Mixing Vocals Tip - Help

[MIKEPELLE]

Hello,

I am finishing recording a metal CD (in the vein of Killswitch Engage, Hatebreed, etc. . .). I have the music recorded for all songs and it is sounding real good. I am just starting to lay down the vocal tracks.

I just want to run a few things by everyone that I noticed while recording vox and if anyone can let me know if what i am thinking to do is proper or if there is something I should do differently. here goes:

When i record the vocals i am using very little compression on the vocals going in. The singer has a real powerful voice (for metal - he is no pavarotti). The problem is he doesnt really listen and he is inconsistent. For instance he will sing some parts way louder than others and it is becoming a chore to get proper levels for every phrase he sings. he will sing the first part of a verse on one track and then the second part of a verse on a different track and so on. I have the faders all over the place just to keep some semblance of a good consistent vocal volume throughout a song.

I was wondering is this normal? My plan is to add more compression after the tracks and maybe normalize them so that they all sit in the same general volume in the mix. i also have access to punch on the AVOX program which i never used but seems to be pretty good (not sure if this replaces Compression or works with it - anyone with AVOX know?)

I also was going to ride the faders a bit on certain sections of the songs where the vocals are less powerful or vice versa. Plus he doubles or triples certain areas of the vocals but not others and I know those doubled or tripled parts are there for emphasis but they are sometimes way louder than other words in the same chorus for instance. Again is this something that i would ride the fader up or down to even out on the singled parts to meet the volume of the doubled to some degree or does compression handle this?

Lastly I know vocals sit in the center of the PAN for a mix -but on parts that are doubled would they be panned hard left and hard right or would both tracks, one with a little delay, sit in the center pan position?

I know this is a lot (and perhaps unclear) and some things are subjective, but I just want to see if I am tackling this in a acceptable manner. Any tips would be appreciated.

As usual thanks to all those who take the time to read and reply to this.

Mike Pelle

 

[mikeyhasnobones]

mike,
more compression will certainly help with the volume problem. however, if you don't want it to sound highly compressed, you could get all of the panning and effects that you want for the vocals finalized and then, since they are all on a lot of different tracks, mix down just the vocals to one file and you would only have to ride one fader on the final mix down. as for panning and things like that, it's just whatever you feel like! i usually will pan the doubled parts by copying the doubled parts and pan them hard left and right but you can do whatever you or the band feel is necessary and sounds good to you! good luck!

 

[rayc]

MIKEPELLE,
Your best bet is to avoid compression as much as possible.
Automate the faders to address the levels as much as possible.
You could always cut & paste good bits to cover bad.
Inconsistent singers are only consistent in their commonality.
If you can't get him to rerecord with some level of consistency play back just his vocals to him to give him an idea of how poorly he has plied his craft. A very little compression going in is OK, though unchangeable.
Compression in the box might be OK if it's appropriate to the genre.
Doubled parts can be panned away from each other - though not necessarily hard panned - that's your choice. Make sure there's enough diff in the doubles (as in not cloned) and some little tweaking to ensure they are diff may be necessary otherwise you'll get louder but not better vox.
Normalizing is a dangerous thing - it'll increase EVERYTHING to the max.: hiss, rumble, fundamentals, background noise, bleed etc etc. I don't think many folk do that very often.
The singer needs to be taught how important his studio work is - why not do this by making a nice mix of the music & then drop his vox, as they are, on top for him to get an idea.

 

[TerraMortim]

melodyne =D easiest and most transparent way to fix something like that.

 

[Micter]

The guy really should spend some time working on his vocal technique then come back to record.

It might sound harsh but if a singer doesn't have good mic technique his effort will be for naught. Even if you are able to tame his vocal lines with editting/compression it's not going to sound very professional.

It can be a very difficult thing to tell someone they aren't ready to track but it's better than trying to work with bad vocal tracks.

 

[drewz0r]

I agree with the other posters that the problem is your singer.
Don't get me wrong, he might be an awesome singer for the music.. but you NEED to let him know that there is a problem with the microphone technique.
I understand you probably brought this up since you are in a position where redoing the tracking isn't ideal, but I urge you to get him back in the studio and confront him about the volume issue.

