Mogami vs Canare & general questions.

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Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
Looking for answers & opinions.

I need some cable, and am looking at purchasing either canare or mogami in bulk. I need both microphone cable and something to make line level runs.

1) To anyone who's actually USED both Mogami Quad W2534 & Canare Star Quad, what do you think? The canare i can get for 0.33 a foot, and the mogami is more around 0.78 a foot. Back when I did that little cable comparison, I used a hunk of Canare that ametth donated to me and liked it. However, I was just trying to convince myself that cable does indeed make a difference, so the canare was only up against some belden & some weird junk brand.

It would be possible to purchase both canare & mogami, but I'm just looking for about 100ft so it's cheaper to buy one brand...at least from some retailers. If the mogami is worlds above the canare, I'll probably spend the extra 40 cents a foot, or maybe just get a smaller hunk and make one nice cable for vocals or....well I dunno. Opinions please.

2) Before long I'm going to be isolating my computer, and I need to make several long (20+ foot) line level runs. What kind of cable do I use? I'm seeing this "console" cable by mogami & canare, for instance, that has 2 pairs just like the quad mic cable. What's the difference exactly. What do I need?

3) Since my soundcard's breakout box will be moving along with the computer, at least while I'm recording, I'm going to have to run long cables from the box to my pre's. I was thinking that there will be times where I'd just have a cable hanging in the open, and I'd have to go into the computer room and unplug it from the breakout box while it's not in use. What a pain. So what I need is some way to "dock" unused cables that are still plugged into the soundcard, so they won't hum. Am I looking for a patchbay? I mean a patchbay would work even though I'm not at a point where I need to do any patching. What are my options?

4) I'm kind of going out of order here.... It appears as though markertek has good prices and they were recommended to me. However, I'd take any other suggestions for purchasing bulk cable (in small quantities) and Switchcraft connectors. (switchcraft prefered over neutrik...just a personal thing though, no need to start a debate)

Thanks!

Slackmaster 2000
 
P.S. I've limited myself to canare & mogami because they were both recommended to me by good people, and I'm sort of at a point where two options is about all my brain can process in a timely matter. If I have to consider 20 brands, I'll never make a decision!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Although I haven't used the Star Quad stuff... I have used both Mogami and Canare and I can't tell the difference...... either one are considered high-quality cable brands.........

Bruce
 
Mogami uses a spiral wrap shield on a lot of their quad cable: quicker to strip and terminate, more flexible, but perhaps not quite as durable as the Canare. Canare uses a braid shield: stiffer, bulkier, a pain in the ass to terminate, but more bulletproof.

I have some of both brands of quad, because I had to try it out. I use more of the Canare because it is a little cheaper, and more robust for flexing and spooling up to take on live dates. I can't hear the difference between them, either.
 
I'm really leaning towards Canare at this point. 40 cents a foot is a big difference.

Anyone have comments on 2,3 & 4 above?

Slackmaster 2000
 
OMG!! you replied to Slackmaster 2000 in your 2000nd post... /me faints... :cool:
 
RE, I look forward to your reply. I remember that you sent a bunch of mic cables to Ed to try out. I think mogami was high on his list, though he prefered that gnarly Monster stuff (that I simply can not afford). I'm very interested in what you have to say, and maybe you can answer my other questions as well!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Just posting here cuz I wanna watch this thread, got a cable project in the works myself.

Queue
 
I'd also like to add that I found some Canare Star Quad fixed installation cable that comes in 20 and 22AWG, and it's only like 24 cents a foot. I won't be moving my line level runs as much as say, my microphones, so can I use the fixed installation stuff, or is it too rigid or delicate or what?

Thanks!

Slackmaster 2000
 
hehe,
I'm a waitin' on the return of RE as well....

My brother and I are gonna go in on some cable, I'm guessing the prices might go down a bit if we buy a 50' roll of the stuff...

Queue
 
50' isn't much though man...more of a handful than a roll :) But if 50' is all you need, you can get it for about $17 if you go Canare Quad Star, and $38 for the Mogami Quad. Either way it's not too expensive.

I'm looking at possibly around 200' in total...plus about $30 in hardware. If I can do the fixed installation stuff for my line runs it'll only cost $24 (for the 100' I'll need), then $34 for 100' of mic cable (assuming I go canare). But then I could get a 20' hunk of mogami to try out for 15 bucks so I might just do that too.

Anyway, don't want to overthink it....but I would like to hear what RE has to say about it all! Plus maybe he can answer the other questions I had.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I guess 50' is pretty damn pissy. I'm hoping to find a magic number (like the size of a standard spool) and see if I can hit it...

Canare might get the nod, cheaper and stronger, what's not to like?

Anyone have any thoughts on solderless neutrik XLR connectors?

Queue
 
Dude don't go solderless! That's all I'll say.

I bet you're going to find that a standard "roll" of mic cable will be around 1000'.

Slackmaster 2000
 
figgered that solderless would be too good to be true...

I poked around, and found this:

http://www.mars-cam.com/ccd/mogami/quadmicc.html

Mogami's standard length spools (for this cable) are 50m, 100m, and 200m (164ft, 328ft, and 656ft) ...starting at $127.92 (without a discount)

and this...

http://canare.com/l4e6s.html

Canare goes 200m and 305m (656ft and 1000ft) ...starting at $223.04 (without a discount)

Unless there's a DEEP discount.... I guess I won't be buying any full spools...

