Mood for a Day with NTK's and C1's

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Sonixx

Sonixx

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Note: This is not a mic comparison of any kind...it's just two recordings of me playing Mood for a Day (by Steve Howe - YES) using a pair of RÓDE NTK's and a pair of SP-C1's.

I tried to duplicate the two mic setups as closely as possible and the recordings were made within 30 minutes of each other. The mic's were spaced 13 inches apart and 30 inches in front of my Takamine Guitar both pointed at the 12th fret. No EQ or other signal processing. There's a couple of playing goofs in each but the intent was to capture my guitar with these two mics. I did this solely for posting here. Normally with this guitar, I cut about 3db at 250Hz with a fairly low Q. It's a bit honky there...but no cutting for this post.

The MP3's are 192kbits and were converted with the Lame Encoder.

C1 - Mood for a Day

NTK - Mood for a Day

Here's the signal chain:

Pair of: NTK's (consecutive Serial Numbers) or C1's

Mackie 1604VLZ Preamp -> Insert out

Tango 20 bit converter

RME 96/52 PCI Card

Lucid Genx6 Wordclock @ 44.1KHz

Samplitude v6.03

Check it out if you're interested...
 
Nice job. Steve Howe would be proud. I've been using a single NT1000 and PreSonus MP20 for classical guitar.
 
Wide Awake said:
Nice job. Steve Howe would be proud. I've been using a single NT1000 and PreSonus MP20 for classical guitar.
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thanks...
 
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Hmmmm...2 C1's for less than 1 NTK! :D :D :D

Of course that's the price at 8th Street Music, but it could get closer. Both mics did a damn fine job, but you know how I feel about these. Well done Sonix, but that's how it was that day, that time, in your room, on your gear. Buyers should know they may or may not get the same results in their rooms.

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
I'm confused, if it's not a mic comparrason then what is it?

Carl
 
Krakit said:
I'm confused, if it's not a mic comparrason then what is it?

Carl
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you can do what you will with the recordings. if you find no value then don't do anything or waste anymore of your time, if you're thinking about one of these, then maybe it'll give you a bit more info to work with. i'm drawing no conclusions about good or bad.

also, i'm not a believer that one can't get a feel for a mic regardless of the room or gear it records in or on. this notion that a mic will sound so radically different when in a different room to me is BS...it's not the mic...it's the room. i'll agree that the preamp will play a roll as will the speakers and the room your listening in. i listed the recording chain so if you have a Mackie with VLZ preamps then these mics will record your room with basically the same sonic character (assuming the mics have been manufactured with QA).

always having to put a disclaimer on any and every mic recording as Alan stated above is just BS to me.
 
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Sonixx, my equipment is entirely different but that C1 sounded about the same as the results I am getting with mine, a little heavy on the low end, dipped in the middle and crisp on the high end. I would have to EQ the results to roll off the low and bring up the middle.

The NTK actually sounded slightly better to me (here we go with others disagreeing) and I think sit in the mix better because it would not have interfered with the bass and other instruments in the 500 Hz and below area.

I have noticed that the C1 does not respond well in a live room. It shines in a dead room however. I know that sounds very general but my recording experiences bear this out. If I set this mike in an open room (my recording area has wood paneled walls) it comes off the way your recording did, heavy low end etc. But when I put it in a smaller space with foam or blankets i.e one of the bedrooms (This is home recording.com isn't it!) I get really good results in which the mids and highs pop out and the low end is not as boomy.

Take this or leave it. This has been my experience.
 
Great playing. They both sound good enough that the differences will be pretty subjective. I had fun trying some of the reverbs on my new fx with the tracks. I guess at half the price the C1 is a strong contender.
 
alanhyatt said:
Hmmmm...2 C1's for less than 1 NTK! :D :D :D
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I guess that's why it only sounded half as good, huh? ;)

Hey, this stuff is subjective.
When the C1 was up against several other mics in a side-by-side test, Alan posted a rant about how differences in rooms, positioning, gear, and yadda yadda yadda would make such a big difference, that the comparison isn't fair.
I agree with that for the most part, right down to the cables that were used. But here, he thinks that his mics somehow "won" over the NTK's, hence the smilies and price quotes.
That's called "flip-flopping" on your previously stated position.