 

[mikeyhasnobones]

i have to say that i somewhat disagree with you guys
i feel that if the singer is comfortable with his mic technique (as bad as it may be) and if you feel that the performances are good then it is the engineer's job to take that and do everything he or she can to make it sound as good as possible. of course it's IMHO but performances are more important than technical perfection. and who knows, by trying to fix the volume problems you could come up with some interesting sounds. however, if it's the general consensus that the performances aren't all that special, you would be better off re-tracking them with the better mic technique.

 

[MIKEPELLE]

Thanks

Thanks for all the input. At this stage we just started tracking on a few of the songs so I think i will have him redo some parts to get some consistency.

i do agree that mic technique can be individual style, however in his case he just isnt consistent in his own style even though he does sing the heavy atuff real well. I think it may be best get him to focus more on what he is doing.

In regards to comping vox to one track - it might be tough since he sort of overlaps in certain areas (which does sound cool on certain sections) plus everything is doubled more or less. As for compression would it be best to try to get the levels as even as possible pre-compressor and then add a universal compression setting to all vocal tracks?

Thanks again for all the responses.

Mike Pelle

 

[robin watson]

i have to say that i somewhat disagree with you guys
i feel that if the singer is comfortable with his mic technique (as bad as it may be) and if you feel that the performances are good then it is the engineer's job to take that and do everything he or she can to make it sound as good as possible. of course it's IMHO but performances are more important than technical perfection. and who knows, by trying to fix the volume problems you could come up with some interesting sounds. however, if it's the general consensus that the performances aren't all that special, you would be better off re-tracking them with the better mic technique.

Very true. Sometimes the fixing can be the fun part, as you get to use quick fix techniques that get easier the next time round. All this "Go learn your craft properly" has a ring of arrogance about it. How about working with them, right there in the studio, rather than telling them to 'go learn' (and expect them to run back grateful in your wisdom)? I'd rather hone the skills to handle such problems rather than lose potential work.

Compression will help
Fader automation will certainly help
Cutting and pasting is a great tool also for this

That said, if it's REALLY all over the place...(!)...point out the problems, suggest a retrack and coach him along. If you're getting paid for the time it takes to get the job done, what's the problem?

 

[jaybriggs84]

record it the best you can, i would recommend not using compression on the way in. if his levels are all over the place like you say they are, you can zoom in on the track and the phrases that stick out the most adjust the gain. you might need to cross fade if you get pops/clicks. then you can use automation where you need it and then apply compression to the vocal to keep it at a good consistant level throughout your mix. hope this helps

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

How is the performance OTHER than level?

As irritated as I get with inconsisent vocalists... its a good time to remember that the recording serves the artist and not the other way around. If it takes faders all over the place to get the best performance then that's the best way to do it. Its a headache at every step of the process but if that "singer' has to start thinking about the performance it'll be even worse.

In the past I have had the "singer" do several passes through the song- the frist half I'll do with the mic level set for the loudest passages and the other half with the level set for the quiter parts. It'll clip madly during the loud parts... but you're only interested in the quiter passages on that take.

Then comp it together and do your dynamics processing then. I haven't normalized anything for years- better to manually automate the gain for any passages that are radically different.

The magic of Hollywood...

 

[rayc]

I'm getting old - I forgot the last session I recorded.
the vocalist is good but some level inconsistencies & more importantly some of the phrases were complicated breathing wise.
We sat doen and sorted the lyrics into the difficult breathing sections.
The vocalist then recorded tow takes one of the lyric without the difficult section & the next just the difficult section.
The two takes were, internally, much more even & consistent.
After much fader automation to run from one to the other as well as adjusting the levels PLUS a little blockfish I had a quite good vocal line.
You can hear the results in After the Burning at...
http://www.soundclick.com/pygmybeat
This also allowed me some cool results with some lines flowing over others etc where we'd discussed and decided such might be worth trying.
Something to think about in dealing with your issue anyway.

 

[MIKEPELLE]

Thanks

Thanks for all the responses. Definitely feel like I have a couple of new good ways to handle this.

