Mixing With Real Faders on PC ?

K

kesterdevine

New member
Warning: I'm a total newbie to PC recording. But, I've been doing some research on how to put together my PC recording rig to include mixing with real faders.

I know that there are many different ways to achieve this, but it's all very confusing to me.

I'm hoping some of you who mix on PC this way will share your set-up with me, so, that I can factor in other's experiences/gear into my research.

Or do you know of any articles that address this topic?

I have a pretty decent computer, and will be looking for a good interface that will allow for at least 8 simultaneous in's. Other than that I'm very confused about how to integrate a "real" mixer into the picture.

My budget is fairly limited, so i'd like to get up and running for under $1000. At first, I thought the Roland Studio Pack Pro might work for me, but now I have my doubts.

Any and all suggestions are very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Kester
 
kesterdevine said:
I've been doing some research on how to put together my PC recording rig to include mixing with real faders.

interface that will allow for at least 8 simultaneous in's. Other than that I'm very confused about how to integrate a "real" mixer into the picture.

My budget is fairly limited, so i'd like to get up and running for under $1000.

Thanks,
Kester
Click to expand...

Hello Kester and welcome

I asume you mean by "real mixing using faders" you mean routing seperate channels back from your PC to an external mixer on mixdown.

You say you need at least 8 inputs. Why? What exactly will you be recording? The reason I ask is many home recording artists lay songs down one track at a time and there are a lot of good soundcards out there that offer 2 inputs and multiple outputs. An 8 input card is going to eat well into your budget.

I currently run an M-Audio DELTA 1010 (8i/8o) back to a 24 channel analog desk, but I've just invested in a DELTA 410 (2i/8o) giving me 10in/16out. In my current situation I'm not going to be recording 10 seperate sources at a time but my mixes often have 20+ tracks. The 410 2i/8o gives me a less expensive option for routing 16 channels back to the mixer than buying another 8i/8o card. If I'm happy with the results of the 410 card (I just purchased it today and havent recieved it yet) I'll add another giving me 12in/24out.

I started out with a Soundblaster 16 and a ZooM Guitar effects unit with a headphone out on it that I linked to the line in. I recorded guitar, bass and vocals through it for almost 2 years and mixed everything in the box with Cool Edit 98. I didn't make the jump to the 8i/8o till I absolutely had to...then ofcourse I got the "more gear" hunger which lead to a 16 channel mixer, some outboard compressors and reverb, then on to a large frame 24/16/16/2 desk and now on to another 8out soundcard to feed the desk. I'm in a 15' x 11' room with a double bed in it and I want MORE GEAR!!! MORE GEAR!!!!!

In short, think about how many inputs you 'NEED' before you bite the bait.

Alec.
 
How much does that "I'm too lazy to use a mouse" box cost?

With used analoge consoles dropping in price all the time I can't see a better way ahead than having preamps, warm punchy EQ, 100mm faders and outboard effects. It's another option to the multiple option DAW. Then again what works for one might not work for another.

I'm just trying to point out to Kester that throwing most of his budget at an 8in/8out card when he might not NEED 8 inputs doesn't have to be the way ahead. Throwing even more cash at a control surface, on top of what he's gonna spend on a soundcard seems pretty silly to me. The guy did say
Other than that I'm very confused about how to integrate a "real" mixer into the picture.
Click to expand...

a mackie control is not a "real" mixer, not the last time I looked anyway.
 
THANKS for the input

To clarify: I desire 8 channels in/out, because acoustic drums are my main instrument and I will want at least four mics on the drumkit. I don't really want to pre-mix the drums because I want control of the drum mix in the final mixdown. Plus, I would like the option of being able to record simultaneously with another musician or small band at one time (the old fashioned way??)

Is there an easier (cheaper) way to achieve that? Am I making this harder (more costly) than it has to be??

I never really thought about it being "lazy" not to want to mix with a mouse, I simply think I'll be ultimately happier with tactile faders, because what experience I have has been with a physical mixer.

I guess what I mean is to route back from the PC to an external mixer, though maybe I thought what I wanted was a mixer that would control the mixing software. Again, I am admittedly confused.

That Mackie controller looks like it would definitely do the job, but I'm afraid it would break the budget, not leaving any cash for other things I need. I will be researching carefully before purchasing anything , and can certainly appreciate the advice not to spend unneccesarily.

And for the record, that would be HER budget ;-)

Thanks so much for the input! Much appreciated.
 
i have a frontier design wavecenter/tango24 wherein the wavecenter is the soundcard and the tango24 is the D/A/D that communicates through ADAT lightpipe with the soundcard.

i have the 8-ins/outs connected to a mackie 1604vlz pro wherein the in/outs are connected to the inserts of 8 of the channels on the mixer. this gives me the ability to record and monitor small band setups.

also,

i have a tascam us-428. this gives me the ability to feed in 4 additional tracks, but more importantly i use its outs as the main monitor outs. the us-428 is a miniature tactile mixer that works directly with the software. so i can mix in the software.
 
Kester
If you're on a limited budget, a 4-in card like the M-Audio Delta 44 for $199 might suit you better. If you use 3 drum mics, you've still got a spare input to record a jam with a guitarist. Then as you budget allows, you can bolt on another delta 44 to get 8 ins.

Also I wouldn't get hung up on 'real' fader fiddling. Modern mixing software allows you to draw volume and pan envelopes in each track that imo is a much more versatile and accurate way of mixing than sliding faders around
 
Why go computer? You could always get a uaed ADAT for about $300 and a Behringer Mixer for another $100 and you'd be set! Well.. at least it is simple!:D
 
Keep the suggestions coming, PLEASE

Since I am very much in the formative stages, I really appreciate all the suggestions! Thanks.

