snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
That Jp22 recording is nothing short of revolutionary. That's the most pissed off typewriter I've ever heard in my life!
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Just from the posting style and hanging around with him for a few years, it is indeed the real Mixerman. As far as his not contributing here, I posted an interchange about mixing here several years ago, and I included a large post of his about mixing (http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=410079&postcount=26), so some of his valuable contributions to this board were already here before he even arrived.
Is Mixerman the real deal? You bet your ass he is. We've used him for some stuff we recorded here and the results were stunning. Was he expensive? Yes, in terms of money; no, in terms of results.
Mixerman is a great guy to hang out with, and funny as hell. Just don't try to follow him thru downtown rush hour traffic in L.A., unless you have nerves of steel. I consider him a friend and a true professional. Like Fletcher at Mercenary Audio, he doesn't need me defending him; he can do that quite nicely by himself.
If you wanna ignore Mixerman's advice, you do so at your own risk. He can help you make better recording - if you listen to him. He knows what he's talking about.
Is Mixerman the real deal? You bet your ass he is. We've used him for some stuff we recorded here and the results were stunning. Was he expensive? Yes, in terms of money; no, in terms of results.
Mixerman is a great guy to hang out with, and funny as hell. Just don't try to follow him thru downtown rush hour traffic in L.A., unless you have nerves of steel. I consider him a friend and a true professional. Like Fletcher at Mercenary Audio, he doesn't need me defending him; he can do that quite nicely by himself.
If you wanna ignore Mixerman's advice, you do so at your own risk. He can help you make better recording - if you listen to him. He knows what he's talking about.
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Mixerman
New member
UB802 said:
Headroom in a mix has nothing to do with it. It's all about the mix itself, whether it works, doesn't work, and why.
What a mix looks like in the wave editor is irrelevant. I can think of mixes I've done, in which the left side is drastically louder than the right for the entire mix. If I used my eyes to make decisions on that particular mix, I would have backed down on the hard panned guitar. To my ears, the asymmetry was the right approach.
If the mix sounds cool with a kik drum too loud, then there is nothing wrong with that. If it was the young mixer's intention to have a drastically loud kik drum, then he did a good job of it. No matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks, we are merely discussing opinions.
In my experience, when someone makes something "too loud" in a mix, there is usually a reason for it, aside from the assumption of a poor listening environment. IF I suggest that the kik drum is too loud, then I should have at LEAST one concrete reason as to why I think that. This reason would have nothing to do with headroom in a mix (barring overs) and everything to do with how that kik drum is affecting the feeling of the mix itself.
For instance:
"The kik drum is completely out of place and removes focus from the entire band."
This would be a valid argument, in my view, as to why the kik drum might be too loud. But that argument is merely an opinion, no matter how experienced I am, and no matter how many other experienced people agreed.
What I wouldn't do is try to convince someone that if their mix doesn't look right it isn't right. And I most certainly wouldn't encourage using their eyes as a crutch to make determinations their ears should be making, regardless of their ability or lack thereof to make such auditory determinations. And if you, as a critic, believe this person is in a listening environment that is veiling problems in their mix, then say it. Certainly this would be divulged in a new listening environment. Frankly, I've never met a new mixer that wasn't excited to hear their early mixes outside of the room, and disappointed after doing so.
The more likely scenario is the neophyte's ears are not developed. They probably don't hear the problem. It could be they won't hear the problem until a year later. Who knows? They may never hear the problem. Regardless of what the tea leaves say regarding their future abilities, having a young mixer LOOK at the problem merely teaches them to trust their eyes over their ears--an ultimately destructive lesson.
As a professional mixer, one of my most important jobs is to take the opinions of many, the producer, the band, the A&R rep, the band manager, the girlfriend, you name it; and push them towards some kind of consensus. That requires diplomacy, and an ability to express clear, precise and logical arguments as to why I’ve made certain decisions in a mix. Why did I mute the tambourine in the verse? Because it reduces the amount of lift in the chorus. Why did I make that guitar so loud in the B-section? Because it helps to push the listener forward. Why did I mute the clave entirely? Because it makes me move the wrong way.
Opinions.
But opinions that are meant to either convince or force counter-opinions that must be well argued. A good argument could certainly convince me that I’ve gone down the wrong path in my mix. Perhaps the producer wants the listener to move precisely the way I argued against. That’s fine, so long as I am keeping changes focused on purposeful disagreements. There is nothing worse than trying to fix some unknown and undetermined problem for a person that isn't sure what they are feeling. You can pretty much kiss a decent mix goodbye if you don't prevent that from happening in the first place. But I digress.
Music is always LISTENED to by the end consumer. For that reason, all decisions should be made by listening, not by looking. Encouraging engineers to use their eyes is counter to the end game.
I say, we as mixers should use your ears LIKE they were our eyes. Not use our eyes to validate our ears. Avoiding visual cues takes practice, discipline, and a willingness to put our trust in a less dominant sense. Visualizing is good, but relying on meters and waveforms to make sonic decisions only serves to undermine that trust in our most important tool. Our ears.