Queue
 
That 50m mogami roll works out to 0.78 a foot which is what markertek sells it for. I've seen it recently for as low as 0.70 although I must admit I didn't spend ages searching. I seem to remember seeing it in the 0.60 range a long while back...hmmm.... Anyway, I was focused mostly on markertek because that Canare Star Quad price is 10-20 cents lower than a lot of other places...plus switchcraft A3F and A3M connectors for $1.99 apiece and switchcraft SW297 1/4" TRS connectors for $2.58...which seems pretty fair.

One thing I found that I should mention, when using the Canare Star Quad with Switchcraft connectors: the canare is a little thinner than some mic cable (or all of the standard junk I've got laying around). Therefore the connector butt doesn't grab the cable snugly, so some heat shrink tubing might be beneficial. (don't get it at radio shack, though, they overcharge)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Why the heck not? Take the long view. Once you start doing music, and recording: you never stop. If I look back over my career, I've used up *way* over 10000 feet of shielded pair. Seriously: between building studio mark I, studio mark II, live gigging, and various paying install jobs... And I'm hardly even a wanker compared to the *real* pros.

I'm just about to wipe out the last of a 1000' roll of Belden permanent-install foil shielded cable that I originally bought in 1984. The braid or spiral shield stuff, I go through like candy... Shoot, at this point I can't justify buying _less_ than 500 feet of anything. If it works, I'll use it up. If it sucks, I'll sell it. It's like buying gasoline, dammit. If I could only have laid in 200 gallons just before the spring (so I didn't get gouged foir the summer travel season)...

My road cable bin, at last count, had about 1500 feet of cable , and probably 80 pairs of connectors. If it fell off the truck tomorrow, I'd just shrug and start soldering again. Wire is a consumable, just like gasoline.
 
That 50m mogami roll works out to 0.78 a foot which is what markertek sells it for.
Click to expand...

hehe, that's cuz I used markertek's prices to calculate the (pre discount) roll costs...

Queue
 
Sorry

Man, I tell you I suck! I really DO try, but real life keeps me away from what I REALLY like doing! I really DO miss coming here as often as I use to!

But lets talk about some cable!

1) I have! Tell you the truth, don't really know if I can here the difference! I mean I HAVEN'T done ANY cable "comparisions" of anything like that, but in every day use "comparisions", I can't say I hear a difference.

Now please remember and note that there IS a difference, quite a difference, in cable once you starting adding up tracks! By 24, I bet most of us could EASILY hear a difference if we were doing comparisions with ANY two brands of cables! You'd be AMAZED how more "professional" you're end-product is when using professional cable with good solid connections throughout your ENTIRE system! And when you upgrade from Hosa to professional cable, I PROMISE you'll be "enlightened" (for all the "cable" is cable" people who might read this)!

By the way Slack, I think saving the $ and buying just one type for a better price for higher bulk is a good idea. You'd be better off taking the money you saved and putting it toward something else to improve the signal path.

2)It's just a shielding, O.D. (Outer Diameter), weight, and durability issue as far as the quad console cable and microphone quad cable goes. Foil Shielding is most popular for permanant installation. I have TONS of the Mogami foil shield console cable for most of my patchbay connections. It's not the quad version, but I'd buy that myself if I was starting over again; which is good if you're in a high EMI and RFI area. Of course I've never had any problems, but I feel it's better to cover yourself if you can; WELL worth the extra bucks.

However, the drawback with quad cable is you "technically" should not use over 12 foot long lengths (especially at line level) because beyond that, the capacitance is too high (causing too much high-end roll-off) and the phase shifts too far off to be deemed "exceptable" by then. So, most people seem to agree, under 12 feet, quad makes GREAT line level patch cords (especially for patchbays)! I tend to following that "rule" with quad line level cable as often as possible, but I don't think I have EVER noticed a difference when I haven't! Oddly enough, with microphone cables even at lengths of 40-50 feet, I find PLENTY of high-end in the cable! And as far as phase shifts go, I think I have more problems with phase shifts when multi-miking!

Spiral shielding is A LOT easier and quicker to work with; as well as cheaper. It probably works well enough, BUT, there is something about braided that makes you feel more "secure", just in case! Plus, if it's quad and road-worthy, it'll more than likely only have braided shielding anyhow. Braided is just A LOT more work!

So, to answer your question about what you should use for running those 20' lines to your computer, I'd say, truthfully, you'd be fine with running the same quad cable you use for you're microphone cables; I do! BUT, if you feel more "comfortable" following the "rules", then by all mean, get some good 2-conductor equivalent as the quad. And the shielding type? Whatever makes you feel more "comfortable" there too.

3)I don't really know what your set-up is, but yep, sounds like you're going to have to live with the "What a pain." or go with a patchbay. Personally, if you really don't need the bay, I'd live with the "What a pain."

Or... Are the connections coming out of the pres 1/4" or XLR? If XLR, they won't hum as long as pin 3 is not connected to the XLR connector case; which I don't recommend, regardless.

4)I haven't found ANYONE who beats Full Compass when it comes to bulk cable and connectors!

By the way, NYS228 are Neutrik's version of Switchcraft's 297.:rolleyes: Just tried them. Good enough for me. And cheaper!:p :D
 
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