mixing vocals , need engineers to help

Track it properly to begin with. In a well-treated (acoustically, that is) room, with a good microphone appropriate to the singer.

Really, there can't be any fixed answer as each singer is different, as is each song - instruments, style, etc.
 
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There are settings that can help your vocals sit in the mix. First do the above^ After your vocal has been tracked knock a few db off at 4:1 ratio with a good compressor, put in a limiter after that and knock a few db off that. This will compress quite a bit without being very noticeable. Another neat trick (optional) is too create a copy of your vocal track then crush it with a tube compressor with the saturation up full. Mix this with your original track, it will add a nice fullness to the vocal. When mixing backups I usually set up a right and left vocal buss, with similar settings and maybe a hard panning effect so the backups sound wide left and right, and the lead is dead center. I may use a small amount of room reverb, but generally avoid reverbs.

Pete
 
thank , but im think im trying to ask how to create space for a vocal so that nothing but the drums over power the vocal ,
 
Are you sure you want the drums to over power the vocal? If that's what you are really trying to achieve then try starting your mix with your drums first and make the drums take up as much space as you want them to have. Next, bring up your vocal but don't prioritize it over the drums. This is just a tip on a subject that can be discussed for a while.

What genre of music are you making?
 
head over to my blog, I've got a nice article that I think would help you out thekidcitizen . com / blog its called, "Covering the Spectrum : A guide into Equalization"
 
I typically "mix into" my mastering bus from the beginning. I start with kick drum and add in a few other drums, then bass (and make sure everyone is getting along well in the spectrum)... THEN Vocals. I compress vocals a lot (maybe over-compress, but I'm ok with that... I do a lot of pop and rock). Also, I have stacks of vocals (2-4 of the lead vocal in the choruses), and all the BGVs are doubled/tripled as well. They're all edited to be pretty tight so it doesn't sound like a choir. Then I bring in all the other melodic instruments (piano and guitars always try to compete with the vocals for space, so carve out a spot for the vocals with your EQ...). Pan other instruments (toms, guitars, keys, etc) away from the center and let the vocals have that. Don't neglect automation. Manually ride faders, or draw in the volume automation in your DAW. A lot of times I will put a compressor on a guitar bus and key it off of the vocal, so when the vocalist is singing, the guitars duck it a little and pop back up at the end of the phrase.

...I'm rambling.
 
mistervenable said:
I typically "mix into" my mastering bus from the beginning. I start with kick drum and add in a few other drums, then bass (and make sure everyone is getting along well in the spectrum)... THEN Vocals. I compress vocals a lot (maybe over-compress, but I'm ok with that... I do a lot of pop and rock). Also, I have stacks of vocals (2-4 of the lead vocal in the choruses), and all the BGVs are doubled/tripled as well. They're all edited to be pretty tight so it doesn't sound like a choir. Then I bring in all the other melodic instruments (piano and guitars always try to compete with the vocals for space, so carve out a spot for the vocals with your EQ...). Pan other instruments (toms, guitars, keys, etc) away from the center and let the vocals have that. Don't neglect automation. Manually ride faders, or draw in the volume automation in your DAW. A lot of times I will put a compressor on a guitar bus and key it off of the vocal, so when the vocalist is singing, the guitars duck it a little and pop back up at the end of the phrase.

...I'm rambling.
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Not rambling, just sounds like you took the summary of 15 articles and copied them in 1 post that comes across as such...
 
This may sound corny but the vocals in any song tell the story. I always want the vocals as the center piece during the verse. the freq range people hear vocals in is around 1.5 to 4 k depending on the type. also pay attention to the meters, thats what they are there for. You can get into all the comps, effects, but get the basics down first. I went on the road with Ray Price as a FOH engineer years ago and it scared me to death. I was a rock and roll guy and his music was old school and very simple. I listened to tapes (yes tapes) of him for weeks trying to get his sound down. I left out most of the 50 grand rack I had and mixed him clean. An old gentleman came up to me after the show and said when he looked at me with the hair and the ear ring he almost left. he said he saw him 30 years ago and he sounded the same that night. sometimes you just have to keep it simple.
 
mistervenable said:
Nope, just a guy that's been doing this a while, sharing what I know with those who don't. Be well!
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I wasn't harshing on you man. Just sounded funny to me.

