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kylen
New member
SonicAlbert - what is the "dim" button specifically? I haven't heard that one - I'll trade you a sample of my vacuum cleaner if you tell me!SonicAlbert said:
Thanks, Kyle
Thanks, Kyle
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
Actually, I got a CD of a vacuum cleaner meant to help calm my infant daughter. Works like a charm!kylen said:SonicAlbert - what is the "dim" button specifically? I haven't heard that one - I'll trade you a sample of my vacuum cleaner if you tell me!
Thanks, Kyle
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Since buying my 15-year-old daughter an iPod for Xmas, she has listened to earbuds almost exclusively. She only listens to music through speakers if she's in the car, or if she's sitting at the computer listening through those hi-quality computer speakers while downloading MP3s via Livewire.Harvey Gerst said:
I can remember being told during the days before FM radio (yes, I am dating myself
) that sound engineers mixed popular music to be optimized for AM car radios and those excellent 6X9 dashboard speakers. I guess that explains why a lot of pop music from that era doesn't sound any better on a decent stereo than it did in my dad's 1964 Rambler Ambassador station wagon. 
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kylen
New member
Oops, I should have mixed a question in with a joke, sorry to confuse... SonicAlbert whats the "dim" thing you mentioned?
D
dawg2k5
New member
Harvey Gerst said:
Agreed.
Monitors are better for mixing but...a good engineer can mix with great results, on either headphones or monitors.
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kylen
New member
Is that you? If so - I'll be back...maybe a differnt thread - whichever is mo' propriate...dawg2k5 said:
fraserhutch
Flypaper for freaks
dawg2k5 said:
Next you'll be saying a good engineer can can mix with great results with earplugs in and a full ear of wax.
F
fateswebb
New member
some people forget this is HOME recording dot com.
dude you can mix with your headphones, just before you consider it final, play it on all kinds of different types of speakers you can find.
here is the problem with doing it on headphones.
BASS waves (you know in the air the waves) are actually pretty large, they cannot be properly recreated by headphones, also even if the headphones could recreate them they are too close to your head, and the wav passes you by before it gets to you.
so you will mix it on your headphones and you might play it back and you cant hear the vocals because the bass is drowndin it out.
however as long as you check you mix on a GOOD system with flat frequency response you can do what you want.
next day when the kids arent sleepin play it on differnt systems and check your mix, you might be scared of how bad it sounds, you might be amazed since it sounds awesome on that set.
I would get a nice set of speakers with a subwoofer, and a set of headphones, and also listen on all my other availabe sets before deciding if it is good.
however this being HOME recording dot com, then your situation may not alwyas afford the best monitors. so you do with what you got.
FatesWebb
dude you can mix with your headphones, just before you consider it final, play it on all kinds of different types of speakers you can find.
here is the problem with doing it on headphones.
BASS waves (you know in the air the waves) are actually pretty large, they cannot be properly recreated by headphones, also even if the headphones could recreate them they are too close to your head, and the wav passes you by before it gets to you.
so you will mix it on your headphones and you might play it back and you cant hear the vocals because the bass is drowndin it out.
however as long as you check you mix on a GOOD system with flat frequency response you can do what you want.
next day when the kids arent sleepin play it on differnt systems and check your mix, you might be scared of how bad it sounds, you might be amazed since it sounds awesome on that set.
I would get a nice set of speakers with a subwoofer, and a set of headphones, and also listen on all my other availabe sets before deciding if it is good.
however this being HOME recording dot com, then your situation may not alwyas afford the best monitors. so you do with what you got.
FatesWebb
CoolCat
Well-known member
reinventing it all
proofs in the pudding....you do your own test, Headphones vs Monitor mix..
if you don't like the final results then change it...
you could also try neither! NO Nearfields & NO Headphones!!
we're the CEO Exec's of our own HR studios!!! can you dig it?
now if i could just get Arthur Andersen to be my CPA!!,
and do like they did for ENRON,
I could rip-off, i mean "work with" the Teachers Associations Retirement Fund for 100millions$$$$$ by convincing them to invest in me,
the Firefighters Retirement pension, the disabled kids of America Financial fund
steal their m.. err...i mean help them out by investing in my studio...
go International too! we could screw..um i mean.. Korea could be fk'd for Billions!!..er, uh i mean they could be investors too....
