Monitors: What's Important?

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Nate74

Nate74

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I sat down two weeks ago having decided my mixes weren't translating well and I needed new monitors. I turned to this board and was shocked to learn that room acoustics were to blame, not my old Yorkville YSM1s. Or at least acoustics were the primary problem.

8 homemade bass traps later and I'm floored by what it's done for the few mixes I've done since I put the traps up.

I'm now confident enough in my room to return to the original question of monitors. So again I began reading the seemingly countless monitor threads archived here.

In this reading I'm finding a lot of comments like, "Those are too bassy," "Those exagerate the highs," and "Those don't work well for Celtic Hip-Hop."

From these various comments I've deduced that you want the "flattest" response you can get so you have an accurate picture of what you're mixing (no brainger right?)

So the engineer in me devised this idea:

1) buy all the monitors you think you might want and one by one set them up in your room.

2) Run a wav file of various sine waves ranging from about 20Hz up to mayb 20 kHz

3) Hold an SPL meter at your listening location and see where the variations are for each frequency range -or-

3a) Use several mics all located at the listening location and record the response (dB) at the various frequencies to see what the variations in dB level are

Is this even possible to do? Would the results be telling enough to help with selection? Am I nuts? (don't need an answer for that one). Is there an easier, less time consuming way of getting this info? What else should one consider when looking for monitors?
 
Nate74 said:
I sat down two weeks ago having decided my mixes weren't translating well and I needed new monitors. I turned to this board and was shocked to learn that room acoustics were to blame, not my old Yorkville YSM1s. Or at least acoustics were the primary problem.

8 homemade bass traps later and I'm floored by what it's done for the few mixes I've done since I put the traps up.

I'm now confident enough in my room to return to the original question of monitors. So again I began reading the seemingly countless monitor threads archived here.

In this reading I'm finding a lot of comments like, "Those are too bassy," "Those exagerate the highs," and "Those don't work well for Celtic Hip-Hop."

From these various comments I've deduced that you want the "flattest" response you can get so you have an accurate picture of what you're mixing (no brainger right?)

So the engineer in me devised this idea:

1) buy all the monitors you think you might want and one by one set them up in your room.

2) Run a wav file of various sine waves ranging from about 20Hz up to mayb 20 kHz

3) Hold an SPL meter at your listening location and see where the variations are for each frequency range -or-

3a) Use several mics all located at the listening location and record the response (dB) at the various frequencies to see what the variations in dB level are

Is this even possible to do? Would the results be telling enough to help with selection? Am I nuts? (don't need an answer for that one). Is there an easier, less time consuming way of getting this info? What else should one consider when looking for monitors?
Click to expand...

You can try them out instead of buying them.. it might be a little cheaper too..

Also, any pictures of the bass traps or how you built them? I'm probably building some soon so I'd like to have some examples to work from. :D
 
Yeah, by "buy a bunch" I meant "buy a bunch with the idea of returning the ones you don't want." I have a GC and a Sam Ash close by so I have a fair number of options as far as trying them out... but my question remains: What do you look for?

As for the bass traps, I'm sure you'll find all the same posts I did if you do a bit of searching. Basically, I just cut some 3/4" Birch Plywood into 4" wide strips and made the frames the sizes I wanted. Dropped the insulation in and used black burlap and an electric staple guy to wrap them up.

If you have trouble with the plans, I could do up some scetchs but it's really just easy framing and a lot of staples.
 
Speakers are subjective - A room is not.

You can make the most of whatever monitors you have *IF* the room is accurate.

Speakers don't have to be "perfectly flat" - But they *DO* need to be able to reproduce the spectrum of what you're working with reasonably well... After that, it's a matter of "getting used to them" just like anything else. You *CAN* compensate for speakers that aren't "flat" - You can *NOT* compensate for an inaccurate space.
 
And sign waves only tell part of the story, what about transient response, what about phase relationship from tweeter to woofer and how that interacts with stereo imaging, what about off axis response, etc. Oh and that SPL meter you were gonna use, its calibrated for flat response? You would need a great omni mic, and something like SMART analyzing software to do it right, which wouldn't be right anyways for picking out speakers. SMART can tell you what your speakers are doing in your room, it can't tell you if the monitors are gonna make your mixes translate any better.
 
I used some commercially bought CD's and played them through my spekaers to get a feel for how a professional mix sounds , then I kinda used that a s a reference point for my own projects .
 
cortexx said:
I used some commercially bought CD's and played them through my spekaers to get a feel for how a professional mix sounds , then I kinda used that a s a reference point for my own projects .
Click to expand...

I used to have a professor in engineering school that warned us against "over engineering" the solution to problems. He used to say "sometimes it's easer to pick up the pencil off the floor than to design a machine to do it for you."

Cortexx, your suggestion makes me smile and think back to that Thermodynamics instructor. :)

SRR, your points are well received, if not entirely understood.

