mixing with headphones

H

homebrew

New member
Hi Everyone,

I know it is recommended to mix/edit using near-field monitors. However, sometimes, I have to shut down audio and just do things (late at night) using headphones.

Q1: Does anyone have any recommendations for headphones, or what to look for in headphones, for mixing/mastering purposes? (I would like to stay at a reasonable cost --- say a max of $150-200).

Q2: Is there any difference at all in what I should look for if I also want to use the headphones for singers to use when recording them.?. (I suspect not, but, just checking...).

Thanks to all!
-homebrew
 
I agree 100% with the article and the sentiment (don't mix with phones!!)

Another thing that page doesn't mention is the difference in the perception of bass frequencies. Very low notes are often felt in the chest or stomach. It's almost as if different parts of your body were acting as extensions of your ears. When you exclude the rest of your body from the sound experience, the bass will not be heard (felt) as strongly, and you will have a tendancy to create very bassy mixes to compensate.
 
I'm a major proponent of using both.

A lot of the listening public will be listening on headphones, so I think you need to at least check your mixes on them to make sure they're translating well.
 
I am like homebrow sometimes in the same situation that I have to put my monitors down for others in the house, and then I use my headphones.

There's nothing wrong with some rough mixes on headphones, as long as it is not your only tool.
 
After mixing a song solely with phones and then reading the article that Blue recommended, I haven't mixed with them since. The song I screwed up, I mean, mixed with phones wasn't so bad on the levels, but the panning was terrible. With phones the right channel is in the right ear and the left is in the left ear. That is not so with monitors. The stereo perception in the head is totally different in monitors and phones.
 
If you want some good tracking phones the Sennheiser HD280s are great. They have 35db of attenuation so there is very little bleed.
 
I've used Sennheiser HD280s and Sony MDR, V series phones, I personally prefer Sennheiser HD 280s for my tracking and monitoring. As always donot mix with headphones.
 
chessrock said:
I'm a major proponent of using both.

A lot of the listening public will be listening on headphones, so I think you need to at least check your mixes on them to make sure they're translating well.
Click to expand...
Well.... The thing is that one set of headphones really doesn't translate well to another. You really can't hear it on one set of phones and know much about what it will sound like in other phones. If I like it on my monitors, I'm pretty sure it will sound good on a wide variety of phones as well.
 
I've personally never finished a mix that I thought was good in the monitors that didn't translate to a good headphone sound as well.

Headphones are great for finding glitches and extraneous noise, for tracking miked vocals and instruments, and for enjoying music without disturbing others. Otherwise, take of those things and let your ears breathe!
 
Chibi Nappa said:
The thing is that one set of headphones really doesn't translate well to another. You really can't hear it on one set of phones and know much about what it will sound like in other phones.
Click to expand...

Then you need better headphones. And you should check them on more than one type of headphone. Try AKG 240's to check the highs and mids, and the Sonys for the bass.

. . . And don't forget your monitors, while you're at it. And the car stereo. And your girlfriend's boom box. And your neighbor's home stereo.
 
Yeah, what Chessrock said.

WHAT CHESSROCK SAID.

There. That ought to draw them out. And here's why I want to draw them out. Based on my experience, there isn't one listening environment (monitors, headphones, shitbox stereo player, car, diskman) which will enable you to come up with a mix that sounds good on all or most other listening environments.

If there is, I'd like to be told which one it is.
 
I thought we were talking about mixing on headphones, not checking the mix on headphones (or other setups).
 
Skysaw said:
I thought we were talking about mixing on headphones, not checking the mix on headphones (or other setups).
Click to expand...

We know.

It's just that whenever anyone brings up the idea of mixing on headphones, we just always kind of get in to this kind of stuff.

You know -- Bluebear saying your mixes will turn in to the Antichrist if you do it . . . someone else saying it's okay . . . and a bunch of other guys chiming in that you should use them just for reference (these are mostly the brown-nosers). That kind of thing.

It's just what we do around here. Don't mind us. :D
 
Sorry Bruce, I dissagree with your article.

I've studied the physiology of the ear and hearing. The inner ear is constantly adjusting to different frequencies, for example if a person is trying to pick out a certain frequency in the mid-range, the inner ear will change it's shape so it is more sensitive to that frequency. So even if someone had the "flattest" response from their monitors/room, an untrained ear could potentially throw the whole thing off by increasing the mid-range (in how the sound is processed in the brain).

So using this info, what makes an engineer good? 1) Experience on the monitors/room that they listen to, 2) experience in what they consider to be "good" recordings on such monitors/rooms, and 3) experience with picking out sonic frequencies in general.

Since the human ear adjusts from situation to situation, it can be trained in achieving an "accurate" frequency response from various sonic sources . (Accurate defined as a freq response similar to music that is considered to be mixed well.) For instance, if your monitors are a bit lacking in the low end, your ears will become more sensitive in that area (with experience of course).

I am willing to bet that if a person grew up listening to music on headphones and learned mixing on headphones, they would do a much better job mixing a song on headphones than monitors - just because that's what their ears have been experienced in adjusting to.

-Sal
 
Oh shoot, my big long post and I lost site of what the original post was about...

Q1 - If I were to buy headphones, I'd check out these guys.

http://headroom.headphone.com/layout.php

The cool thing about them is that they are honest. They'll tell you what's best in whatever situation, in whatever price-range, even if it means that they are losing money.

Q2 - Actually there is a difference. The site above suggests that unsealed headphones are more accurate overall, but sealed ones would be needed for overdubbing (so that there is minimal bleed), or if you have a loud control room. However, if you want to use one set for both, they give you good suggestions for sealed cans.

I believe one of their sealed suggestions is Beyerdynamic DT 250-80 which costs about 200 bucks from them.
 
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SalJustSal said:
Sorry Bruce, I dissagree with your article.

I've studied the physiology of the ear and hearing. The inner ear is constantly adjusting to different frequencies, for example if a person is trying to pick out a certain frequency in the mid-range, the inner ear will change it's shape so it is more sensitive to that frequency. So even if someone had the "flattest" response from their monitors/room, an untrained ear could potentially throw the whole thing off by increasing the mid-range (in how the sound is processed in the brain).

So using this info, what makes an engineer good? 1) Experience on the monitors/room that they listen to, 2) experience in what they consider to be "good" recordings on such monitors/rooms, and 3) experience with picking out sonic frequencies in general.

Since the human ear adjusts from situation to situation, it can be trained in achieving an "accurate" frequency response from various sonic sources . (Accurate defined as a freq response similar to music that is considered to be mixed well.) For instance, if your monitors are a bit lacking in the low end, your ears will become more sensitive in that area (with experience of course).

I am willing to bet that if a person grew up listening to music on headphones and learned mixing on headphones, they would do a much better job mixing a song on headphones than monitors - just because that's what their ears have been experienced in adjusting to.

-Sal
Click to expand...
I never said that one can't eventually learn to translate mixes via headphones - especially if they're so serious about sound engineering that they want to pursue it as a serious occupation and work with the details of sound and sound reproduction every single day.

But for the 95% of the hobbyists and amateurs who don't have that level of involvement - I don't care what anyone says - they simply won't get good results mixing on headphones.

Many struggle with simply getting a good sound to their recorders - proper monitoring is usually an afterthought!

Incidently - not only do I trust my sources regarding the info on the ear in my article, but my own experiences with headphones bears it out! But hey, it's ok to disagree with me! ;)
 
Yet another point. If you mix solely in headphones, you will not hear any phase cancellation between the two channels, no matter how your ears adjust.
 
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