I'm open to all possibilities, and SIMPLE IS GOOD!!

The purchase of the PC is a neccessity, in fact I just got it a few days ago! So, I'm just trying to figure the best and most affordable way to set things up.

Thanks again for the tips.
 
Re: Keep the suggestions coming, PLEASE

Kester,

> I'm just trying to figure the best and most affordable way to set things up. <

You need an eight-input sound card, and a mixer that offers eight or more direct preamp outputs. You are correct to avoid submixing while recording because that severely limits your options when mixing. However, I don't agree that you need a control surface. That's really old-school. Depending on which DAW program you use, it's a lot easier to draw level changes using envelopes. In fact, I rarely use compression at all these days, except as a special effect. Rather, I just fix any notes that are too loud or too soft with volume envelopes. Once you've applied the level changes, they play back automatically. Versus having to ride the levels manually with faders every time you play the tune.

For a good overview of connecting a mixer to a DAW, see my article from EQ magazine, first in the list here:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan
 
awesome

Thanks Ethan,
I appreciate your response and I look forward to digging into ALL of your articles from EQ mag. Looks like very valuable info there that is going to help me out a lot.
Cheers!
Kester
 
i just got a computer system and i agree with the others that you really don't need a control surface. you know you could always get one if you wanted later. it's really not essential, but probably more convienent.

so what was your budget again? (considering you already bought the computer)

here is my suggestion for the simplest solution. don't buy an outboard mixer. if you want 8in 8out then it seems you are pointing right at the aardvark q10. is this in your budget? it should come with some basic recording software too if you are on a real tight budget. it has 8 preamps so all you need are the mics. the preamps sound pretty good. now if you have a some preamps or a mixer laying around then there are other options like the delta1010's, motu 828mkII (2pre's,no software), digi002R (4pres and software), presonus firestation (2pres).... awe man i could go on for hours since i just went through this whole thing for myself. am i going in the right direction or is your budget much different?


quote
> I guess what I mean is to route back from the PC to an external mixer,<
there is no need to go from your compter to an external mixer. all the mixing can and should be done within the computer. i think that roland interface is confusing you a bit.
 
I bought a Terratec Phase 88 for $300. It has 8-in/outs, 24-bit, midi.. blah blah. No preamps.. but I got a Behringer mixer for 180 used. For $480, I have a system that I feel is sounding as good as alot more expensive systems out there. I just recorded my drummers tracks today.. I was surpised at how good it sounded. (I've never used an interface)

I'm just throwing out another idea.
 
thanks again

I really appreciate all of your suggestions. No decision yet. I'm going to take it step by step. I think for starters , I'm simply going to use my MR-8 for tracking and play around with a couple of different mixing software programs to get my comfort level up, then go for the multi-input soundcard/interface. Although I'm very impatient to be able to record full drumkit!

After buying the computer, I have around $800-1000 to put into the additional recording gear (to start), so I need to choose wisely.

Thanks agan for the help! I'm always open to any other ideas.

~Kester
 
cool

thanks jdier,

Good work! My style is a lot more rock oriented than yours , but you got a good clean sound.

So, you didn't use a mixer or anything? Just the Aardvark Q10 into your computer?

Just curious, how much of the music was recorded live and how much of it was overdubbed?

And how did you record the drums?

Sorry to hit you with more questions, but I'm really trying to figure out the easiest way to accomplish my goals.

And you might really be onto something with your set up.

Thanks again,
Kester
 
Hey,

This is my first post to this forum after literally spending 6 hours reading on it.

Tthis is growing into an obsession and writing this post seems to encourage some kind of overwhelming feeling.


ANYWAY.

I fail to see the point in using my mackie 16 VLZ mixer with my future 8in soundcard.

What would be the advantage of it.

Say I had 8 tracks with vocals BVGS & guitars. If I wanted to change a volume, or change an effect, what would be the advantage.

AHHH!!!! RELEASE!!!

Thanks,

Ben
 
dsynthuhsize said:
Hey,

This is my first post to this forum after literally spending 6 hours reading on it.

Tthis is growing into an obsession and writing this post seems to encourage some kind of overwhelming feeling.


ANYWAY.

I fail to see the point in using my mackie 16 VLZ mixer with my future 8in soundcard.

What would be the advantage of it.

Say I had 8 tracks with vocals BVGS & guitars. If I wanted to change a volume, or change an effect, what would be the advantage.

AHHH!!!! RELEASE!!!

Thanks,

Ben
Click to expand...


Even if you're doing the one man band kinda recording, I still think multiple inputs would be cool simply for the set and forget factor. Say you have 3 mics. One for accoustic guitar, one for your amp and one for vocals. Maybe add a bass guitar going direct into the mixer. You can adjust the settings on different channels and simply leave them so you don't have to spend time re-tweaking for whatever you're recording. You just hit a couple buttons on the mixer and software to output whatever track you're recording to the computer. This would make your recordings alot more consitant since you don't have to re-adjust things every time. The mixer only functions as an input device and a way to monitor stuff with speakers and headphones. You mix in the software...
 
dsynthuhsize said:
ANYWAY.

I fail to see the point in using my mackie 16 VLZ mixer with my future 8in soundcard.

What would be the advantage of it.

Say I had 8 tracks with vocals BVGS & guitars. If I wanted to change a volume, or change an effect, what would be the advantage.
Click to expand...

Preamps. If you're recording 8 mics, you'll need 8 preamps. A lot of 8-in soundcards don't come with mic pres.

The mixer also gives you the flexibility to use outboard effects if you have them, create monitor submixes for the control room, headphones etc
 
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