I could be soooo rich$$ enough for 3000 sets of headphones just for me!
its just a dream. wow
proofs in the pudding....you do your own test, Headphones vs Monitor mix..
if you don't like the final results then change it...
you could also try neither! NO Nearfields & NO Headphones!!
we're the CEO Exec's of our own HR studios!!! can you dig it?
now if i could just get Arthur Andersen to be my CPA!!,
and do like they did for ENRON,
I could rip-off, i mean "work with" the Teachers Associations Retirement Fund for 100millions$$$$$ by convincing them to invest in me,
the Firefighters Retirement pension, the disabled kids of America Financial fund
steal their m.. err...i mean help them out by investing in my studio...
go International too! we could screw..um i mean.. Korea could be fk'd for Billions!!..er, uh i mean they could be investors too....
I could be soooo rich$$ enough for 3000 sets of headphones just for me!
its just a dream. wow
H
hoursonend
Member
Mo-Kay said:
My minidisk walkman has two headphone outputs
Blue Bear Sound
New member
So what? Bad advice is bad advice....... so we should give bad advice just becuase this is HOME RECORDING?????fateswebb said:
What a complete load of bullshit......dawg2k5 said:
A good engineer uses the right tools for the job.... period.
distortedrumble
all up in yo grill!
dawg2k5 said:
aight...in that way of thinking....i need the AC in my car fixed....my tools for the job are a hammer and a butterknife...now let me find an A.S.E. Certified mechanic and see what he can do!
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
kylen said:
kylen, sorry to take so long to respond, I've been away for a few days.
The "dim" button I'm referring to is on my Presonus Central Station, and I have seen it elsewhere as well. Basically what it does is dim the audio by a certain amount when you press it. Like a talkback without the talkback. I use it to quickly reduce the volume level to whisper soft without having to adjust the master volume control.
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Samantha C.
New member
SonicAlbert said:
The Mackie Bigknob has that as well (which I have). It is a really great feature. As is the sum to mono and talkback buttons - although I wish you had an option whether or not to leave talkback on with out holding the button.
Is that the case with the Central Station as well Albert?
Samantha
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K-dub
Well-known member
...someone said it earlier -- mixes that sound great through monitors should sound great through headphones? IMO that's absolutely right, and monitors do (I believe) get to that "great mix" spot much quicker than attempting to do it on phones alone. Actually great mixes should sound really good pretty much no matter what you listen to them through ... for that's what makes it a great mix.
Although I believe great mixes can be achieved on headphones ... I also believe headphones can be much more deceptive ... which is the main reason anything done on them needs to be backchecked on multiple playback systems for close listening analysis.
Frankly, I use headphones as primary references on some occasions (I ALWAYS do check mixes on phones), but it's rare that said mix comes "out of the box" in perfect shape. It might put me in the right neighborhood, as I'm very intimate w/ how things should sound through my phones, but I would never trust a phones mix implicitly ... because of the deception I've experienced in the past.
Harvey also stated that he's paying a bit more attention to headphone mixes, trying to make the delivery more interesting and exciting -- for headphones are becoming the predominant channel through which music is heard. I think that's very true. Today's mixes have GOT to sound good through phones ... and there are all sorts of interesting ear candy things that can be done in a mix with headphones that would never translate as well through open air monitors. It's just the nature of the delivery system. How many times, growing up, did you listen to something through headphones ... where the artist/engineer paid attention to the headphone mix --- and you heard a song you'd heard a million times before sound completely wonderfully different ... because the headphones opened up a whole new sonic world/approach to the recording -- and you never heard it listening to it originally through speakers?
I don't believe mixing through headphones is either "wrong" or "impossible". I do believe it's harder to get it right. But you can always throw two things at most problems: "time" and "money". If you have a dearth of one, but plenty of the other, either will usually eventually get you where you want to be.
Best,
Kev.
Although I believe great mixes can be achieved on headphones ... I also believe headphones can be much more deceptive ... which is the main reason anything done on them needs to be backchecked on multiple playback systems for close listening analysis.
