Monitor Questions

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Bassman2003

New member
Hello,

I am using a Firewire 410 and a pair of Wharfdale Diamond 8.2 monitors.

I am noticing a lack of low frequencies with my setup.

My work is with video production and often when I mix something it comes out too bass heavy when played back on a television.

So I am over-compensating with low frequencies. I also notice to make listening CDs sound good I need to run up the low end on the EQ which is causing a bit of distortion on some tracks.

So, what do you think I need, better nearfields or add a sub to get the full range represented?

Thanks for your help.
 
I think that for video production a sub should be added. To make your monitoring closer to the final listener environment. My guess.

Cheerz!!!
 
Hey, over from the other forum!

Sorry for my multiple posts.

I am trying to figure out if I can run a sub from the firewire 410. I don't think there is a crossover to adjust.

So I would not be eliminating the low frequencies from going to the nearfield monitors.
 
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I'm using a 15" Tannoy sub with a pair of KRK V4's. The crossover is built into the Sub. I had a Yorkville 12" that only passed full range so a separate crossover would be needed depending on how you set up the sub. If your monitors only go down to 60Hz and you set your sub for 60 and below you are basically doing the same thing a crossover would do.

Still I like the performance of the Tannoy better than the Yorkville.

Don
 
If your space is almost ridiculously accurate and consistent, then a sub might be the answer. If not, it's probably the fact that it's not (accurate and consistent) now - and adding a sub will only make things worse.
 
Hello,

I have attached three photos of my workspace.

Office-1.jpg

Office-2.jpg

Office-3.jpg


It sounds like the "corner" setup is not ideal for bass tones, but this is how I have to use the space.

The Wharfedale Diamond 8.2's say they have a Usable Frequency Range of 45Hz-24kHz but as I stated, I tend to overcompensate the mix on the low end.

Also when listening to CDs in Windows Media Player pushing up the low end of the EQ sounds best which leads to some distortion on certain tracks.

Any input on if I can modify my space before looking at different speakers would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help!
 
The first thing I would do is look into some acoustic treatments. There is a lot of info on this forum on the subject. Do some searches on bass traps.
 
I have been reading about room treatments, but I don't know how much I can do to my room. The space is just crowded.

The corner behind me is not exposed as an angle due to equipment.

When I move around the room while music is playing, the bass amount is prety constant outside of a few areas:

Along the wall behind the speakers, the open corner in one of the photos has more bass response when I lean my head in.

Underneath the desk has a lot of low end as well.

I am not unhappy with the quality of sound I am getting from these speakers or want to spend money, but if I am limited by how much I can alter my room, what is my best play here?

Thanks
 
Corners are horrific places to be - Walls are horrific places to have monitors.

Personally, I'm surprised that your mixes are bass heavy set up like that... Which leads me to think you're just in a really bad null point.

Short of a fairly extreme application of trapping and at least getting in a reasonable spot in the room, the last thing I'd think about at this point is adding a sub...
 
You may have already read up on this stuff, but for a quick primer on mixing room layout and acoustics, click here.

But you are limited in just how much of that advice you can take literally because of your room. I agree with John that you may be sitting in a bass null, which you can't do much about without a physical re-arrangement that moves your listening position, and at least some bass trapping to help smooth the nulls.

There is also another possibility to consider, and one that may be asier for you to deal with; you may also be over-emphasizing the bass because of a large amount of high-frequency reflection; you have a lot of bare walls and a big (proportional to the room) window which may be trowing so much HF back at you that you feel you need to boost the bass to compensate.

You might want to try moving a mirror around the room and find the spots on your walls where you can see your monitors in the mirror when sitting at your listening position. At those locations, when possible, tack up a decent HF diffuser or absorber to help deaden the reflections a bit. No egg crates or cheap bed foam, that stuff is next to useless. There's plenty of info on the net, including the Studio Building and Display forum on this BBS for easy and inexpensive difussor/absorber designs that actually work.

And while you're at it, pull your speakers as far away from their backing walls as you can - even a few inches may help - and throw a full-spectrum trap in the corner behind your computer monitor.

G.
 
I had a similar problem with bass and it never ended 'til I made a subwoofer setup. The crossover frequency is crucial and most factory prepared subs have a crossover frequency that is too high. It needs to be low enough that the sub doesn't amplify the 1st harmonic as well as the fundamental. That seems to be the #1 problem with factory subs - they often have a too high crossover like 80 Hz.

You've got some pretty scary looking acoustics going on with those big expanses of drywall, flat desk surface, big pictures with glass and bare corner... but that's all pretty cheap to fix.

Woven mats and lahala stuff has the sound and look I like.

I'd start by throwing out or changing everything in the room that doesn't sound good.
 
Hello,

Thanks for your great responses.

I need to take a look at how much I can actually alter in the room as it is my office as well, not just a dedicated audio mixing area.