I think I will have him re-record some of the more troublesome spots but these tips should help out.


Thanks

Mike Pelle

 

[surfmaster]

create sends from all the vocal tracks to one buss track that will be your master vocal track. mute their main outputs and have all of the signal go to the buss. automate those sends to adjust volume.

 

[89gtsleeper]

One other thing I don't think was mentioned... is the inconsistency in his vocal level related to him moving closer and farther from the mic??? That's one of the biggest things you have to stress is keeping the same distance to the mic.

 

[MIKEPELLE]

Hello

Yes i think that is the problem for the most part is that he moves close to the mic on some parts and pulls away on others. i have him in a different room, since my studio is basically, in my house so i cannot watch him. but that is what i think the problem is for the most part.

The other thing is on some parts if he is doubling a phrase he will sing the double part louder than the first go round. he thinks he is helping but I tell him I can handle the volume on the mixer just sing it the way its supposed to be sung.

He will be back here tomorrow so i am going to use some of the advice here and point out a few particularly troublesome parts and get him to understand what I am talking about and to focus more on what he is doing - not to rush. We will re-record a few things for sure

Again the responses from all were very informative and helpful so thanks again. I have been recording for years but always as the musician - I am just getting comfortable being the man behind the board.

Mike Pelle

 

[Sinistah]

Yes i think that is the problem for the most part is that he moves close to the mic on some parts and pulls away on others. i have him in a different room, since my studio is basically, in my house so i cannot watch him. but that is what i think the problem is for the most part.

The other thing is on some parts if he is doubling a phrase he will sing the double part louder than the first go round. he thinks he is helping but I tell him I can handle the volume on the mixer just sing it the way its supposed to be sung.

He will be back here tomorrow so i am going to use some of the advice here and point out a few particularly troublesome parts and get him to understand what I am talking about and to focus more on what he is doing - not to rush. We will re-record a few things for sure

Again the responses from all were very informative and helpful so thanks again. I have been recording for years but always as the musician - I am just getting comfortable being the man behind the board.

Mike Pelle

if he does his doubles louder than his main vocals, just make his double his main vocals and his main's as his double/sub vocals......

if he goes in too close at some parts and then away on others, you can EQ things and then probably normalize the track to even things out and then maybe a slight usage of a limiter as opposed to compression if you feel the need to make things louder, the problem i have with compression of vocals is that it can dead frequencies that are key to things like the enunciation of words in some cases...... but if the vocals need warmth or a lil color then slight compression is not a problem for that, but just to boost the volume, i'd pass on it and either tell him to re-take the verse or use a limiter....

i do hip-hop music, so i'm not sure if anything differs from genre to genre, but thats just my approach to what seems to be the problem....


good luck and have fun with the session!!!!

 

[Robert D]

One other thing I don't think was mentioned... is the inconsistency in his vocal level related to him moving closer and farther from the mic??? That's one of the biggest things you have to stress is keeping the same distance to the mic.

Often true, but not always. If it's a singer who has to "hit" the high notes, they may need to work the mic a bit.

On compression - It's the worst possible way to deal with an overly dynamic vocal track. Constantly jumping from heavy compression to no compression sounds wierd. Fader automation is OK, but I prefer to use the editor where you can draw volume curves or use object volume handles, or comp. But there's always the timber issue; if you try to even out wildly different vocal meanderings they will end up the same level, but not the same timber and inflection. At some point you just have to say it's a bad take, sing it better.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Hello,

The singer has a real powerful voice (for metal - he is no pavarotti). The problem is he doesnt really listen and he is inconsistent.

You might want to check out the monitoring system you are using for him. Is it too soft or too loud?

Make sure he is listening and can hear himself get loud. Have him review the tracks and point out the problem.

Work on the singing and mic technique, don't fix it in the mix.

 

[robin watson]

You might want to check out the monitoring system you are using for him. Is it too soft or too loud?

Make sure he is listening and can hear himself get loud. Have him review the tracks and point out the problem.

Work on the singing and mic technique, don't fix it in the mix.

Good advice right there.