Mixing secrets by sonusman

[Harvey Gerst]

Perhaps his point is that anybody could sign up with the mixerman user name, but this particular fella has had that name since 2002, so it seems unlikely it's anybody else.

Mixerman joined here in 2002 mainly in response to the mixing thread I linked to earlier in this thread.

Earlier in this thread, someone asked what a "real professional" was doing posting in a home recording forum, instead of a "professional recording engineers" forum?

Well Mixerman DOES have his own forum at prosoundweb, where he's joined by the likes of Steve Albini, Ed Cherney, George Massenburg, Rail J. Rogut, Terry Manning, Randy Nicklaus, William Wittman, and Bob Ohlsson, to name just a few professional engineers Mixerman knows.

 

[corban]

And please ignore the bitter asswipes and trolls who like to talk smack. I'm certain that 99% of the people posting and browsing this forum would love to hear any advice you are willing to offer.

Agreed ...

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

BUT, y'all think you got some famous guy on hand here who you wanna suck his...

Well, even the 14 year old's on the board usually have enough experience on the 'net to understand that there is no way of knowing who you're dealing with. That's why I brought this thread back to the top so newer folks could see some of the more valuable things you've posted, Ed. That's the only way to get a sense over time of who you're dealing with online.

Also, after a while of having conversations about any particular art, I've found that its generally only the newer folks and hobbyists who easily agree on how things *should* be done. Professionals don't say things like "Oh, man, ALWAYS run your guitars through a tube Marshall full stack. Its the ONLY way to get a pro sound."

The professionals usually have a broader palette of experiences and know that there are many ways to accomplish the same thing. Some argue about it (not very professional behavior) some don't. Most professionals I know, in any field, don't take it personally or get upset when someone doesn't agree with them. Its just a matter of course.

For me its not a competition about who is more right or who's "side" who is on. I just like the conversation and I'll let my own willingness to experiment give me the tools I need to figure out what works for me.

-Chris

 

[Mixerman]

Perhaps his point is that anybody could sign up with the mixerman user name, but this particular fella has had that name since 2002, so it seems unlikely it's anybody else.

Prima Facie Evidence?

Oh and Harvey. As my good friend always says. It's not about the money, it's about the money!

Frankly, what I make or don't make doing mixes is irrelevant. There are guys that make considerably more than I do mixing, who don't have the skill set, nor the inclination, to share what they know. Further, I don't feel there is any more expensive mix engineer in the world that somehow knows more than I do about the art of mixing. So, I don't view what I get paid as having any bearing on the quality of my advice. After all, I did your project for far less than my usual rate, so obviously, what I charge is a sliding scale.

I'm here offering my (sometimes caustic) opinions, as someone who is knowlegeable as a mixer, and understands the struggles of becoming a good one. It would have been great if when I was learning, there were boards like this one, or like RAP or like the PSW forums. I learned the hard way, with almost no help, and maybe I'm better off for it, I don't know. But if I can give back some of what I've learned, and someone benefits from it, then I'm happy. If the result of my post is that someone becomes more convinced of a position opposite to mine, then I'm even happier.

This isn't about rank. I'm comfortable posting anonymously, and don't feel any need to prove myself. One should make decisions on what I know, or what I don't know, based on my words. If what I post makes senes, then try it for yourself. Ultimately, people must develop their own way of working. I'm just supplying my perspective, albeit often times counter to the conventional thinking. But isn't that in vogue now?

I believe they call it, thinking "out of the box." In most circles, that's a figurative notion. In our case, this could be taken slightly more literally, given the current audio definition of "the box."

I find certain irony in that.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

I learned the hard way, with almost no help, and maybe I'm better off for it, I don't know.

Do I recall Harvey quoting you as saying Mixing can't be taught- it can only be learned?

You probably are better off in some ways for having learned it the hard way. I'm not sure many of us really have that "luxury" any more. Its always been only a few people who can do it that way (regardless of the skill- I've studied how people learn) and the rest have to muddle along with what time and insight we can bring to it.

My personal opinion is that with audio quality in a general nose dive and Pro Tools nearly a household word every shred of advice (causticly offered or otherwise) is adding to the general success and well being of audio as a whole. I tend to think co-operatively anyway, but I suspect that the home audio revolution will eventually serve to bolster pro audio- kinda like many digital recordists are seeking out tape these days to see what they've been missing, good and bad. People will eventually demand high quality recordings again.

Take care,
Chris

 

[PD9L]

Guys, I've been pondering this weighty subject matter at great length since it's surfaced. I've spent countless hours pondering the pros and cons of it all ... and I've come to a decision on this. Considering the worst-case scenario: for one tiny fraction of a second there might be a barely-perceptible artifact from over working the mastering limiter at that particular point in the song. Or maybe one guy might be listening someday and say: "Ya know, that's a great song, but at 40 seconds in, there's this kick that sounds a little loud."

