modes are confusing me

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Elmo89m

Elmo89m

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so lets just say im playing in the key of C. I want to solo overthis but i dont want the major scale because it is boring and i dont want minor or major pentatonic because they are to bluesy. so i decide on Dorian so i can get that cool jazz/blue santana-y tone. to make it sound right and to stay in key do i play the dorian pattern and start it with C as the root. or do i use D as the root. Also does the same go if i wanted to use Aeolian?
 
I think you are simply confusing what a "mode" really is.
If you want to play in the key of C then you play in C.

Any mode that is in C may include the same notes of some other major scale, but you don't need to consider any other root note when you are using that scale to solo in C.
 
Elmo89m said:
so i play the mode pattern with the root set to C?
Click to expand...
If you want to play a Dorian in the key of C, the root note will be 'D'.

Just play a C Major scale with the root as 'D'.

The dorian mode goes (I've put the relevant notes for D dorian in brackets) :
(D) tone (E) semitone (F) tone (G) tone (A) tone (B) semitone (C) tone (D)
 
Codmate said:
If you want to play a Dorian in the key of C, the root note will be 'D'.

Just play a C Major scale with the root as 'D'.

The dorian mode goes (I've put the relevant notes for D dorian in brackets) :
(D) tone (E) semitone (F) tone (G) tone (A) tone (B) semitone (C) tone (D)
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I must disagree with that.

If you want to play C dorian, you are in essence playing the A# major scale, in that you are playing the same notes, but you are playing in C.
C dorian is the second degree of the A#major scale.
 
Codmate said:
If you want to play a Dorian in the key of C, the root note will be 'D'.
Click to expand...

No, if you want to play in the key of "C", the root note is "C".

Just play a C Major scale with the root as 'D'.
Click to expand...

No. Play a "C" Dorian (which happens to have the same notes as a Bb major): (C) tone (D) semitone (Eb) tone (F) tone (G) tone (A) semitone (Bb) tone (C)
 
You can't just pick a mode, play a solo, and expect it to change the mood of the piece. If the underlying chord progression of the song is C-C-F-G, and you're playing notes from the C scale, then the whole thing is going to sound happy. It doesn't matter which pattern you use or where you start.

If you want the song to sound "dorian" then the whole composition needs to be dorian. Your progression needs to revolve around a d-minor chord. For instance, try this chord progression: dmin-F-dmin-G. Now solo with the C Major scale and you will be using the dorian mode.
 
metalhead28 said:
C dorian is the second degree of the A#major scale.
Click to expand...

Not technically correct. C Dorian is the second mode of the Bb major scale. The second mode of an A# major would be B# dorian. Enharmonic, perhaps, but its important to get the nomenclature right too.
 
B# ?????????

Sorry, but where I come from A# is the same as Bb, and there is no such thing as B#. I don't see why you feel like you need to call me on that. I'm not misleading the guy.
 
I was always taught that modes are *not* keys as they are not represented by key signatures, and that modes fall into keys in the same way chords do - for instance, modes in the key of C major would be, D Dorian, E phrygian , F lydian , etc etc.

This article confirms the way I'm thinking about modes:
http://www.8notes.com/articles/modes/

Whatever - if the chords the original poster wants to solo over are in C Major, and he wants to use a dorian scale, he should be using D Dorian, which is a mode in the key of C Major.
 
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Codmate, you have an interesting point.
I was only assuming that he wanted to play "C Dorian"

But like dirty thermos suggested, whether or not that was right would depend on the chord progression he was playing over.
However, if it was a C major progression, I don't think you would ever consider that playing the C major scale over it would be called "D dorian"....it would just be called C major.
 
One more thing...if the progression he was playing over WAS C major...you would not use Dorian.
 
metalhead28 said:
B# ?????????

Sorry, but where I come from A# is the same as Bb, and there is no such thing as B#. I don't see why you feel like you need to call me on that. I'm not misleading the guy.
Click to expand...

Yes, A# and Bb are the same note (i.e. "enharmonic"). As are B# and C, but if you are talking music theory (which we are), there is a distinction in function. It's not proper to speak of C as the second note of an A# major scale. An A# major scale is spelled: A#, B#, C##, D#, E#, F##, G##, A#. Conversely, a Bb major scale is spelled: Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, B. Same notes. DIfferent spellings. It would be wrong, from a music theory standpoint, to say that an A# major scale is spelled, for example: A#, C, D, D#, F, G, A, A#. Again, same notes, but wrong spelling.
 
Okay...I concede that you are correct about that.

(Mr T Voice)
But I still say that's a bunch of Jibber-Jabber!!!

:D
 
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Codmate said:
Whatever - if the chords the original poster wants to solo over are in C Major, and he wants to use a dorian scale, he should be using D Dorian, which is a mode in the key of C Major.
Click to expand...

But using a D Dorian over a C Major progression isn't really playing a D Dorian at all. It's just playing a C Major scale. I assumed that he wanted to play a Dorian mode in C. That's what he said. As the other poster said, though, you can't just play a C Dorian over a C major progression. Well, you can, but it'll sound pretty "off". I assumed he meant that he was going to play over some kind of minor-ish progression in C.
 
my bad...nk already put it up. 10 sharps is a little frightening! :eek:
 
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krs said:
A# major has 10 sharps. Bflat major has two flats. I have never seen 10 sharps in key signature in my life, not that you couldn't....but would you really want to?
Click to expand...

Yes, A# major is not a particularly popular key.
 
Yeah, yeah, yeah....get off my back! :D :D :D

I understand the theory, but I think of guitars and scales in terms of intervals and fret positions. I don't bother too much with note names and whether or not I'm calling them right. As far as I'm concerned if I'm on the right fret, I'm on the right fret...you know what I mean?
 
nkjanssen said:
But using a D Dorian over a C Major progression isn't really playing a D Dorian at all. It's just playing a C Major scale. I assumed that he wanted to play a Dorian mode in C. That's what he said. As the other poster said, though, you can't just play a C Dorian over a C major progression. Well, you can, but it'll sound pretty "off". I assumed he meant that he was going to play over some kind of minor-ish progression in C.
Click to expand...

True - the mode is more to do with the harmonic character of a passage/piece than anything else.

However - I assumed that the OP just wanted to practice the dorian shape over a progression in C Major. Although I totally take the point that this doesn't make the track a 'D Dorian' track, this is a valid way of practicing the fingering for the dorian mode :)
 
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