My take?

The C1's sounded pretty good, but were a bit harsh in the upper end, which over-emphasized all the string noise (scraping) just like my old AKG C3000 does.

The NTK's were smooth and warm, like tube mics should be.... with a nice bottom end. The NTK's were louder overall, and the signal didn't fade as much as the C1's did on the quieter played parts. String noise was less harsh with the NTK's.

Like I said, this stuff is subjective. I don't really think the C1's are only "half as good", but remember... Alan engineered and sells the C1, so he is careful not to offer an opinion.... just where you can BUY his mic.
How nice. :rolleyes:

Anyway, using EQ, different preamps, and different instruments (especially acoustic guitars) are all going to make a big difference in how a recording will sound.

Also, most of the people here would probably use these mics as a dual-purpose mic... for instruments and vocals.
That's where the NTK really shines... it's an amazing mic for doing vocal work. It makes my "so so" voice sound like a seasoned pro.

I think the C1 is a darned good mic for the money.. one of the best "bang for your buck" mics in it's price range.

The NTK is also a fine microphone. It'll make a HUGE difference on digitally recorded vocals... adding warmth and depth.

BOTH of these mics are winners.
 
Nice playing.

Yeah, I've gotta agree, I liked the NTK better than the C1 in this demonstration. To me though the guitar came off sounding thin and boxy, although clean. I think it's the guitar.

Middleman is right, the C1 is real quick to get a 'room' sound. Even though my room is pretty well dampened it still shows up on the C1 if I play around with location and axis. Lately I've found a 6' excercise mat that's in 2x2 sections does the trick when I place it around the back of the mic with stands. Takes less than 30 seconds to set up and the C1 thinks it's in a booth. I'm happy. Now if I could only take the time to pull out the right guitar for the job.
 
hey thanks all...

i'm glad we're finally discussing experiences and uses instead of yelling at each other.

middleman...
i think i'll try your recommendation
 
What I find most appalling about this test is that one take came in at 3:10 and one came at 3:05. You gotta start practicing w/ a metronome Sonixx! ;)

I liked the NTK better as well. Warmer in the top end. There was a certain boxiness in the low mids I didn't like, sounded like a mic placement issure. THe C1 reminded me of my AKG C3000B. I'd like to compare those head to head sometime.

For those of you who know, how does the NTK stack up to the NT1000?

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com

p.s. nice chops, Sonixx!
 
hay Aaron...

yea...that boxiness is the guitar. i've recorded this guitar every which way...and dry it has a certain honkiness to it. cutting at 250Hz with a low Q generally makes the differnce. actually a Multiband compressor does the trick.

maybe next go around i'll borrow my friends Taylor big body and his Larrivee small body. the Larrivee small body is just excellent. very loud, full and even. beats my Takamine hands down.

meanwhile...i'll keep working on my timing...LOL...:)
 
Buck62 said:


I guess that's why it only sounded half as good, huh? ;)

But here, he thinks that his mics somehow "won" over the NTK's, hence the smilies and price quotes.
That's called "flip-flopping" on your previously stated position.

My take?
Click to expand...

Hey Buck,

Now why did you have to go and say that? Did you even read my post?

What I said was the test is against a mic twice the price, hence the "Hmmmm...2 C1's for less than 1 NTK . I did not say the C1 won, and I did not say go buy my mic at 8th Street...where are these words on my post? If you took it that way, your wrong. If you read it that way, you need glasses. Why not simply ask me what I meant instead of bagging me? :(

I made the same objections on this one as I do on any one of these things. I mentioned 8th street so you could see that the NTK was selling for twice the price...not to tell you where to buy my mic. Did I say...hey guys here is where to go and buy my mic... so all you did was bag on me when you should have just asked me because you were confused. If this was a car race and the other car had twice the horsepower...is that fair? So I let everyone know the other mic was twice as much...sue me :eek:

So you know, the smiles were there so no one "would" bash me for even saying that the C1's were half the price...not because I claim they won, because I did not claim anything other than the NTK is twice the price...AND THEY ARE.