For that reason, I'm afraid I have to side with Ed on this one. Just zoom in on that bugger and bring it down. Sorry mix. I realize you know way more about this stuff than I ... but I think your method is a little lazy. C'mon, Mix. What are you paying DJ Fast Fingaz for anyway? Isn't he supposed to do all that stuff for you? Maybe if you spent less time relieving yourself on his parka, he'd volume-envelope that kick hit for you.

Thank you!

 

[corban]

Mixerman

I should clarify that my post was really not meant skeptically, I was just trying to explain another's potential viewpoint about how you might be a newbie. It's a good point you make though, arguing about who is who and has done what is primarily just a pissing contest, and it's the strongest ones who care the least about them. It does help us advice-takers to weed the good from the bad if we know that the advice we're reading is coming from a wealth of knowledge, but also, like you say, sometimes the proof is in the pudding. If somebody tells us not to solo your instruments and EQ them all big and rich, but to EQ everything its own space, we can go ahead and try it and see if it works. If it works, it's advice to take.

 

[AardvarkPSW]

... It's about the money!

Frankly, There are guys that I do. I get paid bearing on the quality of my advice. After all, I did you for far less than my usual rate.

I learned the hard way, with almost no But.

I'm comfortable posting "out." In most circles, that's a figurative notion, given the current audio definition of "the box ", I find certain irony in that.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

This certainly appears to be Mixerman or Kenny The Drum sample Pimp sending him up!


Hehehehehe



Cheers,
Aardvark


P.S. Hello Bruce, long time...go Habs go!

 

[PD9L]

Prima Facie Evidence?

Oh and Harvey. As my good friend always says. It's not about the money, it's about the money!

Frankly, what I make or don't make doing mixes is irrelevant. There are guys that make considerably more than I do mixing, who don't have the skill set, nor the inclination, to share what they know. Further, I don't feel there is any more expensive mix engineer in the world that somehow knows more than I do about the art of mixing. So, I don't view what I get paid as having any bearing on the quality of my advice. After all, I did your project for far less than my usual rate, so obviously, what I charge is a sliding scale.

I'm here offering my (sometimes caustic) opinions, as someone who is knowlegeable as a mixer, and understands the struggles of becoming a good one. It would have been great if when I was learning, there were boards like this one, or like RAP or like the PSW forums. I learned the hard way, with almost no help, and maybe I'm better off for it, I don't know. But if I can give back some of what I've learned, and someone benefits from it, then I'm happy. If the result of my post is that someone becomes more convinced of a position opposite to mine, then I'm even happier.

This isn't about rank. I'm comfortable posting anonymously, and don't feel any need to prove myself. One should make decisions on what I know, or what I don't know, based on my words. If what I post makes senes, then try it for yourself. Ultimately, people must develop their own way of working. I'm just supplying my perspective, albeit often times counter to the conventional thinking. But isn't that in vogue now?

I believe they call it, thinking "out of the box." In most circles, that's a figurative notion. In our case, this could be taken slightly more literally, given the current audio definition of "the box."

I find certain irony in that.

Enjoy,

Mixerman

Cool. Then shut the fuck up and start SHARING something useful then! The original posts were done many years ago, and specific to stuff happening at the time, and was MOST helpful to those at the time.

You can follow suit by not shitting in here with sarcasm. Indeed, that was your FIRST post in this thread, a sarcastic jab at me DOING the very thing you have thus far only talked about doing here.

I am not some clown, and a careful review of events as they have transpired would show anybody that took the time to read and try to understand what they read that you basically just came in with a attitude and poking fun and stuff I said, when in fact, you don't even know WHY I said it.

The fact is, chessrock is right above, to compress a whole fucking mix because of a few kick drum hits that could have been dealt with in a better way? I don't know, but man, 5 years ago, the best compressor most people on this website had was a fucking Alesis 3630! Would you STILL compress that mix with that? Or maybe, just maybe, you might go back and maybe remix, and turn down those few kicks drums?

And more to the point, when was the last time you did any serious mixing in an untreated drywalled bedroom using crap speakers? (if you EVER had done that!) Until you have struggled with that scenario for a while, not being able to hear things as they really are, you won't quite get the brilliance of the idea of taking a look at your final mix in a .wav editor to spot some problems.

One of the reasons why much of my advice was followed around here for so many years is because I would put myself in the position of the person posting, and make specific recommendations on how to possibly solve their problems. One of the biggest mistakes other "pro" engineers make coming in a BBS like this is that they DON'T fully understand what the problem as, and make a wrong assumption, and let their big azz ego get in the way of being helpful! They "think" they know what the person was talking about, obviously didn't, but keep INSISTING that the original poster has it all wrong.

Whatever.........Seen it all again and again. What made this site great was a few of us really tried to give real world solutions to real world problems real world home recording engineers were facing, and those solutions WORKED!

So, while you have an "opinion" that viewing your mix in a audio editor is the wrong approach to fixing a problem, that approach DID HELP MANY with the problems they were having.

Yeah, I have thrown a Cranesong STC-8 over the master bus. But I didn't do it to control a few errent kick drums. I did it because it has a more "general" type of effect on the mix that was pleasing. Not ever mix NEEDS that, nor does every mix NEED a few errent kick drum hits that the poor listening environment more or less hides, fixed!

