Monitors Phasing

[Micter]

I have two sets of monitors and when I try to use both sets simultainiously I'm getting some phase cancellation. Any ideas?

 

[bennychico11]

what's the reason you're using them both at the same time?

could be how they are positioned, could be how they are wired.

 

[Micter]

I don't know why I want to use them both at the same time I just noticed they phase when I do. As far as how they are wired, I come out of my digi002 (main outs) into my mixer out of the mixer into two power amps then to each set of speakers. I have tried a few different positions and that doesn't seem to change anything. I have tried side by side, stacked with one set on it's side, and with a bit more separation. Anyway, it's good to see you here Benny. You are always a great help.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Make sure you're not accidentally reversing polarity in your cabling somewhere. Especially if you're wire clipping or wirewrapping off the back of your amps; make sure you're running positive to tip and negative to sleeve.

Also - especially if you're close-monitoring in a nearfield type of setup - try to set up the loudspeakers so that the HF drivers (tweeters) are aligned to be equidistant from your head. If one right-side tweeter is a few inches further from your head than the other in a situation like that, it can cause interference.

Finally, it may be possible in a nearfield type of setup that you are getting first reflections off your desk or other surface that are timed different because of the difference in speaker position.

Sticking with one set of monitors would certainly make things easier .

G.

 

[Micter]

Make sure you're not accidentally reversing polarity in your cabling somewhere. Especially if you're wire clipping or wirewrapping off the back of your amps; make sure you're running positive to tip and negative to sleeve.

Also - especially if you're close-monitoring in a nearfield type of setup - try to set up the loudspeakers so that the HF drivers (tweeters) are aligned to be equidistant from your head. If one right-side tweeter is a few inches further from your head than the other in a situation like that, it can cause interference.

Finally, it may be possible in a nearfield type of setup that you are getting first reflections off your desk or other surface that are timed different because of the difference in speaker position.

Sticking with one set of monitors would certainly make things easier .

G.

The first thing I did was to check the wiring. The equal distance thing was the second thing I thought of. Lastley, I get the distict feeling I'm chasing my tail. I can switch back and forth to check my mixes instead of trying to use both sets simultainiously. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[NYMorningstar]

My guess is one of the speaker sets is wired out of phase. This is done sometimes in a compound push-pull (Isobaric) configuration using Dual Driver Sub-Woofers to produce extremely deep, powerful bass from a reasonably compact cabinet.

Try another set of speakers and find out which is out of phase and go from there.

 

[Micter]

My guess is one of the speaker sets is wired out of phase. This is done sometimes in a compound push-pull (Isobaric) configuration using Dual Driver Sub-Woofers to produce extremely deep, powerful bass from a reasonably compact cabinet.

Try another set of speakers and find out which is out of phase and go from there.

Ahhh, I hadn't thought of that. I'll try swapping the polarity on one set.

 

[xstatic]

Also, many speakers now incorporate time and phase aligning into their passive and active crossovers in order to keep the multiple drivers tighter. This process may also be delaying your input signal from the output just enough that on its own it sounds great, but paired up with something else, it doesn't. Typically, moving the speaker itself should net a more usable result, but if one of the two sets is time and phase aligned, and the other isn't, you may never be able to get the two to play nice together. If this is true, no matter how you relocate them, you will always either have all the woofers in phase, and half the tweeters out, or vice versa.

 

[boingoman]

Also, many speakers now incorporate time and phase aligning into their passive and active crossovers in order to keep the multiple drivers tighter. This process may also be delaying your input signal from the output just enough that on its own it sounds great, but paired up with something else, it doesn't. Typically, moving the speaker itself should net a more usable result, but if one of the two sets is time and phase aligned, and the other isn't, you may never be able to get the two to play nice together. If this is true, no matter how you relocate them, you will always either have all the woofers in phase, and half the tweeters out, or vice versa.

Good point. Also different size drivers can cause this, for instance a 6" and an 8" woofer playing together can cause this, as can different size tweeters. They will have different phase characteristics. Just mixing brands can cause this, same size or not, time-aligned or not.

 

[Micter]

Also, many speakers now incorporate time and phase aligning into their passive and active crossovers in order to keep the multiple drivers tighter. This process may also be delaying your input signal from the output just enough that on its own it sounds great, but paired up with something else, it doesn't. Typically, moving the speaker itself should net a more usable result, but if one of the two sets is time and phase aligned, and the other isn't, you may never be able to get the two to play nice together. If this is true, no matter how you relocate them, you will always either have all the woofers in phase, and half the tweeters out, or vice versa.

Actually it's the woofers that are cancelling. Both are passive monitors but I have resolved that these things don't like each other and I can deal with using them one set at a time.

 

[xstatic]

passive just means that they are unpowered. In the case of the monitors you are using, there is a crossover internally in the speaker. That crossover may be making changes to the woofer to time align it to the tweeter. In this case, lining up your spekers may put the tweeters in phase, but leave the woofers out of phase. Phase aligning the woofers though will place the tweeters out of phase. This is just the simple side of things without even getting into cabinet volumes, output charts, frequency building and dropping of individual drivers and brands etc...

 

[Micter]

passive just means that they are unpowered. In the case of the monitors you are using, there is a crossover internally in the speaker. That crossover may be making changes to the woofer to time align it to the tweeter. In this case, lining up your spekers may put the tweeters in phase, but leave the woofers out of phase. Phase aligning the woofers though will place the tweeters out of phase. This is just the simple side of things without even getting into cabinet volumes, output charts, frequency building and dropping of individual drivers and brands etc...

I misread what you were trying to say. I get ya now.

 

[noisewreck]

I can deal with using them one set at a time.

Well, if you're using them to check your mixes and to mix, that's how you SHOULD use them as if you have both sets on, you'd not get an accurate representation, phasing issues or not.

 

[Micter]

Well, if you're using them to check your mixes and to mix, that's how you SHOULD use them as if you have both sets on, you'd not get an accurate representation, phasing issues or not.

Ya I know that's how I should mix but listening back is a different story.