There is no winner here because these tests do nothing but let you hear how a guy plays his guitar. Since each mic has a different proximity, all you heard was some mics spaced 13 inches apart and 30 inches in front of his Takamine Guitar both pointed at the 12th fret. What about 16" apart and 24" in front at the 10th fret using a Taylor of Martin? Or for that fact any other fret position, or coming from overhead. The results would be different... Not as far as who won, but the sound would be different, so what does this prove...NOTHING? Did you also read on my my post where I said well done Sonix, or did you forget about that as well?

I don't care how you label these tests, shootouts, recording, or listen to how I play thing...everyone on this group will view it as a shoot out or test or demo or whatever to make comparrisions...That's just the way it is.

Harvey...set these guys straight will you please? :D

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
 
Alan,you said absolutely nothing wrong in your first post.I almost posted a response to Buck but I figured that you're a big boy and could handle your own response.I don't understand how people think that they can twist what is said in a post when the original post is right there for everyone to read.I myself would expect the NTK to sound somewhat better,for twice the price it damn well should but whether it is worth twice the money is another thing entirely.All depends on your budget and personal taste I guess.

Also keep in mind that Sonixx posted right up front that this was not a test or comparison,just a recording done with two different mics.I would think that if it actually was a test that the SP tube mic would be used to compare to the NTK seeing it is in the same ballpark as the NTK.In a sample like this there are no winners or losers as the original intention of the post had absolutely nothing to do with one mic competeing with the other.If anyone feels otherwise reread Sonixx original post.
 
Randy,

I agree with you, I just could not see where Buck was coming from. How he got I won, and go buy my mic from that post was beyond me.

Alan Hyatt
 
Thanks for posting this. The C1 track kind of grated on me after a while. The NTK track was nice and smoove. I have no problem seeing why the NTK is twice the price of the C1.
 
Alan...

Saying something outright is one thing, implying it with carefully crafted words or gestures is another. The way you posted my quote is not the consecutive wording and could be taken out of context.
I posted a smilie ;) next to the first quote because I wasn't serious about that remark, and I even said that later in my post.

When you said "but you know how I feel about these"... you made a very broad statement that could be interpreted a number of ways.
"These" meaning what?
Your C1's? The NTK's? Mic comparisons? People's subjective opinions?
I took it that you were referring to your C1's, because those are your "babies", so to speak... and that would mean that you would obviously prefer THEM over other mics.
The reason I didn't ask you is because you then stated the price difference, knowing that this is a home-recording website, where many people have big dreams and small bank accounts... and then provided the name of a place where people can get this "bargain". Most people would call that spamming. I didn't do that... I "implied" it with carefully crafted words.
Sound familiar?

Look, I think the C1 is a really great mic for the money, and I even said that in my post. I may even purchase one in the near future, based on what I've heard so far... (if I can sell my C3000 without taking too much of a beating!). :eek:

I just take exception to your "nudging" folks toward your mic, that's all.
I'm not going on a tirade to trash you and shout the praises of Marshall mics, as was done to you previously. There are representatives of other gear-manufacturers here that are careful not to steer, nudge, or spam around here.
Tom Cram from dbx comes to mind.
He'll answer technical questions about dbx products, but has never (to my knowledge) tried to nudge anyone to buy dbx preamps or vocal processors. I have alot of respect for him for that.

Alan, I know that you're basically an engineering genius when it comes to mics, as is Harvey... and I've seen you post some really good, helpful information in the microphone section. Compared to you, I'm just a schmuck with an opinion when it comes to microphones.
But I'm a stubborn, yet fair-minded man from the South side of Chicago. I don't pull any punches when I have something to say.
Personally, I would like to see you post an opinion or two in the Recording Techniques section, or the MP3 Mixing Clinic, which would benefit someone's recordings. Imagine the insight that you could offer to guys that aren't mic'ing vocals and instruments properly. There's thirty-two forums on this BBS. Have you been to any others lately?
 
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