Monitoring Options

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Aren

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HI,

Here's a question the purists amongst you wouldn't like very much...
I am currently using my Aiwa home stereo system for monitoring, which is probobly the most "non-flat" system ever. It's bass enhancing even when the EQ is set totally flat and all "T-Bass" etc. are off.
I have two other options for monitoring (Real near-field monitors are totally out of the question now-a-days. The local price for these things is horrific). One option is to buy fairly decent computer speakers (2 Sattelites and a sub-woofer, or something of a sort), and then other option is to fix an old pair of Sony bookshelf-style speakers (i.e., replacing the speaker elements. 1 6" midrange and a 1.5" tweeter, if my memory serves me correctly), and use them with the stereo reciever that came with it.

Which of these two are the "lesser evil"?


Thanks,

Oren
 
I'd say the sony rebuild, but both are gonna take some learnin.....those computer speaks can actually be as bad as the aiwa or worse.....some can do the job, but you'll be paying pretty high for those. The worst computer speaker "system" you can buy is the cheap ass altec lansing with the fixed subwoofer and two satellites. No bass control, so everything is mondo sloppy in the low end. If you do go with computer speakers, at least pay enough where you'll have a separate subwoofer control.

Peace and chicken grease,
Mike
 
you'd be better off buying some very cheap nearfields from somewhere, im sure you can find something.
 
Is it just a problem with imports from the USA? Yorkvilles are made in Canada, maybe their not so expensive?

Also there are Hi-fi speakers made in Europe that would work well. You can even buy kits to reduce the cost. I can suggest some if you want. Just let me know what $ range.

barefoot
 
IMO, I don't think I'd try either of your options.. I would save for monitors, and in the meantime use your eq to compensate for the non-flat frequency response. Record a sample of your music through eq to tape and listen to it in as many different sources as possible, taking note of what eq adjustments could improve the sound.. It takes quite a bit of trial and error, but in the end you will have a somewhat decent eq setting that you can record through that will act as a filter for the compensating frequencies of your system. Granted, you won't get the best results, but it is something you can do until you can get some decent nearfields..

Cy
 
you can get some Spirit monitors for very cheap at the moment, absolute zeros are about £120. i know they're not good monitors, but im just giving the original poster the prices. monitor one's by alesis are about £230 over in the uk.

the better monitors you get, the more detail and accurate your mixes should become. ive got some serious monitors like genelecs and quested, and you can really hear the difference when you play a track through them. all of a sudden all this extra detail comes out. you will notice a difference when you switch from a hi-fi setup to a pair of monitors. bear in mind though, with the monitors, you will need to buy a flat power amp aswell. i wouldn't trust the hi-fi amp, even ifyou set everything on flat.
 
This is a perennial debate, but there is Hi-fi equipment that performs outstandingly with respect to professional criteria. But you need to do your homework and be very selective. I’d suggest this for any equipment you buy, professional or not.

In fact, some Hi-fi amplifiers have such extraordinary designs and specs that all you can say about them is that they are Overkill. The outrageous cost of their designs often don’t warrant the marginal improvement in linearity over good professional models.

ALL loudspeakers have such serious deficits that none can be considered even remotely overkill in their linearity.

barefoot

Btw, Quested uses Dynaudio midranges and tweeters. Dynaudio is a Hi-fi component manufacturer.
 
barefoot,

they may be hifi equiptment that performs outstandlingy, but at what cost?!

aren, i think you should wait a while, till you can afford monitors. learn your speakers in the mean time, and check your mixes in a variety of enviroments.
 
LongWaveStudio said:
Dynaudio make monitors dont they.
Click to expand...

Yes, Dynaudio makes monitors, but they have been making Hi-fi speakers for more than twice as many years. Plus, all of the Dynaudio drivers used in pro monitors came out first in Hi-fi products. The same is true for the drivers used in these pro monitors:

Alesis Monitor 1 - Axon T1 and 6S3
Event 20/20 - Vifa D27TG and P21WO
KRK 7000B - Focal TK90 and 7K4412
Mackie - appear to be Vifa D25AG and P21WO

All these drivers were first designed for, and appeared in Hi-fi speakers.

Interestingly, the drivers I just mentioned are at least two generations old. They are not state of the art. The latest generation most linear drivers are, as far as I can see, only available in Hi-fi speakers. (Or my custom monitors :))

Returning to the Dynaudio example, I challenge anyone to show me a fundamental difference in components, circuit topography, or box design between their pro monitors and their Hi-fi speakers. There are none. The only differences result from aesthetic considerations. These aesthetic considerations are part of the reason why Hi-fi speakers tend to be more expensive.

barefoot
 
so effectivaly, are you saying that the quested far fields which i paid several thousand pounds for (and i believe abbey road have the same), i could have just bought some hi-fi speakers? so some hi-fi speakers have 20-20 response??hmm. they may make the drivers, i mean, someone's gotta make the drivers, i dont think that a hi-fi can perform just as well as my genelecs or questeds.
 
