M
MDodds
New member
is is okay to eq a instrumental around the 10,000/15,000 frequency range by -2 db's to leave a pocket for vocals? jw
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Is it OK?
Yeah...whatever works for the mix.
One thing though...-2dB at 10k-15k Hz isn't going to leave much of a pocket for vocals since most voices don't really get up in that range.
Human vocals are usually in the 80 Hz to 1100 Hz range.
Yeah...whatever works for the mix.
One thing though...-2dB at 10k-15k Hz isn't going to leave much of a pocket for vocals since most voices don't really get up in that range.
Human vocals are usually in the 80 Hz to 1100 Hz range.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Even Mariah Carey doesn't sing up above 10K Hz!!! You can crank your instrumentals -20dB in that range and you won't be making any 'vocal room'!!
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Voice fundamentals may be in the 100Hz-1kHz range but important harmonics go way up. The range of vocal clarity and definition is about 2-4kHz. Above that are harmonics that add to definition without being as critical to intelligibility. Sibilance is in the range of 3-10kHz. A little dip around 3kHz can let the vocal shine through.
M
mrkardashian
New member
I usually eq around the 3-5k range or 8k.
C
CraigCyril
Banned
A better mic & mic preamp can help quite a bit. If you have the right tools to start with, you don't have to do much to make it sound right. The quality of this program is rarely rivaled and has an easy interface. One of the best features? It's free!An interesting application with Audacity is that you can record your voice and edit it.
B
benage
New member
One thing to bear in mind is where you centre the dip in the other instruments will affect the way the vocal sounds. If your dip is centred around say 1khz you vocal will sound deeper and fuller than if it's centred around 3khz as they are the frequencies from the vocal that will come through.
It does depend on your voice and the key that your singing in where the right place is, a common centre for the scoop is 1-3khz, I would put in a scoop in the backing around here (quite a wide scoop, maybe 3-4db deep in centre to start) then move it around with the music playing to find a place that suits it, you could also try temporally boosting a narrow band by about 15db on the vocal (solo'ed) and sweep it across to find out where your bulk of energy is in the vocal.
P.S I think Miro's post might have been a typo, he probably meant 80hz—11000hz not 1100hz.
It does depend on your voice and the key that your singing in where the right place is, a common centre for the scoop is 1-3khz, I would put in a scoop in the backing around here (quite a wide scoop, maybe 3-4db deep in centre to start) then move it around with the music playing to find a place that suits it, you could also try temporally boosting a narrow band by about 15db on the vocal (solo'ed) and sweep it across to find out where your bulk of energy is in the vocal.
P.S I think Miro's post might have been a typo, he probably meant 80hz—11000hz not 1100hz.
mjbphotos
Moderator
A an octave above middle 'C' is 880 Hz. If a singer can hit the 'C' an octave above that (fret 15 on the high E string of a guitar) that's ~1500Hz, yes there are harmonic frequencies, but not as much in a voice as in a stringed instrument.
Last edited:
B
Bisson820
New member
what if you top out full voice at around G above C5?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Nope...no typo...I was talking about fundamentals not harmonics.
If the OP wants to make room for his vocals, the fundamentals' range is where it will count. Opening up a "hole" in the 10k to 15k Hz area will not help vocals that much.
Audio Frequency Chart
As someone already pointed out...the cello and violin live in the same fundamental (and harmonic) range as vocals...so that's where the problem is. Of course, many other instruments also cover the same basic range...so it's not just a question of cutting away with some EQ.
I say panning, levels and a mix of wet/dry is the key...with a touch of EQ.
B
benage
New member
Oh, Ok sorry.
Yeah a dip in the 10,000hz to 15,000hz wouldn't help much but sometimes people do centre their cut a bit higher than 1100hz, you seemed to be saying this 80hz-1100hz range was the area to cut in the backing, but you wouldn't centre your cut bang on the fundamental range of the melody your singing as this would make the centre of the scoop somewhere in the low-mids if sung in a common key and wouldn't sound good.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No...I said whatever works for the mix....and that the vocal range is around 80-1100 Hz, so cutting around 10k-15k Hz won't do much to make room.
Where you center your cut is where it works for the mix...and of course, how deep and wide the cut is also key.
I don't usually do scoops on one sound to make room for another, as that can become a tug of war. What I mostly do is watch for build up of similar frequencies. So...if there are 2-3 instruments each with a lot of 200-300Hz...I'll roll off a pinch on all three, rather than scoop one so the others can stay as-is.
I also will lightly EQ out some resonant/spikey frequencies of each track, gently smoothing out frequency anomalies to a degree, and then tracks don't fight with each other as much even if they are in the same frequency range.
I only focus on EQ after I've done my panning, level and wet/dry processing...which already goes a long way toward "separating out" similar frequency ranges.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
How much harmonic content is irrelevant. What matters is how important it is to the sound of the instrument or voice. All that stuff above 2kHz is critical for vocal clarity. Even if a singer can barely hit 440Hz you can't just low pass him at 500Hz or 1kHz or even 2kHz. Even on a voice like that there's important content above 10kHz.
B
benage
New member
Well to me, If someone asks should I cut between 10,000hz and 15,000hz in the backing to make room for a vocal and you say cutting 10,000hz-15,000hz won't help you make room as vocal range is between 80hz-1100hz, that sort of implies that's more where they should be cutting.
I'm not saying this is what you believe, that's why I thought you meant 80hz-11,000hz, as this is roughly the full range of most vocals including harmonics, It was just the way it was worded confused me.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Just for clarity...you wouldn't be touching the vocal anyway in the OP's scenario...you would instead scoop the instruments in the vocal's range to make room for the vocals. What "center point" you use on the instrument's EQ...that's really up to how it sounds.
There's no implication on my part that you would use the dead-center of the entire vocal range as your scoop center for the instruments. IOW...you may not (probably not) ever need to use the entire fundamental range for your scoop range.
You find what works for the mix...the actual range of the scoop may only be a portion of the full vocal range.
There's no implication on my part that you would use the dead-center of the entire vocal range as your scoop center for the instruments. IOW...you may not (probably not) ever need to use the entire fundamental range for your scoop range.
You find what works for the mix...the actual range of the scoop may only be a portion of the full vocal range.
B
benage
New member
Ok cool, it's getting late here and I've made any points I had in previous posts.
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Its all in the mids for vocals. The low mids can be cut in the vocals to get rid of muddyness and high mids can be boosted (and instrumental high mids cut) to get the vocals to have their own space.
Vocals can be one of the hardest parts of mixing so as to get the vocals sitting in the mix but also having the right amount of presence.
G (Ecktronic)
Vocals can be one of the hardest parts of mixing so as to get the vocals sitting in the mix but also having the right amount of presence.
G (Ecktronic)
M
MDodds
New member
thank for all the answers. I was just posting something random so I can have 5 threads LOL but I did learn a little bit, so once again thanks for replying