Monitor buying advice- what ones??

  • Thread starter Thread starter dturcotte
  • Start date Start date
Brackish said:
So, you're saying take these CDs and whichever
speaker they sound the best on, you should
get that speaker?
Click to expand...
Yes.

BUT...

One needs to understand the proper definition of "best". Determining "best" requires having good ears and good listening skills. "Best" doesn't mean "what sounds attractive", it means "what sounds correct".

This is why the sound source should be one that the buyer is intimately familiar with, that they would know in their sleep, and that they have heard a million times on a thousand different systems in a thousand different environments.

And one that has the proper engineering on it to fill the spectrum. Obviously an Alan Lomax recording of some chain gang workers won't be a complete test :).

With good ear and the the use of proper listening skills, one can tell by using such a source what is "hyped" (I dislike that word, BTW, it implies a false idea; but since we're using it already... :o ) and what isn't.

Plus, remember that everybody's ears are different. Some of us NEED some specific "hype" to make up for deficiencies in our own ears. This is one of the reasons why some people love NS10s or 824s or BX5s and others of equal repute hate them. This is also one of the many reasons why asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet for opinions on how loudspeakers sound is about as fruitful as chasing rainbows.

There is still big drawback even in listening for ourself. In a sales showroom we have little to no control over the environment in which the speakers are auditioned. Who knows how the room and the speaker position are going to color what we hear? Plus, there is no way to correlate how that room affects the sound to how the room we bring them home to will make it sound.

But if we're lucky enough to at least be able to compare speakers in more or less the same position in at least a halfway decent room, we can make a relative comparison between the two and use our brains to help figure out which one sounds "right".

And no matter what happens, if we buy from a reputable dealer, we can always exchange them if they just don't work out for us at home.

G.
 
I agree with you on the "testing them before buying them" idea and that is exactly what I am going to do (except for the NS10) and I will choose what the best option is. But I do also believe that this is exactly what a site like this is for... opinions and advice.

Thanks guys for the advice and steering me in the right direction! I will keep you posted on what i get.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
One needs to understand the proper definition of "best". Determining "best" requires having good ears and good listening skills. "Best" doesn't mean "what sounds attractive", it means "what sounds correct".
/QUOTE]

Thanks, Glen, for answering.

Perhaps you could give me some advice on setting up
my current speakers. I have the Swans M200.
I got them after reading a good review about
how they're flat and don't have any hiss when
turned up to full max. They are very clear.

My problem is that they have treble and bass knobs.
I have assumed the knobs should be set to the
12 o'clock position. Oftentimes it seems like
the treble is set too high but I have just assumed
that "flat response" would be with the treble knob
set to the center postion. (The postioning
of the knob was not addressed in the article where
I read about them being flat.)

I have never really listened to any material I'm
intimately familiar with using the Swans because
I'm so sick of hearing that material I'll puke if I have to ...
My question is ... would I be better off just
listening to the material i know intimately and
use this to set the treble and base knobs to
the way I think it's supposed to sound?
Click to expand...
 
Brackish said:
I have never really listened to any material I'm
intimately familiar with using the Swans because
I'm so sick of hearing that material I'll puke if I have to ...
My question is ... would I be better off just
listening to the material i know intimately and
use this to set the treble and base knobs to
the way I think it's supposed to sound?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd say that'd be a good start. That might help you determine if it's that there's too much high end or whether it's actually that the room and/or position is sucking out the low end, making the treble sound accentuated.

I agree that I'd start at whatever zero is on those knobs, I assume that's the 12:00 position like you say. Then using familiar material with good sonic cross section see how they sound to you.

Also, if possible, I'd leave the bass and treble controls on the speakers as the last, fine tuning stage in getting the right sound. Use those only after all other options have been exhausted, IMHO. By that I mean (after any room treatments, of course) try speaker positioning first. Sometimes with small speakers and nearfields, just moving the speakers a few inches further from the wall or further apart (or closer together) can make a world of difference, depending on what else you have going on at your desk like video monitors, keyboards, lava lamps ( ;) ), etc.

Then, once you have that optimized - or once your options there are exhaused - then *maybe* you might want to fine tune with the bass and treble controls just a little if need be. But I'd be somewhat wary of cranking either of them very far.

IMHO and all that.

G.
 
As far as the room, the speakers have an open room
behind them. The back of my editing chair is up against a
wall, so that the speakers are about 5'
away from the wall, facing toward the wall.
Do I normally want the wall behind me
to be refelective or absorbtive?
 
I have that same type of setup myself. Very interested to see Southside Glen's wisdom!
 
Tubedude has some MSP10's for sale.... any opinions??
 
Last edited:
dturcotte said:
I have that same type of setup myself. Very interested to see Southside Glen's wisdom!
Click to expand...

Referring to my post here? Wall to your
back and speakers with an open
room behind them?
 
