Mixing Drums

X man Da Legend

X man Da Legend

New School Boom Bap
Please help I am looking for some tips to help my drum mixes. Right now my drums are really boomy and loud but I am looking to make them more punchy and crisp. A few good examples of the sonic quality I am looking for are Nsync's This I promise you, Christina Aguilera's I Turn To You, and Keith Murray's Christina. I use Reason 3 and Sonar. I believe I have good drum sounds and I know what I have is capable of what I am looking for but I cannot quite get what it is I am looking for. A sample of what I am working with can be found at www.myspace.com/Djkevwest the closest I have come to what I am looking for is on my page and is called Don't Come Down please help
 
X,

Even with all the details you mention in both your post and your sig, the most important to this question are left out, namely:

- How are the condition of your drum heads, beater, and (most importantly), tuning? get you drums sounding as good as you can - and as close as you can to the image you have in your head - before you even get you mics set up and you're more than halfway home.

- What microphones are you using/do you have avalilable, and how are you using/positioning them? All the gear on the other end of the wires will only take you so far if you're mics and mic technique are not up to the task.

- in what kind of environment and in what position in that environment are you recording the drums? Even if you're doing a lot of close micing, any overhead or other stereo pair mics you're using will be affected by the acoustics of the room in which you're recording.

G.
 
For the style you're looking for, you might be better off using samples. Hate to say that, purist that I am, but that music was made with samples, so to get a drum sound like that, you're going to have to use samples yourself.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
X,

Even with all the details you mention in both your post and your sig, the most important to this question are left out, namely:

- How are the condition of your drum heads, beater, and (most importantly), tuning? get you drums sounding as good as you can - and as close as you can to the image you have in your head - before you even get you mics set up and you're more than halfway home.

- What microphones are you using/do you have avalilable, and how are you using/positioning them? All the gear on the other end of the wires will only take you so far if you're mics and mic technique are not up to the task.

- in what kind of environment and in what position in that environment are you recording the drums? Even if you're doing a lot of close micing, any overhead or other stereo pair mics you're using will be affected by the acoustics of the room in which you're recording.

G.
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i use drum samples not live drums i know nothing about actually recording the drums themselves i record my drum sounds from lps and trigger them via my mpd16
 
zacanger said:
For the style you're looking for, you might be better off using samples. Hate to say that, purist that I am, but that music was made with samples, so to get a drum sound like that, you're going to have to use samples yourself.
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i have samples i use samples my question is what can i do to clean up my drum mixes to get them sounding closer to the examples that i have mentioned
 
X man Da Legend said:
i have samples i use samples my question is what can i do to clean up my drum mixes to get them sounding closer to the examples that i have mentioned
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The big problem with sampling, especially sampling modern music like you mentioned is, the drums are already compressed and limited to hell and back. :o

It's hard to take a drum sample from a recording that was EQ'd, compressed, yada yada yada, and make another quality mix from it. It will be dirty, muddy, and overcompressed at best.

You're better off spending money on samples that aren't treated, but recorded very well. Then utilizing EQ, compression, reverb, etc... to get the sound you're looking for.

This is solely my opinion, and my 8 years experience pales in comparison to Glen's 30 years or so.
 
i have samples that are untreated as well it doesn't really take away from my question. I also use compression to control the dynamics of my drums i don't understand why it would make my drums sound bad I use compression now and I don't feel my drums sound bad they just don't sound exactly how I want them to.
 
X man Da Legend said:
i have samples that are untreated as well it doesn't really take away from my question. I also use compression to control the dynamics of my drums i don't understand why it would make my drums sound bad I use compression now and I don't feel my drums sound bad they just don't sound exactly how I want them to.
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COP actually probably knows more on this topic than I do, because I deal only very rarely with samples; but it sounds to me like you got the wrong samples. The sheer size of the available sample library out there is such that - in my limited experience, anyway - you sould be able to find what you want without having to do a whole lot on the way of extra processing to it other than some basics. Have you considered just sampling the sounds you want from the songs you mention and using those?

There are, of course, the other usual suspects that may be influencing your situation; things like improper monitoring environment, for example. But there's a long way to go for that diagnosis.

G.
 
Wow those drums are screaming fake. The cymbal especially. I understand this is on MySpace with poor quality, but good samples wouldn't sound that bad. For a slow song like this I think natural-sounding drums with at least SOME dynamics/slight timing differences would give it a better, more mellow feel. Just my opinion.

You already have an answer to your question. You want your drums to sound like someone else's (which is good you have a reference).

Unfortunately, I try my best to avoid listening to Christina Agulera and N'Sync, so unless you can post a sample that best shows what kind of sound you're going for, I can only guess.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
COP actually probably knows more on this topic than I do, because I deal only very rarely with samples; but it sounds to me like you got the wrong samples. The sheer size of the available sample library out there is such that - in my limited experience, anyway - you sould be able to find what you want without having to do a whole lot on the way of extra processing to it other than some basics. Have you considered just sampling the sounds you want from the songs you mention and using those?

There are, of course, the other usual suspects that may be influencing your situation; things like improper monitoring environment, for example. But there's a long way to go for that diagnosis.