The goal of pro monitors should be linearity and controlled dispersion. The goal of Hi-fi speakers is good sound. I would say in the majority of cases Hi-fi designers choose linearity and controlled dispersion as the paths to good sound. So, for the most part, the only difference between Hi-fi and pro speakers is how they look and how they are marketed.

Marketing obviously has no influence on performance, but looks can. The large baffles and front firing drivers and ports of the Genelecs and Quested have advantages for studio setups. This design would probably not go over well with consumers interested in putting them into their living rooms. Otherwise, yes, there are Hi-fi speakers which can meet or exceed the linearity of your Genelec or Quested main monitors. They are very exotic and expensive. But, for the average Homerecorder, Genelecs and Quested are also very exotic and expensive.

You bought outstanding speakers which are well configured for your purposes. But this doesn't mean that there are no consumer oriented speakers with the same or better capabilities. They just may not easily lend themselves to normal studio installation.

barefoot

Ps - Be careful when you say "response". This implies 'frequency response' which is only one of many measures of linearity.
 
how much does one pay for hi-fi speakers of say the standard of genelecs? lets say the smaller 1029a's.
 
That will be tough to find a comparable Hi-fi system to the 1029a's. Active speakers are not as common in Hi-fi, but I'll look around. I can probably find a quicker comparison with one of the Quested passive systems.

barefoot
 
are we talking about farfield quested's now?

so these hi-fi's reproduce the low end detail just as well as a pro monitor??

id be interested in hearing what's the hifi version of the 1029's....
 
Let me butt into your thread about the debate between hi fi speakers and pro monitors in terms of comparisons and contrasts.In general,hi fi speakers at all levels aren't really flat.
Its all a matter of catering to peoples tastes.The Fletcher-Munson curve dictates human ear sensitivity, so loudness switches and bass-heavy speaker designs abound.The few "audiophile" designs are good and nicely expensive and don't make a damn bit of impact in the market.
So the arguement is twofold,theoretically,hi fi gear can equal the fidelity of audiophile gear IN CERTAIN LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES,but in the general sense is likely to be vastly inferior almost all the time.

Tom
 
I am very interested in finding out what barefoot can find that would compete with those Genelec's. Not for the sake of arguing, just to see if one can. I actually have no doubt that a consumer grade speaker system for a comparable price can be found that would actually work better!

But then again, I am not a 1029a's fan anyway. Found them to be FAR to forgiving when used for mastering. I did some push mixes through some once, and when I played the CD through other systems, I found a very suprising amount of low mids present in the mix. The room I mixed in was very well designed, so I will discount any room effects immediately. I found this to be the case with 1029a's is three different "tuned" rooms I have used them in.

Anyway, that is just a side note....:)

Ed
 
Ok, here is one example of a Hi-fi system I am confident can stand up to the very best professional monitors on all counts.

It's a satellite and sub combo from JMlab. JMlab is the parent company of Focal whose drivers are easily recognizable in KRK monitors. The Utopia line uses Focal's most advanced and linear drivers.

The Mini Utopia is a 2-way "monitor" (in the language of Hi-fi) speaker arrangement with two 6 1/2" woofers and a 3/4" tweeter. They go for about $7000 a pair.
http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/home/utopia/u_mini.htm

The Sub Utopia II is a dual 15" active subwoofer. They go for about $6000 each.
http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/home/utopia/u_sub.htm

So that's $7000 for the satelites, another $5000 for 2 Bryston 4B-ST's to bi-amp them, $12,000 for 2 subs, plus say $2000 for mounting baffles, cables, etc. Approximately $26,000 and I would not hesitate to compare them to the Quested HM412's which I believe sell for over $30k.

I wasn't expecting to come up with an off the shelf Hi-fi system that was actually cheaper than its pro counterpart, but there it is.

Sorry for the "pie-in-the-sky" comparison, but no compromise designs are the kind I know best. This at least gives you an idea of how the top of the line compare.
[For $30k or so I have some ultra low distortion designs (<0.3% broadband THD is ultra low for speakers!) which will leave even the Utopia's in the dust :).]

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As far as the 1029a's, I don't think I'm going to find a Hi-fi system in the same class. Hi-fi manufactures just don't build tiny powered systems like that - probably for good reason. I haven't heard the 1029a's, but looking at their specs they don't appear to be exceptionally high linearity devices.

Ed,
The very small baffle of the 1029a would push the -3dB center of the "baffle step" (diffraction loss) to higher frequencies. If you're accustomed to monitoring on larger near fields you might overcompensate for this. Compared to 'normal' sized midfields the 1029a would have a reduced anechoic response right around the lower midrange like you described.

barefoot
 
Are there any kit speakers or blueprints available for monitors? I've looked around, but all I can find is HI FI kits. If I cound build a decent pair myself for low $$$'s, I'd be sooooo happy.

Denis
 
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