Brackish said:
As far as the room, the speakers have an open room
behind them. The back of my editing chair is up against a
wall, so that the speakers are about 5'
away from the wall, facing toward the wall.
Do I normally want the wall behind me
to be refelective or absorbtive?
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, that's a tricky situation. I'd be more worried about what that does to the bass than anything else; there may not be enough room for the bass to stretch out and breathe. Maybe that's why your Swans sound so bright; you're getting a lot of high frequency reflection without giving the bass a chance to even come out of the speakers.

But honestly I'm more guessing with a situation like that. I know acoustics basics, but I'm no expert when situations get beyond the standard stuff. I'd defer or refer that question to Ethan, he'd be far more qualified to address that than I would. If he doesn't trip across this thread himself, I'd recommend finding him over in the Studio Building forum, or better yet, emailing him directly from his website (realtraps.com.)

G.
 
Brackish said:
As far as the room, the speakers have an open room
behind them. The back of my editing chair is up against a
wall, so that the speakers are about 5'
away from the wall, facing toward the wall.
Do I normally want the wall behind me
to be refelective or absorbtive?
Click to expand...

This is a really bad situation. If I understand you correctly, your speakers are firing into a wall five feet away, and you are sitting between them and that wall.

That means you are hearing almost as much sound reflected from the back wall as you are the direct sound from the speakers. This is going to create horrible modes - severe comb filtering. I'm surprised you have been able to get any decent mixes this way.

However, all is not lost. It seems like the best immediate solution is just to rotate everything 180 degrees. Now the back of your speakers should be facing that wall (the one that was 5' away in the original configuration). They are now firing into the open room, creating a much better acoustic situation than what you had before. The back of your edit chair is now facing the open room as well.

Changing the speaker orientation in this manner will probably do more to improve your sound than anything else you could conceivably do. A good general rule of thumb is to aim your speakers along the longest open room dimension that you have available.

And if you really need to see what is going on behind you, put up a small mirror. Or use a web-cam.
 
Update!

So, I have been working with the Truth's and I have to say I am not really impressed. Unfortunately I jumped the gun and sold my Samson that I was sooooo used to.

I found myself working twice as hard to get the right mix and I still really didn't get what i wanted. Maybe I am still trying to get usedto them or maybe I just miss the sub!

So now, I found a great deal on a pair of older KRK V8's and a RP10 Sub. I am going to get it try it out.

Also, as an FYI... I did pick up a pair of NS10m's but haven't used them yet. Still looking for the right amp. Looking forward to hearing them though.

Anyone looking for a pair of B2031A's?? LOL
 
I'm not surprised that you aren't happy with those 2031's. I felt you jumped the gun on that deal and moved from one budget monitor to another that was pretty clearly going to be less good.

It's *really* important not to be blinded by money when choosing monitors. Yes, we all obviously have to stick to a budget, but picking up a pair because they are $175 is a sure recipe for disappointment, as you've discovered.

I would also recommend against buying used monitors. I buy a lot of gear used, but there are certain things I won't purchase used, monitors being one of them. Monitors can be abused, monitors can get fried, monitors can just wear out and get fatigued. You just don't know what's happened to them before you've owned them.

So I don't agree with a "used only" approach to buying monitors. It seems a bit like you are flailing around, buying this, buying that. That is *great* as an education for your ears, I do that myself sometimes--buy gear used just to see what it sounds like and if I think it will work for me. But as far as getting a pair of monitors that are in perfect condition and can help you for years to come, I think you need to take the time to save up more money and buy yourself an excellent pair of monitors that are new.

I use a pair of Mackie HR824's and a pair of KRK V4's. The Mackie's are probably as close to being the "new NS10" as any monitor out there. They are just very common right now. I have some minor reservations about them, but overall they are a great monitor for the money, as I do believe you have to spend quite a bit more to get something dramatically better.

And I love my KRK V4's. Take a listen to the KRK V6 and V8, and seriously consider them. Only consider used if you really know the seller and what volume levels they listen at, and how well or poorly they maintain their gear.

If you are interested in unpowered monitors, KRK made a speaker called the ST8. I think it is discontinued, but you can still find them new if you hunt around. I recommended these to my brother, who has a home studio. He uses them with a Mackie amp and they sound really good, actually kind of amazingly good for the money (and very inexpensive). I'd take these over the NS10 any day, but that's just my opinion. You might have to hunt around for them to find a pair new though.

Hope some of this helps.
 
Thanks SonicAlbert, you are correct... I do buy things to try them out and see what they are. I thought the price on the trut's was pretty good so I jumped at it.

The V8's that i talke about I know very well. They are from a friend of mine that used them very sparingly (I will bet a total of maybe 20 hours) and I have always told him if he decides to close his home studio to let me know. Well, he has decided to do just that so I am looking at the V8's with the RP10 sub for around $600.