I think I'm going to check the return policy of the local stores and try out two or three sets of monitors this weekend.
 
what's important is being able to trust your monitors and being able to get results that translate consistently.

granted this is largely a function of the room as much as the monitors.....but this, above all other things, is what i hold as "most important".

this means finding a set of monitors that works for you and your mixing style in your room. and this means you have to use em--in your space.

i'd spend some time mixing (remixing) a song you're very familiar with. start with a clean slate. get a quick, rough mix and print it--then tweak until it's "right" to your ears and print that mix too. see how readily they translate and take note of what it takes to get the mixes to translate. are the mixes muddy? dark? bright? boxy? boomy? that sort of thing. repeat this for each set of monitors.

somewhere out of that you'll find a set of monitors that you "click" with. buy those. return the rest.


cheers,
wade
 
A Stewart World 250. It was in my small bass setup for a while and the only single space amp I own... no idea if it is OK for powering monitors.
 
So the YSM1's aren't translating well? or you don't like the sound?
 
Honestly, they're translating better now that I've got the bass traps up. But my thought was that now that I can actually trust my room (if not entirely, at least a great deal more than before the bass traps) I might want to upgrade the monitors.

I still like the sound, but since they're the only monitors I've ever owned... I guess some gear lust combined with the afore mentioned change in the room are my motivating factors.
 
Nate74 said:
I think I'm going to check the return policy of the local stores and try out two or three sets of monitors this weekend.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did--bought 3 models and returned two after a weekend of comparing them. I found the decision much easier after hearing them all in my own home, and yes, my room acoustics made quite a difference. One well reviewed model was so bassy (in my room) that I was reminded of how much our opinions here reflect our own rooms as well as ears.

J.
 
Most monitors should have Info regarding the frequency responce and/or come with a Frequency responce Graph showing the frequency responce curve...Useing this information you should be able to find out which monitors have the flattest responce and base you decition on this, Or find a few monitors that have the flatest frequenct responce and bring them home and test them in your studio and see which one sound best in your room....


Just a Thought!!
 
I wouldn't trust those graphs for the most part... With some, they're accurate. With others, they're what they want you to see.
 
Nate74,

I did the same thing as you - I treated my room (Thank you Glen @ GIK) and then upgraded my monitors - Now my new JBL LSR 4326's are clearly superior monitors (They should be at the price :rolleyes: ) but what I also realized is just how good my old YSM1's really were - To my ears these were/are the monitor equivalent of the RNC for compressors - terrific for the price and in most cases you don't even need the "qualifier".
 
There's a set of Mackie 824's at a local 2nd hand guitar shop I frequent. I didn't make it by there today in time, but I spoke with the owner and he said he'll give me 24 hours to check them out. I'm also going to get a set of KRK V8s and possible the Event TSR8's...

The guys at Guitar Center were such A-Holes on the phone when I called to inquire about their return policy, I won't be purchasing anything from them :mad: But at least my local Sam Ash has everything I'm interested in.

If after all this I decide to stick with the YSM1s... I'll feel like quite the idiot :rolleyes:
 
Nate74 said:
There's a set of Mackie 824's at a local 2nd hand guitar shop I frequent. I didn't make it by there today in time, but I spoke with the owner and he said he'll give me 24 hours to check them out. I'm also going to get a set of KRK V8s and possible the Event TSR8's...

The guys at Guitar Center were such A-Holes on the phone when I called to inquire about their return policy, I won't be purchasing anything from them :mad: But at least my local Sam Ash has everything I'm interested in.

If after all this I decide to stick with the YSM1s... I'll feel like quite the idiot :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You might as well give it a shot and find out. My Art SLM1's (supposed rebadged YSM1's) don't sound particularly good, in my opinion, but they do translate good and that's all I really need for now (definitely good bang for the buck). I'm not real fond of the ragged upper mids and I'd like to be able to hear more depth. I'm curious to know what you think about your YSM1's and what improved after treating your room. What are you hoping to get out of your new monitors?
 
TravisinFlorida said:
I'm curious to know what you think about your YSM1's and what improved after treating your room. What are you hoping to get out of your new monitors?
Click to expand...

My mixes were translating with really heavy bass; kick drums sounded boomy and just way too loud and the bass guitar was usually boomy as well and again, too loud. At first I thought it was because of the YSM1's small drivers, but after doing loads of research I turned to the bass traps.

I've now done a handful of mixes on songs I'm familiar with and the bass problems seems to be solved. As I listen to the tracks on the other sound systems around the house I'm really happy with how they sound. The kick drum sounds nice and tight, not boomy at all and the overall bass balance is what I'm expecting. In short, they mixes sound like they sound in the studio.

But I still can't help but think that with larger drivers I could do an even better job getting everything balanced.

Also, I sort of get the feeling that I don't know what I don't know. There's no way for me to know what I'm missing, since I'm missing it; ya know?
 
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