I appreciate any and all input on this forum. I would not be where I am without all that I have learned here. Sorry if I came across as being condescending. Welcome to the forum MV!

:)
 
jimmys69 said:
I wasn't harshing on you man. Just sounded funny to me.

I appreciate any and all input on this forum. I would not be where I am without all that I have learned here. Sorry if I came across as being condescending. Welcome to the forum MV!

:)
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Thanks man! We're all good :)
 
The main rule for mixing vocals is that there are no rules. You really have to treat every track individually.

Well, that's not QUITE true. The first bit of advice to get things as near perfect as possible during tracking is the bet tip ever. Adding more and more processing to compensate for errors during the recording is always a bad idea. Processing during mixing should be to help things sit nicely in the mix, not to correct errors in the original recording.

However, some general suggestions:

I almost always use some compression on vocals. How much? It depends. However, most vocals have a relatively wide dynamic range and you often need to reduce this or risk losing the subtleties once the vocal is mixed with the music.

EQ can help the intelligibility of vocals and also help them stand out a bit. The fundamentals for most voices are in the 200-500 Hz range (depending on the voice) and a very slight amount of boost at the proper point can help the intelligibility. Similarly, a small amount of boost at higher frequencies (say +/- 8kHz) can add a bit of sparkle and "air" to the vocal. Keep this subtle though--you want things to still sound natural.

Third, it can often help to "cut a hole" in the music tracks with EQ just in the main range of the vocals. Again, this will likely be in the 200-500Hz range--once you're happy with the mix, bus all the music together and add some very slight EQ cut (probably 3 or 4 dB, max 6dB) just around the vocal fundamentals. Again, keep it subtle.

Finally, unless you record in the perfect environment, some subtle reverb helps almost all vocals. Use it sparingly...you don't want it to sound like the Grand Canyon, just put the vocals in a "space", not just a dead acoustic.

All these things have to be done by ear though--there are no magic numbers to plug in on a "one size fits all" basis.
 
You have a 4 dimensional soundspace to work with.

Left-right placement, using pan/balance, M/S, and phase/timing (experimental).

Top to bottom, frequency dependant, this is (arguably) the most sure-fire way to separate instruments.

Front to back, using reverberation and delay, with a side order of EQ.

Timing...not, or deliberately overlapping parts that compete in other areas listed above.

So...you could carve out a space for vocals, or the reverse approach, fitting all else around them, by centering them LR, (common) or panning them to one side (less common), adjusting vocal EQ or other parts EQ or a combi of both, moving them front (less delay or reverb, common) or back (more delay or verb, rare), or by arrangement, backing off or eliminating other parts during different parts of the piece.

There is another variable related to front/back placement, namely amplitude, where you have two possibilities, fader adjustment, and compression.

If I were asking myself this question, I'd start by isolating ALL the effects described above, one at a time, to see what my tradeoffs were, then experiment with combining two at once, till I had a solid understanding of how they inter-relate, then identify specific problems in specific songs, and use single or multiple techniques to resolve them.

One very common approach is to use some EQ, panning, and reverb to separate guitars and certain keyboard patches (including orchestral backing) from your vocals, reverb and EQ to separate drums from vocals since both are usually centered left to right, and frequency separation between bass and vocals, where you have to be careful since some of the bass definition comes from higher resonances in the vocal range.

Beyond this, there are infinite possibilities, which form a large part of the art of mixing. Experiment and define your own priorities once you have the basics in hand, and use reference material, songs you like that are recorded by others, if you value potential commercial success.
 
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