This is what happen when you start providing services out of your home, it turns into a business then you want your quality to improve with the growth.

I am a stage away from having a dedicated space but it is so easy to cover profit margins when you work at home.

With regards to the Wharfedale's, these were purchased about 4 year ago when I was growing, they were quite affordable. Outside of my room issues, would I still want to consider a speaker upgrade? I have been directed to look at Dynaudio BM5a's which would be at a price I could justify.

Thanks, and I am sure I will have more questions.
 
Bassman2003 said:
..When I move around the room while music is playing, the bass amount is prety constant outside of a few areas:

..Along the wall behind the speakers, the open corner in one of the photos has more bass response when I lean my head in.
Click to expand...
There's this old trick of 'listen from the other room' to check macro. It also happens to work in micro mode. (Try a 300Hz tone, move your head 6" and see what happens..
I was going to say how hard would it be to just scoot the chair back a few feet to get out of the hole' dialing in lows, but you've pretty much said every where in the room is 'shy but for some boundary areas?

... listening to CDs in Windows Media Player pushing up the low end of the EQ sounds best which leads to some distortion on certain tracks.
Click to expand...
Also, can't help but to at least ask :) ..how about your expectation of how much bass is 'norm?
 
Great information here, thank you.

I have been listening in, out and around the room and the level of low frequencies are pretty constant outside of the two areas I mentioned - the bare corner shown in the photo and under the desk.

Just for reference, I carried the powered sub from my livingroom into my office to see the difference.

I have mixed feelings here.

The addition of the sub allowed me to back off of the from 125hz down which eliminated the distortion on certain tracks. It also added a nice fullness.

But, with the sub, a muddy, boomy presence occured which can be balanced out, but there is a still a separation between the two speaker types.

The two areas mentioned above were boomin' with the sub on.


With regards to my expectations, this is a valid point. I am a bass player and I like a low-end presence. But I really think this is more of not hearing the whole spectrum rather than wanting more bass. The low end just does not seem represented as well as the other frequencies.

Maybe room treatment and a tight sub (more woofer) addition might be a happy medium here?
 
Plug your room in sizes in here and click on the different frequencies.
http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/room-eigenmodes.html
You can see what we're all up against here. :D

I have been listening in, out and around the room and the level of low frequencies are pretty constant outside of the two areas I mentioned - the bare corner shown in the photo and under the desk.
Click to expand...
With all you've said I can only add (2 more cents' only :)) -try movig one of the speakers (don't even need both) to see if things change much. Pretty quickly this seem to settle down to 'speaker -or 'expectation.
 
Bassman2003 said:
So I am over-compensating with low frequencies.
Click to expand...
Have you tried simply not over-compensating? Many of us home wreckorders have to learn how to translate our speakers for the very reason that we can't always work in ideal studio conditions. This means knowing that if we want it to sound like A in the outside world, that we have to make it sound like B in our rooms. I'd think with just a little testing and practice that you could do the same.

In your case, you should be able to figure out that when it sounds "right" in your room, that you're x number of dB too hot in a particular bass region when you take it outside. If you make that translation in your room by applying the proper bass EQ curve to the bass track or the 2mix to make the appropriate cuts to what you hear in that room, you could wind up with a perfectly serviceable mix in the real world. At least until such time where you can upgrade your space or layout.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Have you tried simply not over-compensating? Many of us home wreckorders have to learn how to translate our speakers for the very reason that we can't always work in ideal studio conditions. This means knowing that if we want it to sound like A in the outside world, that we have to make it sound like B in our rooms. I'd think with just a little testing and practice that you could do the same.

In your case, you should be able to figure out that when it sounds "right" in your room, that you're x number of dB too hot in a particular bass region when you take it outside. If you make that translation in your room by applying the proper bass EQ curve to the bass track or the 2mix to make the appropriate cuts to what you hear in that room, you could wind up with a perfectly serviceable mix in the real world. At least until such time where you can upgrade your space or layout.

G.
Click to expand...
:) Yes. And.. if you happen to be (in general listening') a 'turn the bass up' on commercial ref', and do that also at mix- you are setting your stuff up for a double whammy',
 
I have learned to back off the low frequencies when I think it needs a little more.

Part of this is fueled by wanting a better listening setup as well.

So to wrap up this thread, I will investigate some room treatments, move a speaker around and for listening more than mixing I will look into a more 'woofer' type sub-woofer.

I realize there is only so much to be done with this space, so I will make the best of it!

I did not hear any barking over the Wharfedales, so I will plan on keeping them.

Thank you once again.
 
I also have a pair of the Wharfdales. Just yesterday I got a pair of Yamaha HS80m's. I have remixed a couple of things I am currently working on but I haven't had a chance to check anything yet. I do like the extra bass I am hearing from the Yamahas but I will need to spend a good amount of time getting used to them.
 
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