mixing earphones?

B

BobHaymond

New member
I plan to build MIDI rhythm tracks and add live audio [ tenor & vibes ]. So as I understand the process I'll need earphones to to hear the rhythm while I play and record. As I don't seem to have the exchecker for monitors at the moment, I plan to start learning the mixing process with earphones. Would the earphones for these two processes be different? In either case, what are the good choices for earphones. TIA for any consideration.
 
Friends don't let friends mix with headphones...

Every time I try to mix with headphones, the results are horrible!!! I've tried with 2 different sets of headphones. I've got monitors, but my studio loft is above my bedroom, so the monitors get switched off when the wife goes to bed.

All my "headphone mixing" (I still do it, in the interest of time) gets checked the next day when I can power up the monitors again.

Not that you CAN'T do it, you can. But you'd be crippling yourself.

Headphones for tracking/recording are pretty much standard. If you're tracking vocals, or using a microphone to record your instrument, you'll want a closed-ear type headphone, to prevent leakage of the monitoring sounds into the recording you are making.

Queue
 
I'm not exaggerating in the least when I tell you you won't learn ANYTHING by mixing with headphones instead of monitors.

There is no way around it - you absolutely, positively need to learn to mix using monitors. Headphone mixes do not translate in any shape or form to speakers, so what you learn in terms of balances and tonal shaping for your mixes via headphones, you will have to unlearn and re-learn for monitor mixing.

Monitor mixes, however, translate without any difficulty to headphones.......

Bruce
 
Bruce, Bruce Bruce......if you read the latest issue of Gidge Production's Quarterly, you would have read the article where I perfected the art of mixing with headphones in a way that will translate when listening on speakers......

1) mix as you normally would with headphones....

2) put the mix in your home stereo....

3) pick up one speaker and hold it directly to your left ear....

4) take the other speaker and hold it up directly to your right ear....

5) viola! amazing,yes?.....

this technique needs some modifications for other listening devices, such as your car stereo...but youll have to subscribe to get that.....
 
Ha! Doh!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah... I should have thought of that............

OK... How much to subscribe, Gidge... I obviously need your insight!!!

:D

Bruce
 
Yo mixing with cans:]

Nay! Even I know that before Bruce said anything....the can environment is very good if you use good cans; however, mixing down to whatever, you need to hear what the monitors hear. Strange analogy but it is true, since monitors can't really hear.

Cans give you some "better" fidelity due to the closeness of the sound to the ear drum; thus, you get fooled into thinking that the drums are loud enough, when, often, they are not loud enough.
[Depending on what you are seeking.]

So, do yourself a favor, go to Canada, listen to Bruce's set-up, pay him his fee, and come back ready to mix.



Green Hornet:D :cool:
 
not so fast...not so fast... :)

this is a pretty interesting concept...removing all of a rooms deficiencies results in poor mixes...mixing with them results in good mixes...hum...

lets see...just which of a room's deficiencies add to it's greatness...all...some...none...

i contend that a really good pair of Headphones that you know and understand well is your best friend and tool for a good mix, short of having an acoustically perfect mix room (zone). i contend that very good mixes can be created with headphones as the main monitoring source while utilizing the speaker as confirmation. normally you'll do it the other way around. but, you have to know the headphone and know it well!

lets analyze the room for a moment. we know for sure that the following affect what you hear:

early reflections (first reflection: desk celing, floor and side walls)
reflections (axial, tangential and oblique)
room modes
lack of diffusion
lack of or too much absorption
room volume or lack of
room shape (x,y,z)
room surface textures
room furnishings
speaker placement
speaker type (assume quality speakers)
others...

now which of these support "positively" and which support "negatively":

it's well established that early reflections, room modes, room shape, room volume and speaker placement support negatively and in most home studios to the detriment of a quality mix if left to their own devices.

it's well established that room furnishings, speaker placement and room surface textures can go either way but probably primarily support negatively.