So you are the real Mixerman. BFD! Your PROVEN fame is a fable story about recording a band. Certainly doesn't give you a free license to be a shithead!

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

Welcome aboard, Aardvark.

Funny little interaction that brought you over here, isn't it? There's actually only 1 person that I've seen here so far that is really all that concerned about Mixerman's anonymous identity. And he's working on his 3rd or 4th time being banned.

The rest of the conversation is usually pretty good here, though.

Take care,
Chris

 

[Mixerman]

So you are the real Mixerman. BFD! Your PROVEN fame is a fable story about recording a band. Certainly doesn't give you a free license to be a shithead!

Is that a chip on your pelvis or are you just glad to see me?

Mixerman

 

[PD9L]

Probably a chip on my pelvis!

Now shut the fuck up and go teach people how to mix stuff!

 

[fraserhutch]

This certainly appears to be Mixerman or Kenny The Drum sample Pimp sending him up!


Hehehehehe



Cheers,
Aardvark


P.S. Hello Bruce, long time...go Habs go!

If you are indeed from Montreal, then I hang my head in shame.........

 

[Gidge]

Mixerman joined here in 2002 mainly in response to the mixing thread I linked to earlier in this thread.

Earlier in this thread, someone asked what a "real professional" was doing posting in a home recording forum, instead of a "professional recording engineers" forum?

Well Mixerman DOES have his own forum at prosoundweb, where he's joined by the likes of Steve Albini, Ed Cherney, George Massenburg, Rail J. Rogut, Terry Manning, Randy Nicklaus, William Wittman, and Bob Ohlsson, to name just a few professional engineers Mixerman knows.

Doesn't Eric Sarafin post there also?....

 

[chessrock]

Behave, Gidge.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Doesn't Eric Sarafin post there also?....

Oh God, not that old tired arguement again. People have suggested a dozen different people as Mixerman's identity at rec.audio.pro, and at prosound web, and yes, Eric Sarafin's name did come up as a possible candidate, but it was generally agreed by everybody that he wasn't Mixerman.

Eric does hang out at the Song Critique Corner in the Marsh at Prosoundweb, but he's never been to my forum at the Recpit. I met Eric once at an AES show and he seems to be a pretty nice guy, but I'm not really familiar with any of his work.

 

[Gidge]

Oh God, not that old tired arguement again. People have suggested a dozen different people as Mixerman's identity at rec.audio.pro, and at prosound web, and yes, Eric Sarafin's name did come up as a possible candidate, but it was generally agreed by everybody that he wasn't Mixerman.

Eric does hang out at the Song Critique Corner in the Marsh at Prosoundweb, but he's never been to my forum at the Recpit. I met Eric once at an AES show and he seems to be a pretty nice guy, but I'm not really familiar with any of his work.

yeah ok....

 

[Barish]

I just registered to drop a quick note. I own and administer a portal at http://www.muziktek.com where the people from Turkish music industry hang out, along with many homerecordists like here. Basically I'm Googleable.


Whether you would want him to mix your album if you knew who he is is irrelevant, but suffice to say that Mixerman is real deal. He's on my Skype. 24/7.


I also have some 9-10 albums that he's mixed in front of me on the shelve. If I had the budget arranged today, God knows he'd be mixing my record.


I totally agree the point in saying that mixing can't be taught, but only learned. If one doesn't have the capacity to take it in, how can you teach them in the first place?

Doesn't Eric Sarafin post there also?....

Yes, he moderates the Song Critique forum in MARSH along with Aardvark. I know him too. The stuff he's done for Ben Harper is great, I also like the recent Hilary Duff mixes that he's done. But the other rap stuff is not my thing.



Anyway, I have far too many discussion boards that I'm already involved in so I don't really care if saying this makes me expelled from here, so let me say it before I go:


R2D2, don't be a twat. You're not doing yourself any favours by being obnoxious.

B.

 

[AardvarkPSW]

If you are indeed from Montreal, then I hang my head in shame.........

Please explain.

If this is a hockey related comment, and you are indeed from Washington...you must be kidding!! Washington is to hockey what Washington is to bi-partisan governance!


Washington Capitals (clever name eh!)....

...Perhaps the greatest playoff failure team in the history of the NHL.





Where were we?


Cheers,
RocketRichardVark

 

[mshilarious]

Washington Capitals (clever name eh!)....

...Perhaps the greatest playoff failure team in the history of the NHL.

Back when the Caps really really sucked, c. 1982 or so, I went to a Caps vs. Canadiens game. The Caps lost like 9-0. The last goal was scored when one of the last helmetless Canadiens (I think the Caps didn't have Langway yet ) broke out from his end, skated the length of the ice alone and tapped it in an empty net

Anyway, I don't know any of these fellows here, but Mr. Sarafin and Mixerman share the use of the word "kik" with two frequent posters here: ecktronic and RAMI. Perhaps they are all the same person

PS Kirkland, WA would be Washington state, not city