Mixerman
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noisedude
New member
I can understand each of the things Ed wrote in the context in which he wrote them. I can also understand the advice to the contrary as a general rule. Most people will end up using a hybrid set of techniques and approaches and, as long as it ends up sounding how they wanted it to, the means are perhaps somewhat less important!
What interests and excited me more, though, is that my prank to wind Ed up might just result in some genuinely interesting discussions to read on this website, where more recently the debates have been less than stimulating. What brought me to this forum was the prospect of genuinely knowledgable and talented people sharing their experience and advice with people starting out, like myself. But in recent time it's been like special school, wading through thread after thread duking it out over the best cheaper-than-Behringer mini-mixer and similar pointless gear conversations.
Who knows .... Ed might even find there's something in it to interest him again. I'd quite like that, even though I do enjoy him prodding egos and winding people up for no good reason. Kinda a guilty pleasure.
What interests and excited me more, though, is that my prank to wind Ed up might just result in some genuinely interesting discussions to read on this website, where more recently the debates have been less than stimulating. What brought me to this forum was the prospect of genuinely knowledgable and talented people sharing their experience and advice with people starting out, like myself. But in recent time it's been like special school, wading through thread after thread duking it out over the best cheaper-than-Behringer mini-mixer and similar pointless gear conversations.
Who knows .... Ed might even find there's something in it to interest him again. I'd quite like that, even though I do enjoy him prodding egos and winding people up for no good reason. Kinda a guilty pleasure.
mshilarious
Banned
Mixerman said:
This is true. I have worked entire days wearing earmuffs. Fortunately I was farming and not mixing
I like to remain inquisitive. If my eyes don't agree with my ears, then I keep searching until I figure out why. Normally it's an eye problem, but not always.
I also have to deal with impairment of both senses. I wear glasses, but they don't make those for ears
mshilarious
Banned
snow lizard said:
Meh . . . only -9dBRMS. We've done that without compression
grn
Well-known member
a lot of what is on this thread is completely useless, if you track your recordings correctly, all you'll need to do is adjust the volume.
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Ah, if only it was that simple.grn said:
bigwillz24
New member
mshilarious said:I also have to deal with impairment of both senses. I wear glasses, but they don't make those for ears
Uhmmmm.... they're called hearing aides.
mshilarious
Banned
bigwillz24 said:Uhmmmm.... they're called hearing aides.
They don't work the same way. Hearing aids are only designed for speech recognition; they are hardly hi-fi. When you go to an audiologist with tinnitus, they basically tell you there is nothing they can do
They don't normally even test above 8kHz.
bigwillz24
New member
mshilarious said:They don't work the same way. Hearing aids are only designed for speech recognition; they are hardly hi-fi. When you go to an audiologist with tinnitus, they basically tell you there is nothing they can do
Man it was a joke... Thanks for making me turn down my music though...
mshilarious
Banned
bigwillz24 said:
I tell you dude that's what bites . . . I have no idea why I have tinnitus . . . not that many loud shows for me
The doctor asked me if I'd been in the Army because I had a textbook case of rifleman's ear . . . I've never shot a gun in my life Better luck to y'all
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
noisedude said:... wading through thread after thread duking it out over the best cheaper-than-Behringer mini-mixer and similar pointless gear conversations.
What is and isn't a pointless gear conversation is relative, douchebag.
giraffe
i love negative rep
mshilarious said:They don't work the same way. Hearing aids are only designed for speech recognition; they are hardly hi-fi. When you go to an audiologist with tinnitus, they basically tell you there is nothing they can do
yes, i too turned down the music when i read this
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Ohmygod, the first rational post! Dude, that's simple and utter brilliance. If only we could find a way to bottle it & sell it to these jackasses!grn said:
I mean dumasses!
jmorris
New member
can someone explain
how the pissing match started here (I think) betwen Bear and Sonusman? I think I rememeber Sonusman and the guy with the Ghost board and thought all other boards are crap.
how the pissing match started here (I think) betwen Bear and Sonusman?
I think I rememeber Sonusman and the guy with the Ghost board and thought all other boards are crap.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
So what you're suggesting Ed, is that Mixerman's input here is going to be too far advanced for "simple home-recordists" to grasp or to find useful? How kind of you to watch out for their "limited abilities" like that....UB802 said:
Blue Bear Sound
New member
YOU said it... I didn't........UB802 said:
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PD9L
Banned
Blue Bear Sound said:YOU said it... I didn't........
Dude, are you talking to yourself of something? Seeing cyber ghosts? What?
Mixerman
New member
UB802 said:
To me, that sounds like the guy needed more compression on his kik drum, or perhaps the whole mix. That WOULD fix the problem. Wouldn't it?
As to the accusation that I am not "relating" to the average home recordist. What's not to relate too? They want their records to sound good, don't they? Isn't that why they come here. To get some advice on how to make their record sound better? I mean, here you're telling them to look at a waveform to prove that the kik drum is too loud. But if they bring it down based on that little look-see, then they won't hear some of the kiks, which is probably why they made it too loud in the first place. Personally, I think it's better just to tell them how to fix it, and why.
"You need to get the level of your mix up. Your kik drum is troo dynamic, and you should put a healthy dose of comression on it and possibly the entire mix."
I don't know. I think I'm relating just fine.
Maybe we just have different "styles."
Mixerman