all this is especially true for small home studios, as the smaller the listening room, the more each of the above negative supports affect the listener's sound field (or lack of). so how do all of these negative supports add to the quality of your mix? they don't! on the other hand, headphones create sound fields that are virtually free from all of these negative supports. so how does this lead to a bad mix? it doesn't!!! you're just not familiar enough the the phones sound field. you just don't know it well enough. it sounds differently in phones and you'll subconsciously try to move the mix towards what the room sounds like. even with all of it's negative supports.

how many of us have the essential acoustic treatments: modal, diffusion and absorption. all working together to create a listening zone that is free from the artifacts. how many of us have reverb times of .3 to .5 seconds. how many of us have diffusers? i dare say none of us or what we do have is in the wrong amounts. what's the goal of acoustically treating a room? it's to create a listening zone that approaches what headphones deliver by default. a diffuse-reflection-free zone. so why is there a concensus that headphones don't work. i'm not sure but i believe it's just hearsay and limited experience using phones that you don't know very well. if you know the phones well, you can mix with them.

so now back to the question: just which of the room's deficencies add to it's greatness

i say none...

that's why pro-studios spend 10's of thousands of dollars treating their mixing room (generally a big room). why? to create a listening zone that has minimized the negative supports or that is diffuse and reflection free. why do pros not mix with headphones, because they don't need to. the pro studio mixing room (zones) sound field approaches that of the Headphone sound field. most home studios don't come close, so why not use headphones? i content: myth, hearsay and acceptance by your peers.

now on to another myth: headphones have to much separation. i say it's got the perfect amount. it can't get any better. it produces true stereo, mono and eveything in between, all at the same time and with detail. no smearing of the sound field, no early reflections, no comb filtering, no modes, none of the other negative support stuff. perfect imaging. perfect separation. your reference is clouded by your room and it's load of negative acoustic supports.

successfully using phones all depends on your familiarity with your headphones. know them and know them well.

-kp-
 
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Sonixx said:
not so fast...not so fast...

successfully using phones all depends on your familiarity with your headphones. know them and know them well.

-kp-
Click to expand...
I agree 100%, but most people have enough trouble learn how to translate mixes via monitors.... it takes even more "sound learning" to translate mixes via headphones.

And for a novice, I'd wager it's virtually an impossible task!

But, anyways - you raised some excellent points.

Bruce
 
Sonixx said:
...the pro studio mixing room (zones) sound field approaches that of the Headphone sound field. most home studios don't come close, so why not use headphones? i content: myth, hearsay and acceptance by your peers.

now on to another myth: headphones have to much separation. i say it's got the perfect amount.....
Click to expand...

Sonixx,
There is a fatal flaw in you're argument because you're forgetting one very important factor - crosstalk. Even in an anechoic chamber your right ear hears sound from the left speaker and your left ear hears sound from the right speaker.

This is a very complex time and frequency dependent synthesis which occurs both physically and psychoacoustically. You really can't learn this with headphones the way you learn the response peculiarities of your monitors. This is probably the main reason why mixes using headphones don't translate well to speakers.

There are 'auralizers' which try to simulate the sound of speakers in a room while listening with headphones. This might eventually be a viable alternative to monitors, but not yet. The problem is the shape of your head and ears has a great deal to do with how you perceive sound. Some of these softwares (or boxes) use an average HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function), but unless you fall right on the average they sound very unnatural. Dolby Headphone claims their system doesn't use or require a HRTF. It does seem to work pretty well as far as simulating the response you get with speakers in a nice listening room. But the imaging, at least to me, is still very unnatural.

barefoot
 
barefoot ...that's an excellent point and it's very important. i agree 100%.

but, in small volume studios, IMO having the benefit of positive support crosstalk does not outweigh the large list of negative support issues that are either not treated or mis-treated. if i thought most small studio owners would spend the time on treating their room that they do on the plethora of other activities, i would never have written the post, but they don't. small room acoustics basically go unattended.

while Headphones are not perfect, they're real close and they do solve most small volume studio room issues.

good point...

-kp-
 
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