think you could put a 57 on the kick, a 603 on the toms, a d112 on the snare and a pair of sm58's for overheads, and given someone who knows how to mic drums, tune them, play them and have experience in the intricacies of recording them, will get one damn excellent recording given that $500 group of mics. I think you could mic an entire kit with 57's... and with some experienced use of EQ and mic placement..... !!.

But...it is fun ....the gear lust...choosing this...picking that. after all...what other magazines/catalogs are there to read on the toilet?? (gidge..don't answer that!!)
 
For too long now, the mic forum has been so product-focused . . .

What mic should I buy for this?

What mic is the best for $X ?

What $1000 + mic pre will sound best in my tiny room through my crappy monitors?

You realize what you're saying is a pretty revolutionary concept for a lot of use here. :D Just tell us what mic you like best for $200 and move along already. :D
 
I grew up bouncing around the various recording studios in my hometown. Each band I was in spent a lot of time and money recording at other peoples pro studios. I finally got to the point where I wanted more leeway and control over the recording process, and more time to experiment, so I began assembling my own studio.

There was no way I was going to buy average gear after having used such great equipment in other's studios - thus all of the recording gear that I have purchased, other than a piece or two, is top of the line stuff. I'm also of the opinion that it's a waste of money to buy average equipment that sounds less than stellar, and would quickly become obsolete to me. If I was 16 years old and had just started my first band, then the type of recording gear that I purchased would obviously be different.

Bottom line IMO is buy the best gear that you can afford if you are serious about your music. If it's just a hobby then there's probably no reason to spend $2k on a mic pre or $4k on a mic.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top