Frankly, I use headphones as primary references on some occasions (I ALWAYS do check mixes on phones), but it's rare that said mix comes "out of the box" in perfect shape. It might put me in the right neighborhood, as I'm very intimate w/ how things should sound through my phones, but I would never trust a phones mix implicitly ... because of the deception I've experienced in the past.
Harvey also stated that he's paying a bit more attention to headphone mixes, trying to make the delivery more interesting and exciting -- for headphones are becoming the predominant channel through which music is heard. I think that's very true. Today's mixes have GOT to sound good through phones ... and there are all sorts of interesting ear candy things that can be done in a mix with headphones that would never translate as well through open air monitors. It's just the nature of the delivery system. How many times, growing up, did you listen to something through headphones ... where the artist/engineer paid attention to the headphone mix --- and you heard a song you'd heard a million times before sound completely wonderfully different ... because the headphones opened up a whole new sonic world/approach to the recording -- and you never heard it listening to it originally through speakers?
I don't believe mixing through headphones is either "wrong" or "impossible". I do believe it's harder to get it right. But you can always throw two things at most problems: "time" and "money". If you have a dearth of one, but plenty of the other, either will usually eventually get you where you want to be.
Best,
Kev.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I couldn't agree more - it's the same on the Presonus TB..... what is it with these manufacturer's and "non-sticky" TB buttons!?!?!?Samantha C. said:
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Samantha C. said:
Yes, it is. You can use a footpedal to engage the talkback, which makes it easier to hold it for a while. Although the footpedal is not "sticky" either.
I haven't had a need for the talkback yet, but a sticky talkback button is a good thing. Something like if you press it quickly twice it holds, or if you hold it longer than 2 seconds it holds. That would be great, but as I said talkback is the least used feature on my Central Station, so this is not an issue for me right now.
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kylen
New member
Ok thanks SonicAlbert - that makes sense. I do the same thing manually with the master volume.SonicAlbert said:
I'm learning to listen and balance stuff at "dim" type of db SPL levels. There is an art to low level monitoring, switching into headphones, listening in slightly louder nearfield and finalizing that. My 85dB SPLC balancing days are over ('scuze me Mr. Katz) I'm set up for max nearfield monitoring at 72db SPLC and "dim" somewhere in the 60db range I'm guessing. I think it's possible to mix/balance down there - therefore it is - I have no other options anyway.
There is one thing for certain though - I just can't get the balance right in phones - they can tell me when it's wrong, but they can't tell me when it's right - if you know what I mean...maybe it's just me. I'll keep hacking away but I've been doing this for a while now - this is my assessment. I wish it were easy to do in phones...
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
I don't do a lot of mixing at the whisper levels, but I do use those low levels to check for the relative balances between parts. Sometimes, when I drop the levels a part will disappear, meaning it needs to be brought up or panned differently. I'll adjust at the low levels and then go back up to normal.
However, I've found it crucial to also check for short periods at blast levels too. Things can really pop out at those levels and need to be reined in.
But really, one of the most useful tools is to do the mono check. I find that amazingly informative. For some reason, if it's working in mono, the mix is usually almost there as far as stereo too.
I feel the Central Station has been one of the best tools I've bought in a long time. It has made a direct impact on my work practices and capabilities. Of course, probably any good speaker switcher/console section would do roughly the same, but having the ability to easily switch between speakers, in and out of mono, dim, etc., is just great. The source switching is another feature that I use all the time, and having the extra set of converters is also very handy.
However, I've found it crucial to also check for short periods at blast levels too. Things can really pop out at those levels and need to be reined in.
But really, one of the most useful tools is to do the mono check. I find that amazingly informative. For some reason, if it's working in mono, the mix is usually almost there as far as stereo too.
I feel the Central Station has been one of the best tools I've bought in a long time. It has made a direct impact on my work practices and capabilities. Of course, probably any good speaker switcher/console section would do roughly the same, but having the ability to easily switch between speakers, in and out of mono, dim, etc., is just great. The source switching is another feature that I use all the time, and having the extra set of converters is also very handy.