I also have the opportunity to pik up a set of RP8's also with the RP10 sub for around $500. I know these guys very well and have heard these monitors on several occasions and amvery impressed by both. No exactly sure which way I am going to go yet.

As far as the Truth's... I pretty mch knew they were not going to be "the ones". There has been some mixed reviews on these and I kinda' wanted to form my own opinion. Andfor th price, it allowed me to do just that. What I found mostly was they don't have a really good bass representation without a sub. I fond that the Samson (w/sub) did jst as well if not better. Just my opinion of course with my room situation.

I would like to someday try out the 824's but not yet. Ihave heard the 824's in a couple different home studio's and different placements and I was impressed with them. I was quite impressed with the sound athough I still hought the bass representation was still quite there, but again that may have to do with room dressing and such. But they were no way as bad as the Truth's.

I have heard really nothing but good things about the KRK's and since I have the opportunity to get a good price, I will check one of them out... maybe even both!! LOL
 
I personally would go with the V8's, especially since you know the seller and the monitors are virtually unused. Don't let the $100 price difference on the RP8's tempt you at all, over the long term that $100 really amounts to nothing.

If you buy two sets of monitors I highly suggest you get a large and a small set. I also believe in having monitors from two (or more) different manufacturers. The whole point is to get a good reference and having monitors from different manufacturers gives you more perspective on the different systems your listeners may be using. You want to be able to hear your mix differently.

So in your case, think about the V8's along with something like this:

http://www.avantelectronics.com/AVANTONE_mixcubes.htm

Or, since you already have the NS10's, you could use them as your second set.

Then a good little speaker switcher so you can flip back and forth easily. I use the Presonus Central Station for that.
 
Yeah I agree.. The $100 difference should not make my choice. In my case, with the MX9000, I can switch back and forth with a knob for up to I believe 4 different monitor setups. So that works very well.

I agree about the smaller monitor as well. I will keep you posted on what i find. No matter what i am going with the V8's and work from there. I need to get an amp for the NS10's and get them going also. Since I have 4 monitor selections from my mixer, my arranement will kinda like- KRK's, NS10's, My Carvin 1588's, and then some smaller monitors (but with a sub of course).
 
Well, I think it is good to listen to a smaller set without a sub. Really. Talk about a reality check. Or, have one of your monitors sets be a boombox that has an audio input.

But the whole concept of having a small 4" monitor is that it simulates a boombox, something a lot of people listen to. That's what I have my V4's for. It also gets you a little closer to bookshelf monitors, which is another type that a lot of people have.

In a perfect world you'd be able to pop your sub in and out in combination with any other set of speakers. But if that's not the case you should definitely have one set that you listen to without the sub.

There are a lot of people that don't have subs, or don't normally listen to music with a sub. I have a sub, but it's not even hooked up. So you need your mix to be at least be viable for sub-less folks like me. That means checking your mixes without a sub and then getting them to hold together without the sub, even if the main thrust of the mix is to sound great with a sub.
 
Very good point! What i have been throwing around is possibly hooking a reciever to my mixer (Monitor out L/R t say tape in L/R on the reciever) and maybe have the NS10's on select speaker "a" and say some bookshelf speakers on select speaker "b".

That would give me the ability to switch back and forth with a push of a button. This would also open one more Monitor out from the mixer that I could probably hook to either a smaller set of monitors or maybe even a boombox.
 
OK, I got the V8's in along with the RP10 sub and I have been mixing with the for the past couple days. I have to say, these are absulutely perfect for my room situation! They have perfect representation of everything going on. So with that being said, I think I have found my "perfect monitors"!

I presently have a very difficult room situation. I record in an open garage with the back of the monitors facing the studio side of the room. I am in the process of adding a wall to separate the so called "control room" and the studio part itslef. I am sure that once I do that these monitors will only sound better.

I also got the NS10's hooked up and I have to say that I was pretty impressed with them. Especially switching back and orth between them and the KRK's.

So now here's my setup...

V8's and sub coming from Control room out of mixer
NS10's coming from Studio out of mixer
Pair of Bose 301's coming from tape out to Onkyo reciever
Main outs to Carin 1588's
and finally phone out 2 to small type boom box

The gives me the ability to pretty much stay right in the garage and check my mixes on multiple settings. Now eventually when I get the room separation complete, I may change to configuration to maybe put the 301's in the studio itself for play back in the studio. Not really sure yet. Or maybe just use the Carvins for that and leave all my mixdown speakers in the control room. If anyone has some suggestions, please jump in.

I know room treatment is very important and once I get the separation done, I will be looking for some advice on how to get my "room" to sound better.

I wanna thank everyone who jumped in here and gave their thoughts on monitor selection and advice. They have been very helpful as usual.
 
honestly, i think the best advice i can offer is go to a shop and listen to them
 
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