mono mic recordings in old blues/folk style

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simon_a

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hi

I'm relatively new to recording, and am using a Focusrite voicemaster channel with an AKG 3000 B large condenser mic - usual compresser/enhancer/eq/de-esser type setup... my question is:

I'd like to make recordings in the style of the old folk/blues records where a voice and guitar (sometimes additional instuments) all go into a single large condenser mic...


I realise that crystal hi-fi clarity does not go with the territory here, which is fine - I just want to record ME, strumming and singing, in a kind of way which sounds suitable with what I play which (if I were to vastly overestimate my abilities...) might sound like Nebraska-era Springsteen crossed with Steve Earle during an acoustic moment.

The recording environment is my spare room. I will be recording onto a Boss BR8 hard disk (don't laugh!), although the only effect I really see myself using is an old electro harmonix memory man echo... (I suppose ideally I'd like the production to sound a little like Springsteen's Nebraska album!)

I'd be most grateful if anyone could give me general tips on
mic placement, preamp setup etc... especially if anyone's familiar with the gear I've mentioned.

Many thanks,

Simon
 
If you want that really old basic sound, you might be better off with a dynamic or ribbon mic. Even an old carbon broadcast mic if you wanted to be really authentic! Otherwise, try putting your condenser a few feet away from you (assuming the room doesn't sound vile) and a bit higher than your head (assuming that you're seated).

You may need to rotate the mic to lose some highs, or you'll sound too modern. If you're using a PC or Mac, try Isotope's Vinyl plug in and turn off all the simulated scratches clisks etc and just use it as an EQ effect. It's a laugh anyway.

Ian

P.S. Sorry - didn't see the Boss reference. You'll have to use EQ then.
 
Thanks Ian!

I've just read something in the Voicemaster manual about some whatsit that gives a kind of saturation effect... what the hell, I'll just spin some dials, it's not like I'm paying for time in a studio.

Funny how easy it is to get hung up on the technical side of things... it almost seems to detract from the creative process for me - I suppose I feel more comfortable with the idea of churning out mono, one-take wonders.

Any other ideas are always gratefully received folks!

Simon

(I wonder if anybody makes single-space padded bags for rack gear - it seems silly to buy a big case just to keep the dust off and stop it scratching the furniture!
Incidentally, I find that notebook PC carry cases serve quite well for storing most digital multitrackers together with a couple of mics and cables. Strange but true.)
 
I would try placing the mic either-

About 6 inches in front of your face and a foot above. This will give you more vocal than guitar.

Try moving it out farther to get more guitar and less voice.

I wouldnt use compression while tracking because with the 2 sources it will be hard to set correctly before hand. You might want to add a sm57 or something to your voice in case you need to punch it up a little.
 
I'd be inclined to use a couple of mics and later mix to mono.
 
A quick suggestion maybe? If you want that old timey style sound say in the vein of Robert Johnson you can do the "corner loading" technique. This is where you are basically singing & playing into a corner of the room you're recording in! This adds a nice midrange to the whole sound I've found. One mic will do it all here! Maybe we should ask Harvey for his tips on this technique as I've only tried it a few times. Must admit it works pretty well too. Harvey, can you add wise words on this particular technique?:)
 
The corner trick was used to add a little more bottom end to mics that didn't have as much bottom end as the mics of today have. It also reduced the room nodes and helped isolate the signal in a noisy environment back then. It really isn't all that handy a trick these days. I'd sooner put some packing blankets on the walls in the corner and have the singer sing into that for a deader sound.

About a month or so ago, I recorded Jesse Kahn, son of guitar great Rolf Kahn and Barbara Dane. Jesse learned blues from Lightning Hopkins, Brownie and Sonny, and from most of the other blues greats.

I used one mic to record him playing and singing; a Marshall V77 tube mic, about forehead high, 18" out, and aimed towards his guitar, and on some other songs, I used an RCA77DX in about the same position. I got excellent results from both.

The V77 was used on him playing a dreadnaught Charvel acoustic, and it sounded pretty contemporary and very up front. I used the RCA when he switched to either his small Stella guitar or his resonator guitar and it gave the sound more of an old time flavor.

Even though the two mics gave me very dissimilar sounds for the final tracks, they each worked well for their assigned tasks. This was just for a demo, and for sales at clubs.

Had this been for a record label, I wouldn't have let him play the Charvel, I would have just kept him on his older small guitars and gone with the "older" RCA 77DX sound from start to finish.

For Frank Hamilton's folk album (he was one of the Weavers and a co-writer of "We Shall Overcome"), I used my Neumann TLM-103 on Frank's Martin parlor guitar, and a Coles 4038 ribbon mic on his vocals. The final sound was similar to what you would hear if Frank were just playing and singing in your living room.
 
Many, many thanks to everybody for the info - now I'm all fired up to start recording!

I guess the little I previously knew about this kind of recording wasn't too far off the mark - those old pictures of someone singing and playing with the mic a little in front and above their head etc...

So mono recordings are still made and released 80-odd years on?
I am pleased. So much stuff on the radio seems to be completely airbrushed into nonexistence these days... though would a 'Vintage' style recording of the Spice Girls be an improvement?


(by the way, did anyone see that really cool scene in Oh Brother Where Art Thou, in the radio station...? completely fake I know, but still cool!)

Simon
 
Id try recording as dry as I can, then use the vintager patch on my modulizer pro. I dont get to use it for much but some of the patches come in handy for wierd stuff.
 
i really relate to this thread..not so much geting the "old timey" sound but the recording one take, singing/playing at the same time idea..

I play acoustic guitar and sing solo....I do a variety of different styles from jazz ro funk to pop tunes...and i love to do the following for performance critique:

set up a marshall v67m about 12"-15" away...forehead height aimed slightly down. picking up more vocal than acoustic guitar. run this to track 1.

use a clip-on audio tech condenser clipped to the soundhole, track 2.

use my emg acs soundhole pickup, track 3.

blend the PU and the clip-on to taste. mix all to mono..or sometimes i'll pan the PU and the clip-on left and right for a subtle stereo affect.

I was doing only the v67m for a while this way..a little farther out to get an even blend...but i like blending the 2 additional sources.

I'll record a whole tape (tascam 424..15min each)...then continue on until i do the whole "gig"(about 4 tapes roughly 1 hour)...

master these down and listen to them in the car..whatever..picking up on things i want to improve on....

i'll also let some friends listen to get ideas...

I use no outboard gear except for an ART mp pre for phantom power on the v67m...all eq on the tascam flat...trim at 25-35%.

i'll eventually move this operation to ntrack so i can do the whole show at once.....and not have to stop and change tapes (alot of wires going on lol)

what i'm getting at (finally!! lol) is that if i wait a week or so...i'll listen to these tapes (sometimes i'll do a CD for fun also) and be amazed at the quality...simple but effective. they even sounded nice with just the v67m.....

i'm no engineer, but i enjoy listening to them. and other do also...

It really helps my playing/singing technique as i don't stop for mistakes...i only stop after the 3rd or 4th or 5th tune to change tapes...

what other gear would i benefit from in doing this?

I have a dbx mono compresser and a pedal eq..but i dont use them...

what is an enhancer or a de-esser ? (sorry for the ignorance)..

BTW..I'm constantly amazed at what one can learn on this forum....

peace...:)
 
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