G.
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im not denying that he gave some good general information but not quiet what i am looking for. I think I found the information I am looking for on another forum but I am always open for more opinions. Simply put I know there is nothing wrong with my drum samples its not a matter of how much processing I need to do to them its a matter of what process am I overdoing and I feel in this case it may be some eq which is what someone on another forum kind of explained to me. If I take some of the sub frequencies out of my kicks it should soften them up some and give me a cleaner rounder more traditional hip hop sound I am going for in my kick drums. My drums are almost there and I like how they sound now but almost there and being right where I want them are two different things, know what I mean?
 
X man Da Legend said:
i have samples that are untreated as well it doesn't really take away from my question. I also use compression to control the dynamics of my drums i don't understand why it would make my drums sound bad I use compression now and I don't feel my drums sound bad they just don't sound exactly how I want them to.
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You're missing my point.

You talked about pulling drum samples off LP's. Then stated you liked the sounds of the drums from Christina and N'Sync, etc...

I assumed you were sampling those drums, trying to replicate the sound(My bad for assuming). If that were the case, you'd be sampling a drum that's been compressed, EQ'd, and had reverb thrown on it... Then you're essentially adding more compression, EQ, and reverb in your own mix, making the drums overcompressed, and extremely muddy.

Listening to your mix on myspace, I can't tell a whole lot as to what your real issue is. It just sounds like an overcompressed, flat sample, in a decently mixed song.

Your best avenue to great drums, is using high quality (that doesn't always equate to high dollar), untreated samples. That gives you the freedom to add compression, EQ, reverb, etc... without destroying the quality of the sample.

And I assume the advice from the other forum is also correct. You're not utilizing the EQ as you should. Roll off your kick under 30hz, eliminate the boominess, brighten the snap of the kick in the midrange frequencies, and fatten it around 100hz-200hz. Muddyness can be EQ'd out around 250hz to 400hz, especially on something you've sampled from an existing song.

Get familiar with EQ. EQ is your friend. Glen has a great Frequency chart you can use to help get you familiar with what you're EQing and why.
 
I meant I wanted my kicks to sound clean and punchy like theirs but I tried those eq tips and those did help some. With all things this will take more practice tho thanks for the help
 
Maybe you are using the wrong drum samples? The reason I think our collection is doing so well is because they are pre tweaked and are so easy to use. Check out this new audio demo that does solo'd drums and then adds the mix:



There are a lot more demos at the page but I can tell you that a lot of the pop mixers use samps because I know of quite a few that use Steven's. Getting the sound you are looking for should be easy with the right samples.

Joel
www.stevenslatedrums.com
 
Change of POETS said:
I smell spam.
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not at all just asking questions i read all of the responses and try everything even if i dont respond but i have asked at 3 or 4 different forums everyone has a different outlook on it
 
X man Da Legend said:
not at all just asking questions i read all of the responses and try everything even if i dont respond but i have asked at 3 or 4 different forums everyone has a different outlook on it
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Not you, man. The YellowMatter dude. Pimpin his drum samples.
 
Hey man, this is the main Yellow Matter dude here, nice to be here... forgive Joel for trying to pimp our stuff, although the thread is about drum mixing and samples are a major part of it these days, I have no desire to be a salesman here so if you'll do a search you'll see that I've contributed on unrelated topics and I plan to continue doing so.

Here are some quick drum tips that I'd suggest for crispness:

1. Do NOT be afraid of eq. Crispness lies in the 2-4k area, try taking a nice eq and cranking that a bit on all the close mics. Another eq move on the close mics would be to knock OUT a few dbs of the 400Hzish area. For snare especially, a nice high and low shelf boost can come in handy.

2. If you are hearing boom, it sounds like a source problem. Try slicing all the kicks up and fading them sooner which will cut out some of the decay. Now you can eq more low into them without ADDING to the boom since you've already faded the boom out.

3. Use slow attack, fast release, 2-4:1 compressor to accentuate the attack of the drums.

4. Knock all the lows out of the overheads, I go to about 350Hz, it'll tighten up your kick.

Try some of this and lemme know what happens.

Steven Slate
 
from my experience with samples (a decent bit of use), particularly drum samples, you really are not going to get it to sound like a real drum. its never gonna sound how you want it to.

soooo....

we can either buy a set and learn to play and track drums

or

get a session drummer to record it from the web.

or

settle for the best you can get from your samples. how about this; DONT over do any of it. if you dont need compression, dont use it! in mixing, sometimes less is more.
 
applying the right EQ, the right decay, the right reverb, the right samples and mixing in a proper environment will all help.

you might also try mixing samples. i.e. for a certain kick, have a traditional kick drum sample and maybe layer a drum machine sample underneath. try this with your snare as well, and mix it up for certain parts of the song for added dynamics

it helps to study beats, grooves and think like a drummer when you're programming drums. I program with Reason, too, and I'm pretty happy, but I'm going for a traditional "rock" sound. not pop, R&B etc. the hardest part is the fills and splashes...
 
zacanger said:
For the style you're looking for, you might be better off using samples. Hate to say that, purist that I am, but that music was made with samples, so to get a drum sound like that, you're going to have to use samples yourself.
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yup. Samples are used much more than people realize. Sampled drums don't always sound sampled if executed properly. (if realism is the goal)
 
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