Modding an ART Tube MP Studio

mwthompson

mwthompson

Croisaandwich
I purchased a pair of these from Musicians Friend last year since I figured for $29/each it was worth checking them out. With my MXL V63M condenser they both are quiet, but with my SM57 and my Beta58 they are both as noisy as hell.

I've read where some people have modded these ART preamps to improve them but I can't seem to find any information specifically for this particular model. Does anyone know of a place where I can find some information on modding these?

I realize I should not expect much for $30, but if I can make these more quiet they may be nice for running guitars or bass direct.

Also, should I really need anything in addition to the built in pre's on my Presonus Inspire firewire interface? I don't actually *need* the ARTs to get enough gain, all my mics work fine running directly into the Inspire, or so it seems anyway.
 
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Somnium7 said:
Did you try searching this forum, there are some threads about this here...
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=160729
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Yeah, but I was hoping to find a little more detailed info. I read a thread on another site where someone apparently replaced a lot of components in an older model Tube MP, but their descriptions didn't match the models I have. I'm sure I could do the op amp and tube replacements no problem, I even have some NOS 12ax7s I could use. But the mods I saw for the other models included cap replacements/etc to make it quieter and improve the overall quality. I guess "quality" can be subjective though. :)

Thanks for the reply!
 
mwthompson said:
I guess "quality" can be subjective though. :)

Thanks for the reply!
Click to expand...

No problem. Yeah quality is by nature hard to define in a way that everybody can agree on.
I believe that having a cheap piece of gear to do mods on can be instructive and educational but at the same time I think there is a point where it makes no sense to expend the effort. Lemme see if I can clarify that a bit.

A cheap pre is a good place to learn how to perform mods because it won't matter too much if you fry the thing. So it makes sense to not invest any more money in such an item. If you have the parts lying around already and nothing better to do with them then it's fine. Spending money on some really good opamps and tubes though is going to really bite you in the rear should you actually manage to fry the circuit.

IMO you can achieve a greater sense of accomplishment and have a more usable piece of gear by purchasing some old dog of a mixer and modding that to improve it's sound. You can find old Tascam units from the early 1980s for next to nothing these days and they are built like brick shithouses compared to stuff they sell now. Replace a handful of opamps and capacitors in something like that and you have something worth the effort in the end. Not to mention possibly several channels of discreet transistor preamps.
 
mwthompson said:
Yeah, but I was hoping to find a little more detailed info. I read a thread on another site where someone apparently replaced a lot of components in an older model Tube MP, but their descriptions didn't match the models I have. I'm sure I could do the op amp and tube replacements no problem, I even have some NOS 12ax7s I could use. But the mods I saw for the other models included cap replacements/etc to make it quieter and improve the overall quality. I guess "quality" can be subjective though. :)

Thanks for the reply!
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Here's a PDF of the old mod from Black Lion Audio (that has since been taken off the site.) I don't know how it relates to the current version (guess I'l have to put out $30 and see.)

http://home.att.net/~crazydoc/ART_Tube_MP_Modification.pdf

(Disclaimer: Black Lion - If posting this violates your copyright, let me know and I'll take it down.)
 
Somnium7 said:
You can find old Tascam units from the early 1980s for next to nothing these days and they are built like brick shithouses compared to stuff they sell now. Replace a handful of opamps and capacitors in something like that and you have something worth the effort in the end. Not to mention possibly several channels of discreet transistor preamps.
Click to expand...

Tascam preamps? Or old mixers? I'd have a ball with something like that, I really enjoy the electronic DIY stuff. :)

Any model numbers/series would be helpful if you can think of any.

Thanks, again!
 
crazydoc said:
Here's a PDF of the old mod from Black Lion Audio (that has since been taken off the site.) I don't know how it relates to the current version (guess I'l have to put out $30 and see.)

http://home.att.net/~crazydoc/ART_Tube_MP_Modification.pdf

(Disclaimer: Black Lion - If posting this violates your copyright, let me know and I'll take it down.)
Click to expand...

THANKS!

That looks like an older model, but I'm sure I can get some good info from there.
 
mwthompson said:
Tascam preamps? Or old mixers? I'd have a ball with something like that, I really enjoy the electronic DIY stuff. :)

Any model numbers/series would be helpful if you can think of any.

Thanks, again!
Click to expand...

Here's a few models worth working on if you can find em cheap somewhere.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-TEAC-5-Tascam-Series-Mixing-Console-5A-Mixer_W0QQitemZ220189533849QQihZ012QQcategoryZ23785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tascam-M-216-M216-16-Ch-4-Bus-Mixer-Great-Cond-Manual_W0QQitemZ130188078393QQihZ003QQcategoryZ23785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Those old M series are great for restoration from what I have read and they come in a variety of formats and sizes. The smaller ones are usually very cheap.
Also keep an eye out for other brands of old mixers, Peavey, Fostex, Toa, Tapco, Soundcraft, Sony, Bogen etc. Just try to stick with stuff from the mid to late 70s and early 80s because it's easier to work on and find parts for.
This is kinda cheesy but may be an interesting project for little cash:
http://cgi.ebay.com/tapco-mixer-6-channel-6200A_W0QQitemZ300188413131QQihZ020QQcategoryZ23785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My biggest project right now is a 32 channel Toa RX-7 from the late 70s. This thing has input and output transformers and discreet op-amps on every channel and it's easy to work on. It's a HUGE project but it's gonna rock when I'm done with it. :D

Just saw this - really cool too http://cgi.ebay.com/Teac-2A-Audio-Mixer_W0QQitemZ230209948289QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23785QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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Sure man anytime. I just read through that Black Lion Tube MP upgrade manual. You better *really* love that pre if youre considering those mods. :p

I just couldnt justify all that work and expense on that design. It just strikes me as a very small return for such a large effort. i could be wrong...

it would be educational though :)
 
I've have that BLA pdf for awhile, and every once in awhile I crack it open and look askance at the Tube MP sitting over in the corner, scowl, and close the PDF - the chances of me getting the time to do that from start to finish are *really small*. It would be good to know which steps have what kind of impact and whether it's advisable to perform some but not all of them.
 
antichef said:
I've have that BLA pdf for awhile, and every once in awhile I crack it open and look askance at the Tube MP sitting over in the corner, scowl, and close the PDF - the chances of me getting the time to do that from start to finish are *really small*. It would be good to know which steps have what kind of impact and whether it's advisable to perform some but not all of them.
Click to expand...

I guess if you really want to hack this sucker you could get away with just doing the upgrades to the input stage beginning on page 4 and actually hear some improvement afterward. I keep wondering though why he didn't change the differential amplifiers. Swapping those transistors with monolithic matched pairs would improve the CMRR of the input circuit.
I'm not sure using such a fast opamp was necessary either.

Frankly if I was to change anything in the power supply I would just scrap the entire circuit and build a better one in an external box and screw it to the top of the preamp. Changing out all those parts and leaving the noisy-ass regulators in there is IMO a waste of time.

I occasionally have the temptation to crack open my TubePre and gut it but then I think about the bigger fish I have to fry and compare that to the relatively small reward of modding a starved tube Pre.

Honestly, my efforts would be better spent on a JLM Audio Baby Animal or Gyraf G9 tube preamp kit.
 
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